Poch out?

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Poch out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 161 36.9%
  • No

    Votes: 275 63.1%

  • Total voters
    436
This situation now has a sense of sadness behind it, not even angry anymore. On a human level, I don’t want Poch gone, but given Levy won’t sack himself where else is there to go now ?

These results are generational. They are so bad that we will always remember them. The performances are so very inept that they will be used as the comparison for future bad results, the same way we look at Ipswich away in the early 00’s or people look at Liverpool away in the 70’s, Port Vale in the 87 season.

How this mess has developed is the most perplexing of things. So much there of the elite level, stadium / training ground / players - yet fail to turn up at a game in Brighton, days after one of the biggest stains ever on British Football in terms of results. It’s ridiculous and we are rightly being ridiculed.

Now, more than ever, we need to see some decisions, we need to see a plan and a direction, but I fear we won’t, because we never really seem to. Time for Levy to not be a fucking coward. Sort it out. Back the manager. He won’t.

Poch, to his huge credit called this situation many months ago, maybe even at the end of the 17/18 season. He said it needed to change and a new direction set, he was ( now with hindsight) totally honest that this group had gone the distance and needed changing. Levy reacted by signing no one.

I suspect Poch anticipated the board backing him this last summer and and yet they did not, again. They fucked about and delivered injured players, punts on loan deal and a 60 million pound midfielder whom is, at best, questionable. It was never going to be enough. Again the manager called it. Jack Clark was signed and Poch never wanted him. Sessegnon pretended to be a big signing, but he was not ever that. It’s awful really.


The coaching team got players who were not up to speed, and then as a result they are forced to play those players who they needed to move on. All the time trying to do the impossible to keep players happy who knew they are not actually wanted around anymore.

If players like Eriksen, Toby or Jan were valued they would have contracts that reflected their contributions and status. Yet tellingly they are still on deals that were under market rate 4 years ago.

I don’t think Poch is being too loyal, more he’s being forced to play those he has long since said need to be jogged on, he has no choice to pick those players whom are compromised.

All roads lead back to Levy.

Here’s something I heard this past week, the day after Ndombele was signed the club made cuts to contracted staff. That sounded ridiculous, but on reflection, maybe not! £1 spent = £1 recovered. That’s the Levy way Look at the stunt with the shirts that was reported, they don’t “invest” they use the money the club makes to invest.

Over 20 years now almost everything that Spurs have done under Levy has had an air of the cheap about it and it’s boring as fuck.

Some people counter the lack of investment by pointing at the stadium and going “ohhh”. But fuck the stadium. That’s doing us no favours and it’s all part of a wider land deal anyway, the football club was used as leverage to buy up cheap land and property. ENIC will clean up on property long before we have recovered from the sale of Kane.

And is that Stadium is even “our” home anymore? The football club feels like an anchor tenant in what was once our own stadium. When you are getting wankers turn up dressed in Fenerbahce shirts, caps and with flags in the home end during a champions league game then you really do have to question what this club has become ( fact by the way, it happened on Tuesday )

No one really cares, as long as the coin is spent then no questions seem to be asked, That is the Levy way 4th is cheaper than winning and as Dickens wrote, darkness is cheap, and Scrooge liked it.

Tonight, because I really actually do care I hope Daniel Levy feels as bad as everyone of us and wakes up tomorrow, like Scrooge on Christmas morning, and begins to sort this bloody mess out. It’s on him, not just the manager ( or is it coach ?)

To end my ( pointless rant ) It’s a fucking mess. And a disgrace and could end in relegation, but then “We are too big to go down!” ? Are we not ?

Silence.
 
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Honestly. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. Consistent Top-4 finishes and a CL final not achievements? With our net spend? With our turnover vs the other Big 6? Poch has done wonders, keeping us competitive at the top-end through Wembley and into NWHL. This place is just becoming a haven for armchair whingebags.
This argument that the players are so good that we should be doing better than they are, is quite mad. How can you divorce the players so cleanly from the manager in this way? How can any fan know, with anything approaching a degree of certainty, that Poch is not getting the best out of Eriksen, Dele, Kane etc? Or if in fact he's getting the best out of most of them, and they perhaps aren't all players who would thrive at any other top club?

I think we can all agree that Ranieri did well with his title-winning Leicester squad, but beyond that it's hard for anyone to answer this sort of question. Whilst someone like Fergie has proven he can do well at clubs of different sizes, we don't have so much of a clue with many of the so-called top managers today; until Pep or Klopp manage Palace/Millwall/Southend we don't know exactly how good they are. Even with Poch it is hard to clearly determine the answer. Yes, we might soar if we get rid of Poch and found someone else who is the right fit. But on the other hand, we might be getting rid of the best manager we've had in an extremely long time.

All we can say with any degree of certainty is that we can all see where we were before Poch and where we have got to. And for that you can't take three games, or even 15 league games or whatever it is, as a sample size. One, two seasons of poor results, then yes, maybe you're onto something. The irony is that fan expectation being so high is in itself a sign of how much Poch has achieved at Spurs. If, before he had taken over, you had said that 15% of people would want the manager out after finishing top four for 4 consecutive seasons, getting to the CL final, and then starting the season with two good results and one bad one (whatever the circumstances) and all this with zero net spend, or close to it, then people would have thought you were mad.

We don't have a crystal ball and we don't know what the right thing to do is. We have a limited pool of evidence and beyond that our opinions become the subjective ramblings of self-proclaimed experts who have little, or more commonly no, experience of working within a professional football background. The limited evidence says we would be mad to get rid of this man at this stage.

Questions I would ask those who want him out, has there been any manager, in the last 25 years at Spurs, that you have been happy with and wanted to stay? If the answer is no, then do you not think that the problem might be your expectations? And that this brilliant manager you dream of who will suddenly be able to deliver league and CL titles to N17 might be a little harder to find than you think?
 
8 games into the season is long enough?

Is this just willful ignorance at this point?

The only person mentioning 8 games is you. This has now been going on for 9 months, not 8 games.

We have lost the most amount of games in 2019 of any team in the Premier League. It's not an exaggeration to say this is relegation form. In fact, should those 9 months have spanned the course of a season, we would actually be scrapping for survival.

Your initial point also holds no weight, as we're having this discussion about a manager after 6 years, not his first 8 games (incidentally, in his last 8 games or so, we've lost to Colchester, lost to Brighton, lost to Leicester, let Bayern put 7 past us, lost at home to Newcastle, let a 2 goal lead slip to fucking Olympiacos & struggled against Southampton).

Just how much worse does it have to get for you?

I appreciate what he has done in his time here, but it's over. The relationship between these players (who aren't blameless) and this manager is finished. We aren't going to play our way out of this. Something drastic has to change, and unfortunately that is the manager.
 
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I don't want Poch gone, but any serious candidates out there? The manager is the most important component, and at this time we can't afford going backwards. It would be a massive risk stirring the pot, cos no one is a guaranteed fit. Maybe Southgate could be of interest, but I don't think he's interested in a club job.
Southgate would be a bad move.
 
When Liverpool lost to RM in the UCL Final they went out and improved their squad by addressing their biggest weakness with a world class player at that position (Alisson). We didn’t go that.
If Poch brought Alisson instead he'd find a way to bench him bring him on at 70 minuites and then play him at left back.
 
Who do they think we can realistically bring in that will deliver on the following:

1) Close the gap on the Dippers and Citeh. - Simeone.

2) Win at least one trophy EVERY season. - Impossible task.

3) Deliver exciting attacking football. - Ossie Ardiles (he did it before).

4) Get his tactics spot on EVERY single game. - Mourinho (he won't listen to anyone say different).

5) Give bland non-controversial press conferences. - Garth Crooks.

6) Be able to achieve all of this whilst working under Levy and the ownership of ENIC. - Ah I see, it's all Levy's fault.


Col_McCafferty Col_McCafferty I hope that helps!! :thumbup:
 
sammy-487717170-678x381.jpg


“Oi! Tottenham this time? Well, fuck me dead!”
 
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It will break my heart when he eventually goes, but I do fear the end is nigh.

I think that Champions League final defeat hit both Poch and players a lot harder than we think.

Perhaps it was the manner of it, or perhaps more the feeling of 'how on earth does it get better from here?'

After so many close calls, near misses and 'what ifs', all the stars looked like they were finally aligning for us to do something unthinkable last season, and then that godawful final took place.

Maybe it's no wonder both players and manager are struggling to get motivated to go again.

I love Poch so very much, but something just doesn't feel the same at the moment. The enthusiasm, passion, desire just isn't there, and even watching the FIFA awards last night he was stern-faced and sombre.

I think it's going to be very, very difficult to re-create the spirit and attitude we had with this team and manager, and that is truly heartbreaking to see.
 
I'm not a reactive sort. I've had a think about it, Poch needs to go.

I don't want him overseeing the re-build. I don't trust his acquisitions, I don't trust his ability to manage the squad and I don't think he develops players. There's no point him having Dybala. He'll just make him do double training sessions and tell us all he's not yet ready for the team.

He's been fantastic for us and I'll remember him fondly, but he needs to move on to another challenge.
 
Do I notice a minor shift in your stance, with this post?

Happy birthday, by the way

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I genuinely don’t care John.

We are garbage. We are fucking shit.
The manager needs sacking, and Levy can take a massive chunk of blame for allowing the cameras in.

Nobody wins this argument.

We are all losers here...the fans.
You feel sorry for Poch? I don’t.....he’s lost my respect, and if Levy doesn’t sack him, then he’s a fucking moron.
 
Threads like this have helped to turn the team around. It's the pressure the true supporters, those willing to say the difficult sentences, have put on Poch and the players, it's that pressure that scored so many in the first half.

Well done to the true, courageous supporters. The others don't have the guts to thank you. To thank us.
 
Poch out for me.

Man has been serving up shite for 1.5 years without being able to turn it around. We talk about players improving over time, Poch has been making the same mistakes and in some ways he's actually regressed.

Performances are terrible, tactics are all over the place, line-ups are questionable, can't motivate, always moody, can't manage in-game, subs are a joke.

Does anyone remember his stupid book? Has anyone ever pat themselves on the back for achieving nothing?

You may say, give him time, how long are you meant to give? Until players' careers are over? He has a weak mentality and we've had to endure all his moody quitting BS for months. Who wants to hear and live with that negativity all the time?

He's become a fucking moaner and an excuse factory.

I'm not for getting rid of a squad that should be challenging for the title for a man who has never won a trophy and has shown nowhere near the quality or mentality to be able to do so in his entire managerial career.
 
Same here, poch is in danger of ruining what he has built, sometime you can lay the foundations but it takes someone else to build the house, I will always be thankful for what he has done ya spurs but he should go before we all end up hating him, look how pathetic Wenger was in his last few seasons, but let’s be honest if poch had won even half of what Wenger did we would all be very happy the fact is he has won fuck All, and quite frankly with this team I don’t think he ever will!
Wenger won lots. Lets stop pretending poch built something he went from 5th/6th to 3rd/4th hardly the most amazing thing in football history. He fucked up every semi or final he has ever been in. The man is treated like jesus christ by some spurs fans. He is a loser who is not good enough thats the truth
 
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