Dortmund v Spurs- Ropey League Last 16.

[Millbanks]

I'd rather just be Tottenham. We have our good days and our bad days but it's our support and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Nice words to say, but I've been at The Lane when the atmosphere has been fucking poisonous, for absolutely no reason.

Not to say it doesn't have it's amazing times too, because fuck me it's up there with the finest when we get going.


Whilst I wouldn't trade entirely like for like, there's something about Bundesliga fans in general that I like. A great example is when Stuttgart lost a game in the last 5 minutes due to an error by a teenage centre back. He was almost inconsolable at the final whistle, but the fans behind the goal called him over and reassured him. You would NEVER see that in modern English football. We'd sooner write him off as a failure. I think their connection between players and fans is much stronger/closer, that's what I envy.

 

[AlMacca_]

Fair enough you don't like them, I don't think Poch really cares either way, it's obvious everything is going to be thrown at the league.

Yep, just hope he pulls it off, throwing 3 cup competitions with weakened sides is a brave call

 

[therealITK]

There are enough arguments in defence of Pochettino and against him for his team selection.

The predominant one against was mentioned to me yesterday: Why bother against Fiorentina if we were then going to throw it away against Dortmund (whether he'd of done the same against Bilbao for example we'll never know).

The one that says 'It's only Villa next' has really pissed me off. It was only Villa last season at home and we contrived to lose that. It was 'only' Newcastle this season (and last) both at home, we lost those too.

The attitude of people when we have won nothing suggests that were we to win the league they'd become insufferable.

I was disappointed but the manager, the staff and the medical team will know better than us just who is more at risk of injury, who was in desperate need of a rest, and who might well be needed more in the run in.

But for Pochettino, Villa on Sunday becomes a must win.

The "It's only Villa" argument isn't as straightforward as you make it out to be.

Squad rotation is a must for any club that wants to target honours, hence, given a match against Dortmund and one against Villa, Europa League, Champions League, whatever, you would have to pick the stronger side for Dortmund. Unless Villa were in any way a threat to our position, which they are as good as relegated, there is no argument.

Yes, you cannot underestimate any opponent, but the team that went out for Dortmund should have had no problems beating Villa, even if it were just 1-0- and that's when they should have played.

Now, it's a bit of a clusterfuck. "Throwing" any match is stupid because there is no guarantee you will even win the one you were prioritizing. But, of the four matches, Villa were the weakest and clearly the best match to have a second team play. Or will we muddle through all four with a mix because of criticism and stakes and whatnot? Dier could have easily been rested for both PL games as opposed to the EL. He picks up a yellow against Villa and he misses Liverpool, if it's against Bournemouth, then Liverpool and one of United/Stoke/WBA (can't remember) which are all clearly more of a threat. So, there was an effective way to manage, Pochettino failed to do that. I hope we crush Villa, have a chance against Dortmund and win against Bournemouth- but even if it turns out well, it does not mean that a mistake was not made. Similar to Levy not getting a striker, even if we win the League.

After we exit every Cup, we have assholes saying "Good, we can focus on the League" and yet, we did no better last year after we were cunted out of the EL. This logic is retarded. Mentality is clearly not a strength of the team or the supporters- and that has to change contrary to what some of our fans are satisfied with.

 

[trifficTotnum]

lol clowns on here keep writing villa off as weak. They drew at against Leicester and city this season.They arent as weak as some claim. Same goes for crystal palace side who we were supposed to beat easily. as i recall it was another post europa hangover that led to our defeat.
Poch made the right call here 'cashing out' on the ropey league.

 

[trifficTotnum]

and its not just about rotating for sunday but the whole week, We have 4 games in 10 days.. ie: dortmund,villa, dortmund again and bournemout. Had we gone full strength i am pretty sure we would have been tired against nrounemouth and dropped points. Poch has been denying fatigue for a couple of weeks now, but he has finally admitted its real.Now we can chase the title with top 4 as a realistic chance rather than being lost in the wilderness of ropey thursday -sunday ropey league.

 

[Dannyboy]

The "It's only Villa" argument isn't as straightforward as you make it out to be.

Squad rotation is a must for any club that wants to target honours, hence, given a match against Dortmund and one against Villa, Europa League, Champions League, whatever, you would have to pick the stronger side for Dortmund. Unless Villa were in any way a threat to our position, which they are as good as relegated, there is no argument.

Yes, you cannot underestimate any opponent, but the team that went out for Dortmund should have had no problems beating Villa, even if it were just 1-0- and that's when they should have played.

Now, it's a bit of a clusterfuck. "Throwing" any match is stupid because there is no guarantee you will even win the one you were prioritizing. But, of the four matches, Villa were the weakest and clearly the best match to have a second team play. Or will we muddle through all four with a mix because of criticism and stakes and whatnot? Dier could have easily been rested for both PL games as opposed to the EL. He picks up a yellow against Villa and he misses Liverpool, if it's against Bournemouth, then Liverpool and one of United/Stoke/WBA (can't remember) which are all clearly more of a threat. So, there was an effective way to manage, Pochettino failed to do that. I hope we crush Villa, have a chance against Dortmund and win against Bournemouth- but even if it turns out well, it does not mean that a mistake was not made. Similar to Levy not getting a striker, even if we win the League.

After we exit every Cup, we have assholes saying "Good, we can focus on the League" and yet, we did no better last year after we were cunted out of the EL. This logic is retarded. Mentality is clearly not a strength of the team or the supporters- and that has to change contrary to what some of our fans are satisfied with.

I disagree - the idea that should is a euphemism for will has plagued this Club for my entire 35 years of support. We should have beaten Coventry in the '87 final....we should have beaten Portsmouth in the FA Cup semi-final, we should have beaten Blackburn in the League Cup final - and yet didn't. We should have finished third twice in the past handful of years but didn't.

The sentiment behind 'it's only Villa' is one I think should be reserved for Woolwich supporters and their supposed god given right to win everything. All the time.

Squad rotation is a hugely significant skill of a manager, and were it not for long term injuries to, at varying times of the season; Son, N'Jie, Mason, Chadli, Vertonghen and Pritchard then we'd have likely seen a team more prepared last night but each side has these obstacles to overcome. Then it becomes a case of where do you focus your priorities? This time of the season that becomes prominent more than any other - Pochettino has clearly said he wants the league (I wonder, although it's pure speculation, whether that is the thoughts of those who pay his wages too.)

As I stated before, I was disappointed with the line up but I understand it. And, as ever, the justification can only be measured in time.

 

[suburbanexile]

Weren't Leicester in approximately the same position as Villa this time last season?

 

[Boltonspur]

I'm not being an apologist and i feel fucking bad for those who made the trip (I missed out on points, if i'd made it out i'd have been so gutted), but this really is a case of dammed if you do, dammed if you don't... What were the actual alternatives ? Start Dembele? If he gets crocked because he is rushed back into 2-3 games so quickly, and is out for another 3 weeks, Poch cops a load of shit... Same with Dier, he didn't even make the trip. There has to be a reason for this, no? It's not some arbitrary decision. But, with the facts we have, there is more of a case for having started Dier than Dembele. Poch obviously REALLY believes in Mason. So we could have had Dier and Carroll or Dier and Mason and also start Kane, but again ,the Dembele argument. These players have been rested for a reason and if we end up losing any of Dembele, Kane or Dier (along with Toby, our most vital players?) chasing fucking Dortmund at Dortmund, then then 'this is our best chance to win the league in forever' brigade will totally lose their shit. I know it's rubbish, and i'm probably trying to make myself feel better, but i think it's important to get some perspective.

Agree with a lot of what you say mate. But if we were playing a second string, then we shouldn't have played Hugo, Toby or Eriksen, surely? Toby has to be in need of a breather too? Eriksen still covers more ground per game than any other team member- surely he could have had a break? Defo agree with the damned if you do, damned if you don't argument, but why play a mix & match team? It was a Mr Potato Head team really.

I dunno, & I'm knackered, pissed & probably contradicting myself but I was full of enthusiasm this time yesterday- even more than the NLD. This was a chance to test ourselves against one of the best teams in Europe rather than a domestic rival we are rapidly overtaking. It's a sacrilegious thing to say & I will take the coating but it's genuinely how I felt... until I saw the team sheet.

Maybe Poch does have it all worked out & this will end in glory. But that team last night baffled the fuck out of me. I felt sorry for them nearly as much as our magnificent fans. The fans held their own as always. The team just looked terrified.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Nice words to say, but I've been at The Lane when the atmosphere has been fucking poisonous, for absolutely no reason.

Not to say it doesn't have it's amazing times too, because fuck me it's up there with the finest when we get going.


Whilst I wouldn't trade entirely like for like, there's something about Bundesliga fans in general that I like. A great example is when Stuttgart lost a game in the last 5 minutes due to an error by a teenage centre back. He was almost inconsolable at the final whistle, but the fans behind the goal called him over and reassured him. You would NEVER see that in modern English football. We'd sooner write him off as a failure. I think their connection between players and fans is much stronger/closer, that's what I envy.

I see where you are coming from. I saw that video too. I would say I admire other supporter cultures, particularly Italy and Serbia...and Germany too, but not that I envy them.

What I'm saying is I love our support, 'warts n all'. To wish that people didn't moan in a poisonous way in the Paxton is a bit like wishing your girlfriend had bigger tits. It is what it is. People moan around me all the time, if it's particularly bad I'll take the piss out of them and we'll have a laugh about it, but I know they're Tottenham through and through.

At the same time, I do kind of agree with you, in that if the relationship between fans and players improved, I'd obviously be fine with that too. (Though I think it's by no means just the fans who are to blame for that not being the case...not that you were saying this).

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Kane still surprises me to this very day. He is unique, when you see him run (with or without the ball) he looks weird, I can't think of another word to describe him. He doesn't flow or glide but every game you will see him bring a ball under control beautifully, he takes on players and goes past them, takes a ball on the half turn, plays one touch to those around him. If there is ever an example of a player to remind us that we have to be patient when introducing other young players into a squad it is him.

Haha, good post and good description!

 

[Dilfy]

After we exit every Cup, we have assholes saying "Good, we can focus on the League" and yet, we did no better last year after we were cunted out of the EL. This logic is retarded. Mentality is clearly not a strength of the team or the supporters- and that has to change contrary to what some of our fans are satisfied with.

A glorious turn of phrase.
"Cunted out of the EL"

 

[paddyspurs]

And why bring Kane on at 3 nil down, absolute buffoonery.

"We picked the starting XI to try and win the game."

Of course you did Maurice, of course you did.

I agree he should have left gin out, but he's not exactly going to say "I picked a team I thought was going to lose so we can throw the EL and concentrate on the PL" is he?

 

[Dilfy]

I see where you are coming from. I saw that video too. I would say I admire other supporter cultures, particularly Italy and Serbia...and Germany too, but not that I envy them.

I lived in Serbia for 3 years and there is nothing to admire about Serbian football supporters. People from across the geographical range of the country choose between one of the Belgrade teams to support, local club fans only turn up when Red Star or Partizan come to town and those two clubs have a long history of involvement in very unsavoury right-wing political or paramilitary activism.

Sorry, I know it's off topic but the sentiment rankled with me.

 

[SouthStand Billy]

Class club my Fucking Arse, what a total bunch of Cunts.

The Stewards were the biggest bunch of Cunts i've ever seen, tear gas, pepper spray punching and kicking fans whilst on the floor. Punching Old men the works. Worse than Seville.
Our fans were well behaved but I wish everyone had turned on the stewards and kicked fuck out of the German Square headed Cunts. I truly hope every one of them Cunts lost family from our air raids in WW2.

On to the game, WTF was Poch thinking of? play a weakened side against this lot was asking for trouble. I would have rather we went full on in this and played fringe players against a piss poor Villa side.
It made no sense, earlier in the comp he played full strength against Qarabag then played the weakest midfield against the eventual winners of the EL.

Great day but spoilt by Wank Pot stewards and a light weight team.

 

[SouthStand Billy]

lol clowns on here keep writing villa off as weak. They drew at against Leicester and city this season.They arent as weak as some claim. Same goes for crystal palace side who we were supposed to beat easily. as i recall it was another post europa hangover that led to our defeat.
Poch made the right call here 'cashing out' on the ropey league.

Seriously???
Villa are the worst team te premier league has ever seen.. They are shocking.. They get rolled over at ease. The league doesn't lie.
If we don't smash these then we don't deserve top 4 let alone the league.

After last night, if there's one game i could pick it would be Villa. Their fans turn on them after 10 minutes, the players drop their heads just after kick off. 0-4.

 

[Bazali]

Mason and Carroll are both very decent, and I don't mind them as back-ups to the likes of Dembele/Alli. We just can't play a midfield of the two, it completely undermines Pochettino's tactics. We need a player that's able to drop in between the cbs, neither of Carroll or Mason are capable of that

Exactly

Either/or

Not both especially with Onomah, Son and Chadli on with our 2nd choice full backs

but do prefer Carroll

All the above cd be described as a recipe for disaster but we must trust Poch and I maintain that us not getting that penalty was crucial!
I think I said during the match thread, "What's the point of having an official behind the goal line?"
He was 5 metres away tops and did sod all!

Ridiculous IMO

ochsulk:

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I lived in Serbia for 3 years and there is nothing to admire about Serbian football supporters. People from across the geographical range of the country choose between one of the Belgrade teams to support, local club fans only turn up when Red Star or Partizan come to town and those two clubs have a long history of involvement in very unsavoury right-wing political or paramilitary activism.

Sorry, I know it's off topic but the sentiment rankled with me.

Went out there for the Partizan game in the EL a few years ago. I think there are some good groups out there among the smaller teams, like Zemun or Vojvodina. Yes it's true that I'm talking 400-500 people, but top quality support. Go and watch Zemun or OFK or someone like that play, it's basically just their ultras there (unless, as you say, they are playing one of the big two). Shit football, stadiums that are falling down but a small hardcore of fans who would die for the club.

Most people are gloryhunters I agree. Partizan and Red Star also very good core supports (not the gloryhunters). Everyone is right-wing because it's Serbia! I don't agree with their politics but I admire their proper supporters.

 

[Bazali]

Weren't Leicester in approximately the same position as Villa this time last season?

Yes they were but they had Pearson not an ex- Gooner twat that Villa have

They shd have stuck with Timmy

 

[Bazali]

Class club my Fucking Arse, what a total bunch of Cunts.

The Stewards were the biggest bunch of Cunts i've ever seen, tear gas, pepper spray punching and kicking fans whilst on the floor. Punching Old men the works. Worse than Seville.
Our fans were well behaved but I wish everyone had turned on the stewards and kicked fuck out of the German Square headed Cunts. I truly hope every one of them Cunts lost family from our air raids in WW2.

On to the game, WTF was Poch thinking of? play a weakened side against this lot was asking for trouble. I would have rather we went full on in this and played fringe players against a piss poor Villa side.
It made no sense, earlier in the comp he played full strength against Qarabag then played the weakest midfield against the eventual winners of the EL.

Great day but spoilt by Wank Pot stewards and a light weight team.

I take it that you didn't bring back some lederhosen as a souvenir then!

 

[SouthStand Billy]

I take it that you didn't bring back some lederhosen as a souvenir then!

No Mate,

In fairness Dortmund was a great place, the afternoon was excellent. Lots of Irish Bars for some reason. I just hate Cowards, the Stewards were only acting brave because the Police were near by and ready to jump in if needed.