"Yid" Chanting Part 2 - new poll

[Éperons]

"heathen" also means "unenlightened", "uncivilised" and "barbaric" and u are clearly none of these.

My point still stands. If someone would earnestly use such a term to describe me, I would understand that they are from a completely different world and probably we will never be friends / in-laws. To my sensibility, it's such an absurd thing to be called that I'd be too busy to actually be .

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Is this debate done now? As I would very much like to see some boobs.......

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

LegenDerry?

 

[sammyspurs]

The thing is, Im sure they would ban "Jew Army" aswell.

But wheres the offending word there...?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

The thing is, Im sure they would ban "Jew Army" aswell.

But wheres the offending word there...?

That's an interesting question actually. I don't personally see the word Jew in of itself as offensive in any way. I use it myself. It's used quite acceptably in the mainstream, include in the media and literature.

But, conversely, I have seen elder Jews squirm at the word. Maybe once a upon a time it had been used against them in a derogatory fashion, who knows?

 

[mouse]

Jew - Non Offensive - Yiddo for Life.

In my opinion words on their own have no “meaning”; it’s the understanding of the person delivering them that gives them context - "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

I’m proud to call that word ours, although I understand how it can be perceived as hypocritical and cause issue with regard to differentiating between its offensive and non-offensive use.

To be honest most opposing fans who want to have a dig at the Jews will find much more creative and offensive ways to do so than just calling us “Yids”

Although this bit in the Sparticus article posted earlier made me laugh!!

"One of the most famous stories tells of an away game at Man City; Citizens fans began chanting "We've got foreskins, we've got foreskins, you ain't." In response, a group identified by one City supporter as "well-known Jewish Spurs fans" dropped their pants and waved their "circumsized members" as the sea of sky blue"

 

[S.L.R]

Vaginaboob Army!

 

[YidoBuckler]

Vaginaboob Army!

Sexist

 

[Éperons]

That's an interesting question actually. I don't personally see the word Jew in of itself as offensive in any way. I use it myself. It's used quite acceptably in the mainstream, include in the media and literature.

I think the issue with 'Jew' is because it's a noun and, as such, can be used more as a slur than the adjectival form:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMzyWGHakeg[/youtube]

'crafty Jew brain' (to me) sounds far more offensive than 'crafty Jewish brain' (the joke here is that the characters are such unconscious anti-Semites that they don't even consider the perfectly neutral 'Jewish' and form 'Jewy', instead.)

There's a scene in Portnoy's Complaint in which, iirc, the main character's mom is trying to explain to him why he must marry a Jewish woman. The logic is that, at some point in their relationship, they'll have a fight, and the non-Jewish woman will say something like, 'you fucking Jew', and it will hurt him. Again, there's no comparison between that and 'you fucking Jewish person', which sounds comic (to my ears) for its inability to be as offensive as the speaker probably wants it to be.

 

[S.L.R]

Éperons, I imagine you sitting in a Parisian cafe, wearing black, drinking black coffee, smoking, and grappling with the intellectual matters of the day. Like Sartre, basically, except when we score you leap up from your laptop, shattering the ambience of the low chatter and steaming kettles with your celebrations. Not sure if you shout "yid army" though.

 

[kosherboy]

I think everyone's going a bit off piste with this, the fact is that "yid" is offensive to some people and therefore shouldn't be used.
Being called a "Jew" (as I recently was) is also offensive, like being called a black or a gay.

When I started going regularly to Spurs the "Yids" chant made me think back to being called "Yid" at school so I was uncomfortable with it. But over time you get used to it and it seems that some supporters on here don't even know why we shout it.

It's a bit like needing to watch some crack whore getting fucked up the arse by a pig in HD to get you excited, when all it used to take was a picture of some tits on page 3. We've all got so desensitised by the word that it seems the norm being used in the context of Spurs, when to some Jewish people I know it still makes them shudder because it is a bad word no matter the context in which it is said.

Like Chris Rock once said: "under what circumstances is it ok for a white guy to say 'nigger'?" - and I tried spelling the word but a star appeared when I submitted it. So it seems that word hasn't been reclaimed either - maybe in The Wire or to Weezy and co but never over here. Yid is just as bad a word. Where's the asterisk? There may have been an attempt to reclaim the word but there is still the backlash from racist Chelsea fans and the like 40 years on. If we stop using it now then they will forget why they sing antisemitic chants in 40 years time, just as some of our supporters have forgotten why we call ourselves the Yid Army

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

I think everyone's going a bit off piste with this, the fact is that "yid" is offensive to some people and therefore shouldn't be used.
Being called a "Jew" (as I recently was) is also offensive, like being called a black or a gay.

When I started going regularly to Spurs the "Yids" chant made me think back to being called "Yid" at school so I was uncomfortable with it. But over time you get used to it and it seems that some supporters on here don't even know why we shout it.

It's a bit like needing to watch some crack whore getting fucked up the arse by a pig in HD to get you excited, when all it used to take was a picture of some tits on page 3. We've all got so desensitised by the word that it seems the norm being used in the context of Spurs, when to some Jewish people I know it still makes them shudder because it is a bad word no matter the context in which it is said.

Like Chris Rock once said: "under what circumstances is it ok for a white guy to say 'n*gger'?" - and I tried spelling the word but a star appeared when I submitted it. So it seems that word hasn't been reclaimed either - maybe in The Wire or to Weezy and co but never over here. Yid is just as bad a word. Where's the asterisk? There may have been an attempt to reclaim the word but there is still the backlash from racist Chelsea fans and the like 40 years on. If we stop using it now then they will forget why they sing antisemitic chants in 40 years time, just as some of our supporters have forgotten why we call ourselves the Yid Army

Apologies for the neg rep. Accidental while I was scrolling in the app.

Corrected it using the 'rate user' feature.

 

[1882]

compared with "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz... Hiltler's gonna gas 'em again" and "Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssss" I think the word Yid is pretty small fry... Fucking get a grip people.... WE'RE not the far right neo-nazi bad guys here, and have nothing to be ashamed of...

The TWO racist FA Cup Finalists can sort it out between themselves... THEY are the ones who wanna take a gooooooooooooooooooood look at themselves!

 

[Smoked Salmon]

compared with "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz... Hiltler's gonna gas 'em again" and "Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssss" I think the word Yid is pretty small fry... Fucking get a grip people.... WE'RE not the far right neo-nazi bad guys here, and have nothing to be ashamed of...

This would be, presumably, because the lesser of two evils is no longer evil?

 

[zin]

So a third of votes find it offensive. Not a majority but surely enough to justify it not being used? I know this is a small sample but I wouldn't want to offend a third of WHL.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

So a third of votes find it offensive. Not a majority but surely enough to justify it not being used? I know this is a small sample but I wouldn't want to offend a third of WHL.

How about a fifth?

 

[zin]

So a third of votes find it offensive. Not a majority but surely enough to justify it not being used? I know this is a small sample but I wouldn't want to offend a third of WHL.

How about a fifth?

Don't mind if I do mate.

Oh wait... what are we talking about again?

 

[tricky]

The interesting thing about this issue is that it can never be resolved. No personal opinions can be 'wrong', as the most important facet of all of this is the issue of 'context', which can only be qualified on a personal level rather than quantified on an objective level.

For example, the philosophical stance of 'two wrongs don't make a right' is entirely valid if in your opinion it is a 'wrong' in the first instance.


For my two penneths worth?

Not that it matters, as I have not cast a vote as I can see situations and circumstances which validate all options.

ON one level I agree with something someone from TFC said a while back (might have been early podcasts) that the most significant aspect of it's owner ship and use by the fans in (percievably) the right context of 'definition of a spurs fan', is that it is something (and perhaps the last bastion itself) which the club can never 'market' or 'brand' to its own end.

But the caveats is that 'context is everything', more important than any single world or phrase, that and the fact that a group / collective / individual can never 'own' a word or phrase.

 

[tricky]

So a third of votes find it offensive. Not a majority but surely enough to justify it not being used? I know this is a small sample but I wouldn't want to offend a third of WHL.

How about a fifth?

I only do metric these days. What's that in 'real numbers'?

 

[1882]

I think everyone's going a bit off piste with this, the fact is that "yid" is offensive to some people and therefore shouldn't be used.
Being called a "Jew" (as I recently was) is also offensive, like being called a black or a gay.

Jeez, are you all three then?

When I started going regularly to Spurs the "Yids" chant made me think back to being called "Yid" at school so I was uncomfortable with it. But over time you get used to it and it seems that some supporters on here don't even know why we shout it.

It's a bit like needing to watch some crack whore getting fucked up the arse by a pig in HD to get you excited, when all it used to take was a picture of some tits on page 3. We've all got so desensitised by the word that it seems the norm being used in the context of Spurs, when to some Jewish people I know it still makes them shudder because it is a bad word no matter the context in which it is said.

Like Chris Rock once said: "under what circumstances is it ok for a white guy to say 'n*gger'?" - and I tried spelling the word but a star appeared when I submitted it. So it seems that word hasn't been reclaimed either - maybe in The Wire or to Weezy and co but never over here. Yid is just as bad a word. Where's the asterisk? There may have been an attempt to reclaim the word but there is still the backlash from racist Chelsea fans and the like 40 years on. If we stop using it now then they will forget why they sing antisemitic chants in 40 years time, just as some of our supporters have forgotten why we call ourselves the Yid Army

I thought that de-sensitising the word WAS the point... to neutralise its' ability to offend.

I get that for some - who have never set foot inside a football ground, and have no affiliation whatsoever with THFC - it will continue to be... but like flooding the market with newly printed banknotes as a solution to a financial crisis, it makes the money worthless...
likewise, the offence this word caused when ONLY used by racists TOWARDS Jewish people is trying to be nullified and cancelled out by mass use in a totally different context. It's been said a million times before, by plenty more intlleigent (sic) than me, but we all know the reasons the word is used, and we are fully aware the word still offends some...
then again, so does Jim Davidson, and HE'S still scratching out a living!