"Yid" Chanting Part 2 - new poll

[Smoked Salmon]

I think everyone's going a bit off piste with this, the fact is that "yid" is offensive to some people and therefore shouldn't be used.
Being called a "Jew" (as I recently was) is also offensive, like being called a black or a gay.

Jeez, are you all three then?

When I started going regularly to Spurs the "Yids" chant made me think back to being called "Yid" at school so I was uncomfortable with it. But over time you get used to it and it seems that some supporters on here don't even know why we shout it.

It's a bit like needing to watch some crack whore getting fucked up the arse by a pig in HD to get you excited, when all it used to take was a picture of some tits on page 3. We've all got so desensitised by the word that it seems the norm being used in the context of Spurs, when to some Jewish people I know it still makes them shudder because it is a bad word no matter the context in which it is said.

Like Chris Rock once said: "under what circumstances is it ok for a white guy to say 'n*gger'?" - and I tried spelling the word but a star appeared when I submitted it. So it seems that word hasn't been reclaimed either - maybe in The Wire or to Weezy and co but never over here. Yid is just as bad a word. Where's the asterisk? There may have been an attempt to reclaim the word but there is still the backlash from racist Chelsea fans and the like 40 years on. If we stop using it now then they will forget why they sing antisemitic chants in 40 years time, just as some of our supporters have forgotten why we call ourselves the Yid Army

I thought that de-sensitising the word WAS the point... to neutralise its' ability to offend.

I get that for some - who have never set foot inside a football ground, and have no affiliation whatsoever with THFC - it will continue to be... but like flooding the market with newly printed banknotes as a solution to a financial crisis, it makes the money worthless...
likewise, the offence this word caused when ONLY used by racists TOWARDS Jewish people is trying to be nullified and cancelled out by mass use in a totally different context. It's been said a million times before, by plenty more intlleigent (sic) than me, but we all know the reasons the word is used, and we are fully aware the word still offends some...
then again, so does Jim Davidson, and HE'S still scratching out a living!

So, in other words, how dare any Jewish fans be offended, right?

 

[Freudlyuchenko]

Salmon I know a black gay Jewish guy, they are uncomman I'll grant you that but they do exist

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Salmon I know a black gay Jewish guy, they are uncomman I'll grant you that but they do exist

Yeah, I know.....but, erm, what's that got to do with it?

 

[Freudlyuchenko]

Salmon I know a black gay Jewish guy, they are uncomman I'll grant you that but they do exist

Yeah, I know.....but, erm, what's that got to do with it?

You put it in bold, just saying

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Salmon I know a black gay Jewish guy, they are uncomman I'll grant you that but they do exist

Yeah, I know.....but, erm, what's that got to do with it?

You put it in bold, just saying

1882 put it in bold. Just quoted his post.

 

[Freudlyuchenko]

Well fuck now I look like a mug,

me =

 

[1882]

SORRY.... that was my bolding!! just trying to lighten the mood...

It's OK, I know plenty of Jewish Spurs fans... Jewish non-Spurs fans... and non-Jewish Spurs fans (does that cover everyone?) oh yeah, non-Jewish non-Spurs fans... who are offended by it... and many who are not.

I guess it comes down to one's personal 'offence tolerance threshold'

I personally find the image of the Pope giving Jesus Christ a blow job on the cross whilst being wanked off by a 95-year old junk-injecting Rabbi HILARIOUS... but then that's just me... I can see why some may not be as amused by it as me!

It's all down to personal opinion I guess...

 

[Smoked Salmon]

SORRY.... that was my bolding!! just trying to lighten the mood...

It's OK, I know plenty of Jewish Spurs fans... Jewish non-Spurs fans... and non-Jewish Spurs fans (does that cover everyone?) oh yeah, non-Jewish non-Spurs fans... who are offended by it... and many who are not.

I guess it comes down to one's personal 'offence tolerance threshold'

I personally find the image of the Pope giving Jesus Christ a blow job on the cross whilst being wanked off by a 95-year old junk-injecting Rabbi HILARIOUS... but then that's just me... I can see why some may not be as amused by it as me!

It's all down to personal opinion I guess...

Personal opinion?

If someone calls an arab a sand nigger, does the arab have an unreasonably high offence threshold if he says he doesn't like it?

 

[Thelonious]

what if that someone was Arab as well?

 

[1882]

SORRY.... that was my bolding!! just trying to lighten the mood...

It's OK, I know plenty of Jewish Spurs fans... Jewish non-Spurs fans... and non-Jewish Spurs fans (does that cover everyone?) oh yeah, non-Jewish non-Spurs fans... who are offended by it... and many who are not.

I guess it comes down to one's personal 'offence tolerance threshold'

I personally find the image of the Pope giving Jesus Christ a blow job on the cross whilst being wanked off by a 95-year old junk-injecting Rabbi HILARIOUS... but then that's just me... I can see why some may not be as amused by it as me!

It's all down to personal opinion I guess...

Personal opinion?

If someone calls an arab a sand n*gger, does the arab have an unreasonably high offence threshold if he says he doesn't like it?

Is that an actual term?? never heard it before... but yes, I guess SOME Arabs WILL be offended... some won't give a camel's hoof! That's what you get with freedom of thought... you could call someone by their NAME, and if they hate their name, they'll be offended...

sometimes, you just can't please everyone! I guess in years to come, the word 'Yid' will be as dated as 'Queer' or 'Nancy Boy' or 'Wog' (yeah, I said it...) time does a lot to the strength and meaning and offensiveness of certain words...

But of course, I get that Yid offends many... yet it won't stop many others using it...

 

[parklanephil]

The word has zero power. It is a word, nothing more.
However the word can be used to harm or cause offence and it is that use which is what should be fought against.

Some Chelsea scumbag shouting "fucking Yid" is designed as a hate term and derogatory. It is as offensive as hissing at Spurs fans.
40,000 Spurs fans united as one voice in "Yid Army" is a collective battlecry meant to unite. The word under these circumstances has a different intent and therefore meaning.

Very often the intent is missed in the ruck over the word. Some say stop using the word when it is the intent to deride that is the danger, and the hatred is what needs to be stamped out.

Just my 2c. I am proud to be labelled that way.

 

[kosherboy]

The word has zero power. It is a word, nothing more.
However the word can be used to harm or cause offence and it is that use which is what should be fought against.

Some Chelsea scumbag shouting "fucking Yid" is designed as a hate term and derogatory. It is as offensive as hissing at Spurs fans.
40,000 Spurs fans united as one voice in "Yid Army" is a collective battlecry meant to unite. The word under these circumstances has a different intent and therefore meaning.

Very often the intent is missed in the ruck over the word. Some say stop using the word when it is the intent to deride that is the danger, and the hatred is what needs to be stamped out.

Just my 2c. I am proud to be labelled that way.

That was exactly my point, if we stop shouting "Yid army" then they wont shout "fucking Yids". Maybe not now but over time it'll be as forgotten as "Nice One Cyril" (ask your Dad!)

 

[parklanephil]

The word has zero power. It is a word, nothing more.
However the word can be used to harm or cause offence and it is that use which is what should be fought against.

Some Chelsea scumbag shouting "fucking Yid" is designed as a hate term and derogatory. It is as offensive as hissing at Spurs fans.
40,000 Spurs fans united as one voice in "Yid Army" is a collective battlecry meant to unite. The word under these circumstances has a different intent and therefore meaning.

Very often the intent is missed in the ruck over the word. Some say stop using the word when it is the intent to deride that is the danger, and the hatred is what needs to be stamped out.

Just my 2c. I am proud to be labelled that way.

That was exactly my point, if we stop shouting "Yid army" then they wont shout "fucking Yids". Maybe not now but over time it'll be as forgotten as "Nice One Cyril" (ask your Dad!)

I think you missed my point.

The word is not offensive on its own.
The intent is offensive if used in a certain way.

Stamp out the offensive use ONLY.

 

[kosherboy]

I think you missed my point.

The word is not offensive on its own.
The intent is offensive if used in a certain way.

Stamp out the offensive use ONLY.

Some people will disagree and say the word IS offensive on it's own. Evra took offense at Suarez even though he says no offense was intended, this is no different.

 

[parklanephil]

I think you missed my point.

The word is not offensive on its own.
The intent is offensive if used in a certain way.

Stamp out the offensive use ONLY.

Some people will disagree and say the word IS offensive on it's own. Evra took offense at Suarez didn't he even though he says no offense was intended, this is no different.

It seems obvious to me that Suarez was intending to offend on the day, despite denying it now. He was sledging and we all know he was. As I said, I think you missed the point but each to their own

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I think you missed my point.

The word is not offensive on its own.
The intent is offensive if used in a certain way.

Stamp out the offensive use ONLY.

Some people will disagree and say the word IS offensive on it's own. Evra took offense at Suarez didn't he even though he says no offense was intended, this is no different.

It seems obvious to me that Suarez was intending to offend on the day, despite denying it now. He was sledging and we all know he was. As I said, I think you missed the point but each to their own

I think kosherboy's point is that simpy because a person does not set out to be racist and determines in their head that the use of the word is acceptable, that doesn't mean that offense still cannot be caused to the ears it lands on. I think that's what a lot of people why forgetting here. If, potentially, a fifth of fans going to a Spurs match stand to be offended, and the person saying the word knows this, despite saying it without intent to be mailcious, does the argument really fly that they should not be offended?

 

[parklanephil]

I think kosherboy's point is that simpy because a person does not set out to be racist and determines in their head that the use of the word is acceptable, that doesn't mean that offense still cannot be caused to the ears it lands on. I think that's what a lot of people why forgetting here. If, potentially, a fifth of fans going to a Spurs match stand to be offended, and the person saying the word knows this, despite saying it without intent to be mailcious, does the argument really fly that they should not be offended?

IMHO Yes, because we all have a responsibility here to live in a world together and intent is the key thing.

My parents are God botherers, should I not say "Oh God" because it offends them? Or do my missus in the butt because they think it is filthy?
There are always things that people do that we may not do, things that happen and are potentially offensive to us. I believe that we all have a responsibility here.

Of course I need to take things in to account and thing about what I say or do around others, just as they have a responsibility to take in to account the intent and meaning of a situation.

Would I call someone a "Fucking Yid" ?- Never
Would I sing "Yid Army"- Of course I would.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I think kosherboy's point is that simpy because a person does not set out to be racist and determines in their head that the use of the word is acceptable, that doesn't mean that offense still cannot be caused to the ears it lands on. I think that's what a lot of people why forgetting here. If, potentially, a fifth of fans going to a Spurs match stand to be offended, and the person saying the word knows this, despite saying it without intent to be mailcious, does the argument really fly that they should not be offended?

IMHO Yes, because we all have a responsibility here to live in a world together and intent is the key thing.

My parents are God botherers, should I not say "Oh God" because it offends them? Or do my missus in the butt because they think it is filthy?
There are always things that people do that we may not do, things that happen and are potentially offensive to us. I believe that we all have a responsibility here.

Of course I need to take things in to account and thing about what I say or do around others, just as they have a responsibility to take in to account the intent and meaning of a situation.

Would I call someone a "Fucking Yid" ?- Never
Would I sing "Yid Army"- Of course I would.

But isn't this a case of saying "well, I have determined it's ok so live with it." Even if we don't agree wiith their view on an issue, if there is a sizeable amount who are offended by it, isn't it worth still showing them courtesy and respect?

 

[S.L.R]

The recent comments put me in mind of something that happened over the course of a few months in my personal life recently. I learned that, even if you genuinely don't think what you've said is offensive, you're a better person if you temper your defence of your own actions with a willingness to try to get inside the mind of the person you've offended. And if it means altering your behaviour, despite not really wanting to, maybe it's a good opportunity to embrace a broader understanding of things and be better off for it.

 

[HyNdZee]

What happens if you find someone offensive for finding you offensive?