Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool | 6 Nov 2022 | KO 16:30 | Second Half Match Thread

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Yiddi You're being highly selective. So what that we didn't look like we turned up before Royal was wrongly sent off? This is our gameplan and to be honest against Woolwich that was probably the best way to approach the game, they look to dominate a game and press really high and aggressively for the first 20 mins of a game, so you allow for that, play compact, deep and narrow, don't let them in behind, let them blow themselves out and once the press drops then play a different phase of the game. Don't get sucked into the narrative that we have to go all out guns blazing from the opening whistle, it's a 90min game (people are so sucked into this narrative that they think we played like this in the first half yesterday, which just shows how fucking clueless people are - between the two goals we were comfortably the better side - but people talking about that half as us "starting slowly" again, that's bollocks!).

Against Utd we were dogshit and deserved to lose, as at no point in that game did we have any control of the game, from defensive phases, possession and into the attacking third, we were totally outplayed.

Control isn't always about us being on the ball, if we chose not to have it then we are still controlling phases as the oppo isn't getting in behind. An example of this and back to the Woolwich game, we contained them, their only effort was from outside the box from Partey which they scored with. In the margins and percentages of the game that's how we chose to set up and play if they are going to attack them let it be from outside of the box or at worse crowd them out inside the box and make it as low % as possible. The same again when we went to Stamford Bridge, we let them have the ball and they didn't create much (they have issues in this dept), perhaps we showed them too much respect (that's my feeling) but we were worthy of that point.

"Same old Tottenham" - Is just utter bullshit. We've lost just 6 PL games in our last 30! In the manager's 1st season whilst taking over from the worst 2 performing managers, we've had in 20yrs!!

Now, if you have an issue with the aesthetics of our style of play then that's fine to crack on with that. It's not great on the eye (although I thought that wasn't the case yesterday). But I feel there is context to this too, mainly because of the world cup and 3 games per week from almost the get-go. But our record under Conte shows how effective we've been playing this way (the end of last season was better on the eye also)........

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The aesthetics of how we play I don't like. I like my teams to have the ball and press high (I'm a full-blown Poch disciple) and my posting history attests to this. I was highly vocal on a) not wanting Jose at Tottenham b) and hated how we played under him because we were shit. However, people putting these two managers in the same bucket are clueless, just look above at the graph in case there is any doubt, Jose is a dinosaur vs Conte is elite and knows exactly what he's doing. (When Conte-ball is clicking it's also very good on the eye, for those transitional phases that is, it will still have a period of control without the ball and those transitions are developed by lots of backward passing as we attempt to draw teams onto us to create the space (but it's a long way off Jose ball).

Yesterday was a good performance and the result didn't reflect the performance, whilst hugely frustrating I'm hugely encouraged about the performance. It's also miles away from any comparison on the other games you mention and even better than the Newcastle performance in which we were the better team on the day.
Conan Obrian Applause GIF
 
Also a very good post Guido. This is a proper respectful argument that raises some very good points on both sides.

Whilst I agree with much of what BC posted, I think your argument has merit too.
Where I think the middle ground is, is that the players are being sent out with a specific game plan, as you suggest, but they're not executing it exactly as Conte wants them to. As BC stated, Conte himself, the other coach (can't remember his name), and even the players themselves have said they're not executing the plan properly and are being too passive.

This is what the WC and the condensed season is contributing to, IMO. The players may just have been told to contain and absorb in the first half, and counter when the opportunity is there, but they're in a more passive mindset than Conte wants. They're conceding ground deliberately, but on the back foot, rather than being front foot aggressive as they concede the ground. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here, but hopefully you get what I mean.
Thanks mate.

Again, I'm just guessing, going with my gut based on what I'm seeing. But I am confident that we are very deliberate in what we are executing.

I totally accept the point on the comments the players and Manager have made regarding the phases (first halves) when we are playing without the ball. I think(????) this is communicated because it's the narrative they have accepted to go along with. It only really gets brought up in a negative context when we've lost, so in that scenario, the response is "we can do a lot better", "we have to be".... blah, blah, blah.. When we've won it's easy and all about the comeback and "resilience and fighting spirit "etc...The alternative would be to divulge the very thing they wouldn't want anyone to know about (what our strategy is) i.e. you wouldn't expect a player or Conte ahead of the first game of the season and announce publicly what the strategy is, this doesn't even happen on a game by game basis.

I just keep going back to how we play, what I'm seeing. Is it a great watch? No? Do the oppo look like scoring with the 70% possession we are giving them? No. How do I see the oppo scoring against us? Outside the box, deflected shot, a mistake? YES. Will we respond? Yes. What does this response look like? Good all with the patterns I mentioned in my post. It's a clockwork, programmed, hardwired, repeatable and because of this is why I'm hanging my hat on it. If we were playing/losing in different ways every week (the Sherwood days) or even losing the same ways (as in the Jose days) then I'd be concerned. But maybe foolishly I'm not, I'm convinced Conte has this covered and is in control and the team are calm and together with him.
 
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For now but dropping points and leaking goals like a sieve.
There's been some dodgy performances, I do agree. But most of our rivals look flawed too. Things will look much better with Romero, Rich and Kulusevski back, and hopefully at least one quality signing in January. Maybe Son will remember how to play football as well

It's far too early in the season to be giving up hope.
 
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Stellini today on Spurs' style of football:
"I watch many games and in this last month it's not easy to find attractive football because many teams, in all the league in Europe, we are playing a lot, and you have to maintain the energy.

"I haven't seen many games with attractive football in this period, maybe only teams that haven't played in European competition. We've used up a lot of energy in the past month.

"In the last match I think we played some attractive football, it's just about choosing the time when you can do that in a game."


I appreciate I'm being selective regarding these comments whilst choosing to dismiss those mentioned by players and Conte in post-match interviews when we've lost, but I feel this reaffirms some of my posts above about us being deliberate in our game, rather than being bad because we aren't coping or dealing with the oppo or because we are bad at football.
 
For now but dropping points and leaking goals like a sieve.
We're in month 4 of 9, game 14 in a 38 game season and currently sitting in the top 4 despite not playing anywhere near our maximum yet and having a spate of key injuries to contend with.

Nothing of course is guaranteed but if you think we have no chance of top 4 based on the last few games then I think you need to give your head a wobble but you permanently live under a rain cloud so am not surprised.
 
Won't happen in January but we need a new keep...big Fraser ain't the answer, neither is the T-Rex. I'd love Maignan but can't see him swap Milan for Spurs.

Need 2 beasts at CB. Just a reminder that Skriniar is out of contract in June so Inter may want to cash in in January. Though PSG is mad keen on him so we're fucked. We missed the boat with Sonny's countryman, who's killing it at Napoli. One to keep an eye on for the future is that Kalulu kid from AC. That Danso boy from Lens is looking promising too.

How many of us would wet ourselves for months if/when we got rid of Sess and Emerson?! I'd love to see Spence given a proper shot (so not just odd Cup game) but it just won't happen with Conte, will it. Shame we can't bring that Udinese kid over til Summer.

He's had his fair share of injuries, but I'd defo be intrigued to see what a player like Fekir could do at Spurs. Would instantly become our most creative player, that lockpicker we're so desperately missing...and he can fight on the defensive end too, he's no lightweight.

Can we find another Kulu too? Napoli struck gold with that Kvara kid from Georgia. Signed him for 10 mil, he's already worth a good 50 after not even 6 months. That's what top drawer scouting does...
Yes good point not sure patrici looks beyond a few countries / leagues.
 
Yes good point not sure patrici looks beyond a few countries / leagues.

So far:

Bought from England, Italy, France, Spain....... Also had legit links to player from Germany, Portugal, China.... Sold to Netherlands.... Also linked to Kvara (Georgia)

How many is "a few" in your world?
 
Stellini today on Spurs' style of football:
"I watch many games and in this last month it's not easy to find attractive football because many teams, in all the league in Europe, we are playing a lot, and you have to maintain the energy.

"I haven't seen many games with attractive football in this period, maybe only teams that haven't played in European competition. We've used up a lot of energy in the past month.

"In the last match I think we played some attractive football, it's just about choosing the time when you can do that in a game."


I appreciate I'm being selective regarding these comments whilst choosing to dismiss those mentioned by players and Conte in post-match interviews when we've lost, but I feel this reaffirms some of my posts above about us being deliberate in our game, rather than being bad because we aren't coping or dealing with the oppo or because we are bad at football.
So are you saying that we are deliberately going 2-0 behind, or rather that is the intention from the club, if so that is scandalous from them
 
But that is exactly what is happening though mate, so they are clearly doing something wrong.
It's a football match, teams score goals.

Take a look at the goals we concede and my feeling is they are from a shot from outside of the box, a deflection (usually from outside of the box), or via an unforced error or a worldie. All low-percentage efforts or gifted opportunities (I'm generalising, I recall a couple that were scored that were well worked, but this is a gut feeling, I've not sat through and analysed each goal).

Teams aren't playing through us, ripping us to shreds. They aren't getting behind us, this is very structured, measured, coached. The way we play is deliberate.
 
It's a football match, teams score goals.

Take a look at the goals we concede and my feeling is they are from a shot from outside of the box, a deflection (usually from outside of the box), or via an unforced error or a worldie. All low-percentage efforts or gifted opportunities (I'm generalising, I recall a couple that were scored that were well worked, but this is a gut feeling, I've not sat through and analysed each goal).

Teams aren't playing through us, ripping us to shreds. They aren't getting behind us, this is very structured, measured, coached. The way we play is deliberate.
I fully understand it's structured, but when your conceding two goals a game, then it can't be classified as measured or well coached surely not.
 
Only the Utd game we were outplayed.

10 men against Woolwich away.

We were the better team vs Newcastle & Liverpool.

If we played like we did against Utd then that’s the time to shit the bed, but we didn’t, so there’s no need to.

All whilst having 3 of our most influential players out (Romero, Son & Kulu). Not just the effect of their absence but by not having them it limits our rotation options and preferred formation that Conte wants.
How many were toon missing sane with dippers. Every team have players missing at some point. The fact is even with said players missing we actually showed we could still attack and play fast. So why not do that from the off? Notwithstanding pool obvs sat back a bit protecting their lead. What it needed on our side was our coach showing some balls. Unfortunately he left them in the box. Said it before the 2nd tactics are forced on him and is not based on any great tactical genius. It’s just like manure under fergie who would throw the kitchen sink at trans except he’d put on as many forwards as he could.
 
How many were toon missing sane with dippers. Every team have players missing at some point. The fact is even with said players missing we actually showed we could still attack and play fast. So why not do that from the off? Notwithstanding pool obvs sat back a bit protecting their lead. What it needed on our side was our coach showing some balls. Unfortunately he left them in the box. Said it before the 2nd tactics are forced on him and is not based on any great tactical genius. It’s just like manure under fergie who would throw the kitchen sink at trans except he’d put on as many forwards as he could.
Don't ever recall Fergie managing a team when there was a World Cup in the middle of a season. I also watched many, many Fergie games where Utd won with almost the last kick of the game, it happened so frequently that they even gave it a name, "Fergie Time". In order for this phenomenon to even occur they would have to be a) either behind or b) drawing and thus chasing the game late on. Oh, that's a bit like us then!

I don't get what the relevance is to drawing on Fergie's time at Utd., what's the point you are trying to make?
 
I don't give a fuck about Ajax if they are good or shit, the fact is they played away and beat them just about a week ago. You said they haven't won away from home. Facts mate.

They also beat City TWICE this season so City must be fucking shit???

Stylistically we've not been a good watch (I've literally written that in my post so do you actually bother to read what people post?) but we've deserved every single point we've taken this season. We've not been fortunate or lucky.
Depends what you mean by "deserved" tbh.
we definitely didn't deserve the draw at Chelsea imo.
 
Only the Utd game we were outplayed.

10 men against Woolwich away.

We were the better team vs Newcastle & Liverpool.

If we played like we did against Utd then that’s the time to shit the bed, but we didn’t, so there’s no need to.

All whilst having 3 of our most influential players out (Romero, Son & Kulu). Not just the effect of their absence but by not having them it limits our rotation options and preferred formation that Conte wants.

We were outplayed before the red card vs Woolwich so let’s not use that as some lame excuse. We had about 10 minutes of playing football in that entire match.

Also were behind in both games & at home so you’d expect us to be the dominant team for large periods as the side ultimately chasing the game.

It’s amazing that we’re meant to be relaxed about these games because we were marginally the ‘better’ team in home games vs an Eddie Howe led Newcastle and a in a freefall can’t buy a win at home Liverpool.

2-0 down in both games at half time. But hey, we were better than them so Conte’s earning every penny of that 15 million a year. Meanwhile other top 6 managers are settling for 3 points in their big home matches.
 
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