Jose Mourinho

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I get what you're saying but I think it's safe to say that those who are judging him on this forum hence my discussion on said judgement is predominantly of the negative ilk. Likewise with the positive judgement, 3 months in and the majority not his players, it's still too early to judge for the long term Jose era and it's potential be it good or bad.

I defend his work because of the limitations and factually where we were position wise and where we are now. If people were going doolally for what he's done I'd still reserve my judgement but overall in a short space of time I honestly don't think he's done that bad. It's still early days however and I get that but in normal working life he's still in what many would regard as being their probation period. I don't no judge him as the second coming or a false dawn, I just see it as being a decent start to his career at Spurs early doors pal.

Sorry to but in but you are in fact judging him. It's just your judgement differs to say mine. Your judgement thus far is that you think he done well considering. Whereas I think he's done nothing to change my original judgement I held on him before he joined us.

Also, the probationary bit exits so judgement can be made on someone's performance within that timeframe and whether the individual is rewarded a permanent contract, released or has their probationary period extended so further assessment and further judgement can be made.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

 

[Joe Clash]

Always said that if I loved my exes as much as I love Spurs, they wouldn't be exes. And I wouldn't put up with the grief either!

One of mine (ages ago) once said to me during a row “well if you loved me as much as you love Spurs we wouldn’t be having this row”. I replied “Not only do I love Spurs more than you, I have done for much longer”.

And that was the end of that one. She was cute though. Nice tits, but ultimately I’m a thinking man, as you know.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Sorry to but in but you are in fact judging him. It's just your judgement differs to say mine. Your judgement thus far is that you think he done well considering. Whereas I think he's done nothing to change my original judgement I held on him before he joined us.

Also, the probationary bit exits so judgement can be made on someone's performance within that timeframe and whether the individual is rewarded a permanent contract, released or has their probationary period extended so further assessment and further judgement can be made.

Judgement exists and will exist on every level yes you're right Guido but I think it's fair to say that those saying he's done reasonably well to get us from 13th to 5th as opposed to those judging him for his style of play even though he's not even been at the club in the time it takes for the clocks to change is slightly different.

Philosophy takes time, it's hard to deliver especially in the middle of a very poor performing season. Even Poch struggled in his first few months, I remembers him saying that prior to the Kane deflected free kick/ last minute winner against Villa that he leant across to Jesus Perez and said it's time to pack our bags, we'll be getting sacked in the morning or something along those lines. 17 games into his tenure that was and look how things changed once given a little time.

When we speak about how Lo Celso, Ndombele or Gedson are progressing, we judge somewhat don't we? All I'm saying is that a definitive judgement on if Jose is right or not for Spurs seems far too early to make. I think there's a slight difference when it comes to saying he has outdated views compared to saying I think he's done alright taking us from 13th to 5th, if that makes sense mate. If you've got a leak coming through your ceiling, you don't spend your time picking out what kinda doilies would look nice in your den (fucking hell I think I'm turning into Jose you know!)

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Judgement exists and will exist on every level yes you're right Guido but I think it's fair to say that those saying he's done reasonably well to get us from 13th to 5th as opposed to those judging him for his style of play even though he's not even been at the club in the time it takes for the clocks to change is slightly different.

Philosophy takes time, it's hard to deliver especially in the middle of a very poor performing season. Even Poch struggled in his first few months, I remembers him saying that prior to the Kane deflected free kick/ last minute winner against Villa that he leant across to Jesus Perez and said it's time to pack our bags, we'll be getting sacked in the morning or something along those lines. 17 games into his tenure that was and look how things changed once given a little time.

When we speak about how Lo Celso, Ndombele or Gedson are progressing, we judge somewhat don't we? All I'm saying is that a definitive judgement on if Jose is right or not for Spurs seems far too early to make. I think there's a slight difference when it comes to saying he has outdated views compared to saying I think he's done alright taking us from 13th to 5th, if that makes sense mate.

Many of us were seeing what Poch was trying to do though in his first season, up to and around the villa game. The mood was far more upbeat as a result of that as despite some patchy results there were genuine signs of a system being formed.

The fact that Chelsea lost 27pts since Jose arrived has nothing to do with Jose, it has everything to do with Lampard. At the risk of sounding like a stuck record we've been outplayed in the majority of the games or large portions of the games under Jose, even in the games we won, we've been comprehensively outplayed and been lucky. It is this that's the fundamental difference where I am making any judgements on. The same judgements, with the same parameters I made when we appointed Poch. I'm not judging him on where we are or where we were in the table, I'm judging him on his ability to coach the team. On how he has us playing. Because I think this is important for our future success.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Many of us were seeing what Poch was trying to do though in his first season, up to and around the villa game. The mood was far more upbeat as a result of that as despite some patchy results there were genuine signs of a system being formed.

The fact that Chelsea lost 27pts since Jose arrived has nothing to do with Jose, it has everything to do with Lampard. At the risk of sounding like a stuck record we've been outplayed in the majority of the games or large portions of the games under Jose, even in the games we won, we've been comprehensively outplayed and been lucky. It is this that's the fundamental difference where I am making any judgements on. The same judgements, with the same parameters I made when we appointed Poch. I'm not judging him on where we are or where we were in the table, I'm judging him on his ability to coach the team. On how he has us playing. Because I think this is important for our future success.

Taking Chelsea out of it though, up until Sonny got injured no other team apart from Liverpool had achieved more points than Spurs had under Mourinho though. You have to say that ain't bad going for a team averaging a point a game for nearly a calendar year though is it?

As for when Poch first took over, he had a clean slate, a new season to go into. When Jose took over the we were 13th place, out of the Carabao Cup to a shocking loss against Colchester and on 4 points after 3 games in the Champions League. Mourinho was well and truly playing catch up on things. I can only assume it must be very difficult to take over mid season, 12 league games in in fact as you need to deliver instantly whilst trying to mould the team in your shape, which will naturally take time.

I adored Poch, I had and still have my reservations about Jose but we found a little stability with him, we pushed up the table and I started to see some promising signs. It's subjective mate what one man sees is different to what another does in this game but I started enjoying it again which is all I can go by. Losing Kane and Sonny derailed that for the foreseeable and this is going to be the longest time since Sonny joined the club that we go without both. Let's see how it all goes.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Taking Chelsea out of it though, up until Sonny got injured no other team apart from Liverpool had achieved more points than Spurs had under Mourinho though. You have to say that ain't bad going for a team averaging a point a game for nearly a calendar year though is it?

As for when Poch first took over, he had a clean slate, a new season to go into. When Jose took over the we were 13th place, out of the Carabao Cup to a shocking loss against Colchester and on 4 points after 3 games in the Champions League. Mourinho was well and truly playing catch up on things. I can only assume it must be very difficult to take over mid season, 12 league games in in fact as you need to deliver instantly whilst trying to mould the team in your shape, which will naturally take time.

I adored Poch, I had my reservations about Jose but we found a little stability with him, we pushed up the table and I started to see some promising signs. It's subjective mate what one man sees is different to what another does in this game but I started enjoying it again which is all I can go by. Losing Kane and Sonny derailed that for the foreseeable and this is going to be the longest time since Sonny joined the club that we go without both. Let's see how it all goes.

But we've been outplayed in so many of those games mate. In his first spell, I care more about how he getting us to play, more about his coaching ability. Not getting lucky against City or Wolves or whoever.

I would be praising him on taking us from 13th to 5th if I actually think it merited it bassed on how we were playing. He hasn't moulded the team into any discernable shape.

Do you think the way we are playing is at all sustainable or repeatable next season?

What signs have you seen? What games?

I've cheered every one of the goals we've scored under him and I've cheered every win, but I've not enjoyed any game we've played other than Burnley and maybe West Ham, although how we finished that game left a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[nigel6305]

Yeah, Ed Woodward will serve Poch the PL on a plate. I'm shitting it already. :avbshock:

Lol....well they already bought the player we and poch actually wanted.. deep in your heart you know they will invest more in their manager than we will. Even if Woodward is a knob head, united will show ambition in he market, yheg probably won't win the league for a good while yet, but it will still be way before we do

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

But we've been outplayed in so many of those games mate. In his first spell, I care more about how he getting us to play, more about his coaching ability. Not getting lucky against City or Wolves or whoever.

I would be praising him on taking us from 13th to 5th if I actually think it merited it bassed on how we were playing. He hasn't moulded the team into any discernable shape.

Do you think the way we are playing is at all sustainable or repeatable next season?

What signs have you seen? What games?

I've cheered every one of the goals we've scored under him and I've cheered every win, but I've not enjoyed any game we've played other than Burnley and maybe West Ham, although how we finished that game left a bad taste in the mouth.

I don't think the way we are playing is sustainable for next season but I do expect to see more of a settled looking team by then, with more depth, more new players settled and a new feel to the team after a decent pre-season after Mourinho has had the time to identify our needs.

Off the top of my head we have been 3 goals up against West Ham & Bournemouth, only to have a nervy end, gave Burnley a pasting, started to see some proper camaraderie between the players after the Man City game dug out results that at the start of the season we'd have probably lost. I like seeing the guys get their smiles back as I do think it makes a difference.

I expect style as a Spurs fan, i wouldn't have it any other way and whilst I would like to see a little more style to our play, our team were flat out zero on confidence and happiness prior to the managerial change, we were the epitome of a dead team.

I'd like more flair, more panache yes but I think we needed wins, not style to breed confidence back. Our energy wasn't right and wins breed confidence, Impersonally think learning that side of it a season a stepping stone was the smart way to go. We'll see how it develops but for the time being I'm happy plugging away for results. Next season and thereafter I would expect to se things look a little more Spurs.

 

[sammyspurs]

Jermaine Jenas used to get the odd goal like 1 every 8-10 matches. Winks scores less than 1 goal a season.

And neither are DMs

 

[Murphy]

Just joined to say Mourinho is a wanker. Get out and take your negative hoof ball shite with you you piece of shit.

Thanks.

I don’t think he or Levy are registered here mate, so not sure they’ll see your message.

 

[DTM]

So what does that massive percentage in favour tell you?

Given the fact that only 443 people make up the population at this time the 77% in favour equates to about 301 votes. In Spurs terms 301 voices doesn’t amount to many. I’d be interested to know what the outcome would be if 5000 or 15000 had cast their vote.

To answer your question it does not tell me a lot; I could only speculate; and given the high number online that “ root for “ spurs , rather than follow or support spurs... they maybe don’t understand the vehemence of the rivalry with Chelsea.

 

[Murphy]

The mutual respect is there I'm sure, I mean let's be honest Pulis made shit teams into consistent PL teams during that time, many of which have fallen away since he left them. You've also had players like Ibrahimovic say that out of Mourinho and Guardiola, there's only one he would rather play for and it wasn't Pep. It depends on different things as you know but I still think it's far, far too soon to be scrutinising Jose, that's just my opinion on him after being in the job for 3 months.

Making do with players that have been shot, regressing or underperforming for more than a year.

Only two players - Gedson and Bergwijn are his buys. He’s got to make do with the rest until he can overhaul the squad.

We all know it’ll go Pete Tong in the end. But fucking hell, he’s doing the best with the hand he has. This season is a write-off and damage limitation. Anything that happens from here is a bonus. Start again in the summer.

 

[John Thomas]

I think I must be too.

If Jose is still in charge at Xmas I give £50 to his charity.

If we get to a CL final he gives £100 to mine.

Wtf?

I've taken on you're bet of £50 that Jose will still be here at Xmas.

If he's gone, you pay my charity £50 if not I pay yours £50.


I then offered you a £100 bet that Jose won't equal or better Poch's miracle of taking a Daniel Levy team to a CL final. You know, when you pissed on my statement that Poch worked miracles

A different bet unrelated to yours.

SpiderSpurs . Are you taking on my bet, or backing out?

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I don't think the way we are playing is sustainable for next season but I do expect to see more of a settled looking team by then, with more depth, more new players settled and a new feel to the team after a decent pre-season after Mourinho has had the time to identify our needs.

Off the top of my head we have been 3 goals up against West Ham & Bournemouth, only to have a nervy end, gave Burnley a pasting, started to see some proper camaraderie between the players after the Man City game dug out results that at the start of the season we'd have probably lost. I like seeing the guys get their smiles back as I do think it makes a difference.

I expect style as a Spurs fan, i wouldn't have it any other way and whilst I would like to see a little more style to our play, our team were flat out zero on confidence and happiness prior to the managerial change, we were the epitome of a dead team.

I'd like more flair, more panache yes but I think we needed wins, not style to breed confidence back. Our energy wasn't right and wins breed confidence, Impersonally think learning that side of it a season a stepping stone was the smart way to go. We'll see how it develops but for the time being I'm happy plugging away for results. Next season and thereafter I would expect to se things look a little more Spurs.

But surely in order to have faith for next year you need to see elements of what he can do and what he promised to be demonstrated in this. That is why beating City or Wolves whilst being outplayed is still worrying. The underlying performance demonstrates there are deep issues at play.

I am more worried now than when I was when he first arrived. I expected to see what we are seeing now but I am alarmed that in the space of fewer than three months he's gone from:
JM: "having one of the best squads in the League" to losing TWO key players from that squad to now "I wish it was July".

A lot believe that winning ugly is what it's all about, what is it when we lose or draw ugly too?

Whilst playing with a style and panache is great but I'm not expecting to see this. I think that would be a tuff ask for any new manager that comes in. But I am looking for evidence of a more progressive form of football, even if we lose. I am looking for elements of coaching demonstrated with patterns of repeated play. I am now even left scraping the barrel by looking for evidence of coaching of his pragmatic style he's been famed for and I see no evidence of this!!

Surely there is a logic in looking at the "performance(s)" regardless of the result to analyse and look for indicators that there is indeed any coaching going on. If this isn't evident why would there be any confidence be placed in an individual to shape the future of the team?

 

[Joe Clash]

You come off as a bit of an agenda driven fucking idiot.

Come on John, your agenda is also clear to see. Mourinho can do no wrong in your eyes. You’re over doing it mate. He’s done nothing yet, apart from losing every big game we’ve had whilst playing the worst football I’ve seen since AVB.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Come on John, your agenda is also clear to see. Mourinho can do no wrong in your eyes. You’re over doing it mate. He’s done nothing yet, apart from losing every big game we’ve had whilst playing the worst football I’ve seen since AVB.

We lost against Man City??

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Wtf?

I've taken on you're bet of £50 that Jose will still be here at Xmas.

If he's gone, you pay my charity £50 if not I pay yours £50.


I then offered you a £100 bet that Jose won't equal or better Poch's miracle of taking a Daniel Levy team to a CL final. You know, when you pissed on my statement that Poch worked miracles

A different bet unrelated to yours.

SpiderSpurs . Are you taking on my bet, or backing out?

That's not what I offered.

 

[DTM]

We lost against Man City??

The way we’re going we’ll lose against West Ham United - dot on the cards!

 

[John Thomas]

We lost against Man City??

Forget that.

Are you taking on my £100 bet that Jose doesn't equal or match Poch's miracle of taking a Daniel Levy team to a CL final?

Or are you backing down?

I want this cleared up mate.