Jose Mourinho

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

That 'one of the best squad in the league...' comment was absolutely baffling to me. I don't for one moment believe he actually thought that. That's when the alarms bells started ringing for me, very early on. If you take out Celsco and Ndombele our midfield is totally sub par.
I'm going to struggle to communicate this coherently, but I'll give it a shot.

The fundamental thing that we've witnessed at Spurs is what can be achieved when a team is coached to play better than the sum of it's parts suggest. It's not just Tottenham take the recent example of Poch's Southampton, RB Leipzig, Wolves, Sheffield Utd., Southampton (under Hasenhuttl), Ajax, Leicester (under Rodgers) and Liverpool to name but a few.

These teams play a system that becomes their biggest asset, it enables them to compete at a far higher level than their peer group and go toe to toe with those above. It isn't reliant on the individual players. Yes, the better the individual's ability within the group the better the team (provided they too are playing for the team and not for themselves).

To look at this further the individual players in this cohesive, well-coached unit look to the outside like world-beaters, because they are either on occasion betting Worldclass opposition. It's why the football world were fighting over Schiderlin, who was thought of as one of the best DM's and why Utd spunked a fortune on him and then doing it again on Luke Shaw hailed as the best LB. Why Liverpool spunked money on Lovren, Lallana. Chelsea on Bakayoko and Drinkwater, the list is endless. But no doubt there will be teams eyeing up RB Leipzig's players as they did Ajax's recently.

Our squad is good, the level of consistency we've performed at is testament to this but just like all squads the players within them play out their own peaks and troughs of personal development and decline be that via the will of mother nature, injury, mentality whatever. Team dynamics/performance are also affected positively and negatively via the movement of the players in's and out's. And also the lack of freshness of ideas, methods of the coach if the team isn't being changed.

The whole thing about "quality" of individuals, however, is moot when teams that are not noted for the makeup of said "quality" start to outplay those with recognised "quality".

We live in a polarized world so heavily focused on Ballon'dor winners, 'X' is better than 'Y' and the moment a player gets media attention they become elevated into a god-like figure (this does also in part feed the players' ego and in many cases their performance levels but I digress), with every supporter at each club obsessing over their team selling, buying or not buy player 'X' or 'Y'. But what gets lost in all this is the team's fundamentally principles, it's philosophy of playing, it's system and dynamic.

The system that is played is the king. The players within that system that give life to it are transient, mere pawns on a chessboard. It's why we can batter Chelsea 5-3 with Mason and Bentaleb in the heart of midfield, It's why we got battered yesterday with a team consisting of Barkley, Alonso and Giroud. It's why we got battered by Leipzig with a makeshift defence containing a Chelsea academy player on loan.

Yes! Players are better than others and yes when the aim should be to look to incrementally improve when replacing player 'X' or 'Y', but without a system of playing you're fucked.

We right now are fucked.
 
I think it more accurately reflects Spurs fans in general

Where do you get that notion from?

If the stadium was full and 301 people had a voice, how could that reflect the view of the majority? And the stadium capacity is not even close to the number of Spurs fans globally. I don’t “root for” spurs and I’m not middle classed spurs either. I know absolutely nobody that is happy with Jose being at the helm. I said on another thread that I don’t accept him but it is what it is.

I know absolutely no one that is happy with his appointment and I’ve come to know many Tottenham in my nigh forty years of going; though granted I go very rarely today!
 
Last edited:
Good post.

I sat watching the game yesterday and thought what a load of sh!t.

Anytime we lose I am irritated but I just saw nothing to give me confidence.

Worst however is that I flit between feelings from game to game and that completely suggests no pattern of anything tangible and concrete .

Mourinho would expect to be judged to some extent because of what he has done in the past. He would surely expect us fans to see evidence of his presence. I am struggling to see that, notwithstanding the comparative points haul.

Whether we need 3 links as in players to bind it all together or 5 or 6 new faces I have no idea but we are not the best at anything at present and I suspect not even n the top 5 in any one facet You don't win things with those kind of stats.
A key underlying stat to look for is XG, it's not the be all and end all but it will be a trend that in a lot of cases so if the performances are sustainable. Our XG is woeful!
ERcXWBPXUAIKRS2
 
Mourinho needs to quit bitching. Yes i get he is annoyed he didn't get a striker and our only 2 proven forwards are out to long term injuries but he simply needs to crack on with the task at hand now and stop making it out to be some absolute impossible task to even register a shot on goal.
I also think part of Parrott not playing is Mourinho trying to prove a point as he does have that petty side to him.
 
Maybe but I always want to give any manager time. Let’s see what happens next season and if it stays the same then I’d imagine Levy will be forced to pull the trigger.

If he goes though it leaves us in a big mess and also it leaves Levy in a mess. What vision is left for the club. Our scouting and philosophy would seem very erratic. I hope at that point Levy finally accepts that we should appoint a director of football and that he is not a football man but a business man.
When he came in he set the expectation with his claim that he has spent his time away from management developing a new strategy and philosophy. Has anyone seen evidence of this? If there was then it was last seen in his first game against a woeful West Ham and Burnley, THREE months ago!

He's reverted to type, but he's "type" is getting us played off the park. There isn't any evidence to support him coaching his brand of pragmatic football because we aren't stopping the other team from playing as he is famed for.

Nothing, therefore, warrants the reason to give him time.

Flip the coin, when Poch first arrived we are patchy but the evidence was there. Hasenhuttl was in the relegation zone for much of last season and the beginning of this but the evidence was there to give him the time. Dare I say it, but Arteta at the scum is providing the evidence that he could be worth investing with time.
 


I really don’t understand what he is trying to achieve coming out with constant drivel like this every single time a camera is put in his face. It genuinely is just completely baffling. How on earth can the players have any confidence or belief to win matches against any opposition when their manager is saying stuff like this?
 
The CL final was a miracle, no doubt. We played mostly terrible football for the entire CL campaign and were bailed out by a few amazing moments at crucial times, mainly from hoofing the ball long to Llorente. The squad had run out of legs and couldn't play proper football anymore.

The top 4 finishes were not a miracle. Poch had Kane, Son, Dembele, Eriksen, Alli, Walker, Rose, Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, etc all in their prime. World class players in almost every position. Finishing in the top 4 with those players was not a miracle when you consider how inferior the likes of Chelsea, Woolwich and United were at that time.
Fine. That's your opinion.

I've offered to back my opinion up with a charity bet. Still waiting for confirmation it's been accepted though.
 


I really don’t understand what he is trying to achieve coming out with constant drivel like this every single time a camera is put in his face. It genuinely is just completely baffling. How on earth can the players have any confidence or belief to win matches against any opposition when their manager is saying stuff like this?


The chairman wanted Jose Mourinho FC - he’s got Jose Mourinho FC. :mourthumb:
 
When he came in he set the expectation with his claim that he has spent his time away from management developing a new strategy and philosophy. Has anyone seen evidence of this? If there was then it was last seen in his first game against a woeful West Ham and Burnley, THREE months ago!

He's reverted to type, but he's "type" is getting us played off the park. There isn't any evidence to support him coaching his brand of pragmatic football because we aren't stopping the other team from playing as he is famed for.

Nothing, therefore, warrants the reason to give him time.

Flip the coin, when Poch first arrived we are patchy but the evidence was there. Hasenhuttl was in the relegation zone for much of last season and the beginning of this but the evidence was there to give him the time. Dare I say it, but Arteta at the scum is providing the evidence that he could be worth investing with time.

Fair point but then let’s look at the club. The choice of managers/players/scouting does look a bit erratic. Let’s say your correct and Mourinho fails at what point do we say the solution is a top DOF with a clear vision.

At what point do we say the problem is Levy and the board and they need to be dealing less with the football side of things.
 
When he came in he set the expectation with his claim that he has spent his time away from management developing a new strategy and philosophy. Has anyone seen evidence of this? If there was then it was last seen in his first game against a woeful West Ham and Burnley, THREE months ago!

He's reverted to type, but he's "type" is getting us played off the park. There isn't any evidence to support him coaching his brand of pragmatic football because we aren't stopping the other team from playing as he is famed for.

Nothing, therefore, warrants the reason to give him time.

Flip the coin, when Poch first arrived we are patchy but the evidence was there. Hasenhuttl was in the relegation zone for much of last season and the beginning of this but the evidence was there to give him the time. Dare I say it, but Arteta at the scum is providing the evidence that he could be worth investing with time.

When José arrived he inherited a squad that largely was on its last legs and in parts toxic
Poch had the best of an excellent squad and won fuck all
Add to that the unfortunate injuries to three key players of a small squad

Judge José next January

Dennis I’m basing my opinion on the José popularity on people I meet, other Forums and this one

The majority isn’t always the most vocal

People who didn’t want José in the first place (fair enough) are continuing to bitch and moan and actually appear to be pleased when we lose to further their own personal agenda against him
It’s comparable to ‘Remoaners’ not accepting the Brexit result

If we’re still playing like we are now next January at the latest I will accept the criticism but not now
 
The chairman wanted Jose Mourinho FC - he’s got Jose Mourinho FC. :mourthumb:
Out of interest, where do you think Poch would have us without Son, Kane and Llorente?

Try to remember this is the man who created Kane FC, and took the guy to Tranmere and brought him on at 6-0 up.
And played him while injured in the biggest game in the club’s history after he hasn’t kicked a ball for 10 weeks.

I don’t ever remember Poch not having the option of Son or Llorente when Kane was out, so I’m interested in how you reckon he’d have coped?
Considering how shit we was even with Kane playing under Poch.
 
Out of interest, where do you think Poch would have us without Son, Kane and Llorente?

Try to remember this is the man who created Kane FC, and took the guy to Tranmere and brought him on at 6-0 up.

I don’t ever remember Poch not having the option of Son or Llorente when Kane was out, so I’m interested in how you reckon he’d have coped?
Considering how shit we was even with Kane playing under Poch.

And he brought him on risking injury for nothing other than to please the crowd who had shown up (Scousers) when Harry could have done with a rest

Absolutely ridiculous and typical of the man
 
And he brought him on risking injury for nothing other than to please the crowd who had shown up (Scousers) when Harry could have done with a rest

Absolutely ridiculous and typical of the man
Kane should have been at home with his recently born kid.
The injury ravaged player we have now is all the work of the last manager, rushing him back and never resting him despite having 34M of back up strikers doing nothing.
He even used Son over them.

The fan base applauded it:
“Kane should NEVER be dropped”

Yeah, well done there.
 
Fair point but then let’s look at the club. The choice of managers/players/scouting does look a bit erratic. Let’s say your correct and Mourinho fails at what point do we say the solution is a top DOF with a clear vision.

At what point do we say the problem is Levy and the board and they need to be dealing less with the football side of things.
I absolutely agree with that element.

I honestly don't have a definitive view on it, I could argue with myself in a phonebox all day on the pro's and the cons.

We categorically need a DoF, but it's the capacity of this role that I'm lost in as it varies from encompassing Everything football-related to scouting. There are also further nuanced reasons why we don't have one, I believe that's because Levy back his manager (Poch) by giving him greater responsibility (that can be argued as a mistake in hindsight but at the time when the Wolrd's elite is after him what are you going to do?).

Was Baldini any good? Was Comolli any good? There are arguments for both Y/N.

But my biggest bug bare right now is the decision to hire managers with a philosophy that's is in the opposite direction from what has just given us our greatest level of sustained performance in 60yrs! Why not replace Poch with a similar philosophy to playing, giving the new guy a platform to build on.

Now it looks like Levy has been duped by Jose spin about him spending his time away from football developing a new approach, if that indeed was the basis that got him the gig then I'm confident that Levy is already scouting for a new man.

The fact that he was duped is also a major worry when many saw through the spin and expected what we've currently got with this cowardice low-block mentality dross.
 
Back
Top Bottom