But you don’t need billions to beat Burton Albion and Chelsea. They want to win these cups....our manager doesn’t
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Indeed, managers and players come and go. We remain.
I wonder, if poch's attitude to cups was different, would he mange to consistently have us in the top four?
I agree we are consistent bottle jobs too, and the complete laughing stock of world football, but after the mid to late 90s this is still better.
I agree we are consistent bottle jobs too, and the complete laughing stock of world football, but after the mid to late 90s this is still better.
no Sammy , we see him as a form of "messiah" that has nearly taken us to the Promised Land but unfortunately for reasons far beyond his control will never get there.
I think Bale was at his peak when he was us (and to an extent so was Modric) but we still didn't win anything. The way to winning is a balanced team, not one gifted individual, IMO
I think we need to be cautious in relation to this so called cup apathy.
We have not gone out that often to a lower league side under Pochettino and this season everyone pretty much accepted the team that went out against Palace.
The issue for me is the manner of the losses in the key games, whether that be league or cup. To separate the mentality needed to progress in either is to miss the point.
On that I maintain it's game management and not having that one player who takes to the pitch, surveys it and thinks piece of cake.
As good as Kane is on occasions, he does not possess that kind of character. Only Alli gets close for me of the current squad.
The club is the fans, you're completely right. The rest, well that's your opinion.
Hmmmm.....
I don't think either were at their peak in truth.
Both became tremendous big game players.
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You need both really. Star quality and a strong supporting cast. Or incredible luck (Leicester). On paper we have it but it never seems to happen through a combination of reasons, and Pochettino's tactics are a factor within it, but stronger opponents is the single biggest reason for me.
Something that bothers me is the idea that 'we' need to win something for our great players. Kane, Lloris, the Belgian CBs, Son etc etc. If that's the case I'd like them to get their arses in gear and win something. Maybe they're not quite as good as we like to think.
Edit: most of that isn't in response to you Mrs P.
It's not that he doesn't want to win them. He treats them with the same level of respect as every other team. He makes 8 or 9 changes and rolls the dice until we reach the last stages. No Liverpool fan is crying themselves to sleep because they got dumped out of both cups early on.
Yes. This season has been tough, with several handicaps. No signings, unexpectedly no home, loads of injuries. The squad has improved but our teams have struggled. we seem to be set up wrong but each season Poch adapts slightly, adding a new style to the teams repertoire.
We do need new players, most notably in midfield and wing back. We must get those signings right, and I hope we spend whatever we need to. I hope a young striker comes through next season or the one after from our youth.
I think we will win the CL before the league title. We are hated in the league and there is a lot of recent history. In Europe we are freer (not a Brexit statement). I hope we don't draw English teams, that's our best chance.
We do need new players, most notably in midfield and wing back. We must get those signings right, and I hope we spend whatever we need to. I hope a young striker comes through next season or the one after from our youth.
I think we will win the CL before the league title. We are hated in the league and there is a lot of recent history. In Europe we are freer (not a Brexit statement). I hope we don't draw English teams, that's our best chance.
So agree with your last paragraph, the players have to take a big chunk of responsibility for their performances, Poch can only do so much once they step on the pitch.
But as I said above, do you think there is no manager on the planet that could win a domestic cup with this squad.
Lets be real here.....we are not talking about miracles, thats hyperbolic nonsense.
We are in our 4th straight season of being a top 3 club, and two of them we've played away.
Two things are going on here:
1) People are hero worshipping Poch
2) People are underrating our players
Im a little tired of people acting like its possible for a team to consistently stay in the top 3 with "championship level" full backs and central midfield. Our depth has kept us in it through, what 39 injuries now. Our cover has also been injured. We have played away for two years.
There is this, frankly, disgraceful mantra that we are shit, a shambles, and having a crap season. We are above 3 of our top 6 rivals with ten games to go, and people are acting like the manager alone has achieved all this on his own with Wigan Atheltic plus Kane, Eriksen and Dele. Be a little objective, you're an intelligent bloke.
The next level for us is the PL Title. Thats basically what people are saying we arent good enough to win, right.
So if the next stop is the Title, how is this squad so poor? Especially under the circumstances we've been under this season especially. You cannot believe in your hear of hearts that not one manager out there could have won the bloody Coca Cola or FA Cup with our squad and budget by now, yet can still finish top 3 for four years under the exact same restraints.
Not winning the domestics is down to the manager and he will be the first to tell you that they are'nt worth shit to him. Thats not even debatable mate, its on record over and over again down the years.
So if we want to demand the next level, and give Poch the tools he needs to win the PL and CL, the only trophies he values, then lets be clear about that.
Its true we need investment in the squad to achieve those elite trophies.
But then you are in a position where you are slagging off the club for not being able to compete regularly with City and Real etc. Is that a fair demand on Spurs? Really?
The other two trophies are not on Levy. And Im fairly sure we'd all be a lot happier if we had two FA Cups and a Carabou over the last five seasons dont you. Shame the manager doesnt feel the same eh.
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No because the title is in their hands with ten games to go. Would you care about the domestics if we were where they are? They've benefitted from it, we havent.
Its basically this:
We've done brilliantly in the PL over the last 4 seasons
We've improved in Europe, and made a real statement in the CL and built a profile for the club. Still wouldnt bet against us getting to the semis.
We've been really caught lacking in the domestics over the last 4 seasons, and have folded in the easiest ways to get some trophies.
Its just doesnt stack up that we can do what we do consistently in the PL, and in many a CL game, but cant win the FA Cup due to our budget.
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We may do or we may not but I am not too bothered.
We are up there competing against teams that spend way more than us, that’s good enough for me.
We are up there competing against teams that spend way more than us, that’s good enough for me.
Watch out everybody the Poch Police have arrived armed with their ad homien.
I think this a great discussion and brings up many interesting points. There are so many factors in play it's difficult to say.
Things such as:
Scouting, youth academy, transfer funds, players out, players in, rivals ambitions, luck, belief/desire, leadership and even our own managers attitude to win so called lesser cups.
I think it would be an easier question to answer in the summer obviously after we show our intent in the transfer window. One thing that always concerns me is the idea that we have second pickings when it comes to who we want to sign. That we wait for other richer clubs to take their pick and we go for lesser players as we can't compete for top talent. Yes, this is true to an extent and rightly so, I don't expect us to be signing £70 mill plus players but lets say we are after a player such as Brandt or Berge. Both young and on a lot of teams radars. Surely within our wage budget but we would have to compete with others on wages which would mean paying more than we want. The idea we should let others pick Europe's best talent and wait our turn is not an attitude that will get us anywhere. I should have perhaps saved this for the transfer thread, sorry.
I don't believe any team has to spend the millions city do to be successful. The players are out there. I think the only way a team such as ours can be successful is in the long term. I think we need to improve our youth recruitment and play the long game unfortunately. The way our club is run we will never go toe to toe with the big spenders. I fear the stadium cost will have a long term effect which will restrict what we do. We have to be better at identifying and getting talent in at a younger age. Make our own stars. I cannot remember the last youth prospect who we signed. I guess Foyth. These are the players we need to identify and bring to the club. The reason Ajax are so successful at developing their own players is they play their young talent.
I think there will be some money to spend but mostly from player departures. I agree with Ossie Wembley that a rebuilding processes is coming and again it will take time to bring it all together.
A long way to get to my point. Can Poch win trophies for us? Yes, only if he is in it for the long haul but it will take a long time in my view and maybe even his own. 5-10 years his estimate. Was he being truthful or trying to get a rise from the team? I hope the latter but believe he is telling the truth.
Will he be around in 5-10 years? I severely doubt it.
I am 45 so have been through it with this team of ours like many of you. I love where we are. And I have seen us at our best and most consistent under Pochettino. Things like beating Chelsea away last season seemed improbable to me before he arrived. I hope he stays and sees this project through. His target was Champions League for the new stadium. Hopefully we can achieve that again this season but with that target met it's time to set a new one of winning trophies and for that he'll need a board that will back him. I hope he gets it but have strong doubts he will sadly.
Can he win trophies? Yes, but only with support of his club and patience from us.
Things such as:
Scouting, youth academy, transfer funds, players out, players in, rivals ambitions, luck, belief/desire, leadership and even our own managers attitude to win so called lesser cups.
I think it would be an easier question to answer in the summer obviously after we show our intent in the transfer window. One thing that always concerns me is the idea that we have second pickings when it comes to who we want to sign. That we wait for other richer clubs to take their pick and we go for lesser players as we can't compete for top talent. Yes, this is true to an extent and rightly so, I don't expect us to be signing £70 mill plus players but lets say we are after a player such as Brandt or Berge. Both young and on a lot of teams radars. Surely within our wage budget but we would have to compete with others on wages which would mean paying more than we want. The idea we should let others pick Europe's best talent and wait our turn is not an attitude that will get us anywhere. I should have perhaps saved this for the transfer thread, sorry.
I don't believe any team has to spend the millions city do to be successful. The players are out there. I think the only way a team such as ours can be successful is in the long term. I think we need to improve our youth recruitment and play the long game unfortunately. The way our club is run we will never go toe to toe with the big spenders. I fear the stadium cost will have a long term effect which will restrict what we do. We have to be better at identifying and getting talent in at a younger age. Make our own stars. I cannot remember the last youth prospect who we signed. I guess Foyth. These are the players we need to identify and bring to the club. The reason Ajax are so successful at developing their own players is they play their young talent.
I think there will be some money to spend but mostly from player departures. I agree with Ossie Wembley that a rebuilding processes is coming and again it will take time to bring it all together.
A long way to get to my point. Can Poch win trophies for us? Yes, only if he is in it for the long haul but it will take a long time in my view and maybe even his own. 5-10 years his estimate. Was he being truthful or trying to get a rise from the team? I hope the latter but believe he is telling the truth.
Will he be around in 5-10 years? I severely doubt it.
I am 45 so have been through it with this team of ours like many of you. I love where we are. And I have seen us at our best and most consistent under Pochettino. Things like beating Chelsea away last season seemed improbable to me before he arrived. I hope he stays and sees this project through. His target was Champions League for the new stadium. Hopefully we can achieve that again this season but with that target met it's time to set a new one of winning trophies and for that he'll need a board that will back him. I hope he gets it but have strong doubts he will sadly.
Can he win trophies? Yes, but only with support of his club and patience from us.
Until Levy starts to truly back Poch with money to spend I'm not sure why some of youse are so self-entitled as to be demanding trophies or claiming that we can do better than Poch.
We're not the richest club in our city let alone the country and players go where they can earn the most money. Poch is always having to unearth and develop gems. Winks, Foyth, Skipp are three recent examples but before them it was Dele, Dier and Kane.
Other clubs buy the hottest prospects on the block or ready-made world-class superstarts. We currently can do neither.
People should be careful what they wish for. Poch may leave this summer and if he does it will mean the end of this current side and there will be yet another rebuilding process for us to go through.
IF Poch stays then of course trophies will come. We just need a bit more patience.
We're not the richest club in our city let alone the country and players go where they can earn the most money. Poch is always having to unearth and develop gems. Winks, Foyth, Skipp are three recent examples but before them it was Dele, Dier and Kane.
Other clubs buy the hottest prospects on the block or ready-made world-class superstarts. We currently can do neither.
People should be careful what they wish for. Poch may leave this summer and if he does it will mean the end of this current side and there will be yet another rebuilding process for us to go through.
IF Poch stays then of course trophies will come. We just need a bit more patience.
It didn’t seem like the city mercenaries were disappointed with the win. Mass celebrations for putting another trophy in the cabinet. I can’t imagine it would do our players any harm to sample that feeling. Winning a carabao cup won’t keep our star players if they want to leave for bigger and better things...but winning nothing isn’t any more likely to keep them here.
Poch’s Job is clear. Top 4 first and foremost on what he has to work with. He is doing a great job of that. But I make you right that the squad is perfectly capable of winning the lottery that is a cup final and we only need look at the unbridled joy that city players had when lifting the least significant domestic trophy before dismissing those competitions as small fry.