Tottenham Hotspur Versus Redbull Leipzig 19/02/2010

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

They were without THREE of their first choice of CB's.

Had Kane and Son been available, would we have played any differently? Evidence would suggest not. Yes, had they played they are more likely they would have taken half-chances better, capable of producing something out of nothing. But we would have still set up to be reactive, playing a low deep block and hope the oppo don't take their chances and hope we might nick one of ours.

Leipzig, on the other hand, would have played exactly as they did whether we had Kane and/or Son in the team. Unless we address this Jurassic football nothing is going to change for us and we will come up short big time by the clubs that are playing or are attempting to play a progressive style (Wolves, City, Liverpool, Southampton, Leipzig, Chavs) and struggle and scrap past those that don't.

Genuinely Guido, who would you rather lose:

Kane & Son?

Konate, Orban & Upamecano?

I like you but I think you've got a bit of a vendetta against Mourinho mate. Of course we'd have been different with the likes of Son & Kane available, I don't see how you can say that the evidence suggests we wouldn't. What evidence is that? Unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious of course.

On the flip side how do you think the game would have gone if Leipzig had lost Werner and Schick and we had to make do without Alderweireld, Vertonghen & Sanchez? We could have still used the likes of Tanganga, Foyth, Dier and Davies as CBs, all 4 could have done a decent job against what would have obviously been a far weaker Leipzig attack if the tables were turned.

 

[scott]

Guido, considering you have a similar take on the interim one perhaps you should take in the Getafe-Ajax game tomorrow. If you haven't seen Getafe it is a different 'defensive' paradigm to Jose's 'hope they don't take their chances' approach. It is quite active instead of reactive ie modern and not jurassic. I described them on these pages as a 90 minute cage match if you are familiar with the wrestling metaphor. They will deal with a fluid team quite differently to how Atleti did with Pool and light years beyond our hit and hope(less) style.

I am going to watch in hope of getafe falling apart in a defensive horror show. Getafe 0 ajax 5.

 

[prinmemo]

It's insane, especially considering his overall skill level.

The bloke is so error prone.

And we are not even slagging him really. The level of sillyness he has displayed is staggering, conceeding such moments at least once or twice PER GAME running.

And then we have other Spurs fans accusing us of racism. Mind boggling.

If he cut down these mental errors by 75% he would be a very good player

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Genuinely Guido, who would you rather lose:

Kane & Son?

Konate, Orban & Upamecano?

I like you but I think you've got a real vendetta against Mourinho mate. Of course we'd have been different with the likes of Son & Kane available, I don't see how you can say that the evidence suggests we wouldn't. What evidence is that? Unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious of course.

On the flip side how do you think the game would have gone is Leipzig had lost Werner and Schick and we had to make do without Alderweireld, Vertonghen & Sanchez? We could have still used the likes of Foyth, Dier and Davies as CBs, all 3 could have done a decent job against what would have obviously been a far weaker Leipzig attack if the tables were turned.

Would he or would he not have played a low block had Kane and Son played last night? Y/N.

All the evidence supports that he would have played in exactly the same way, not just on his games already with us but when he was at previous clubs whilst having a superior Team and against an inferior opposition (namely how he set up against Sevilla) this is how he plays. This is his football. With Son and Kane both playing he would have had us play exactly as we did last night. Maybe the quality of Kane and Son might have nicked us something but Leipzig would have still pressed us off the pitch, they would still have created all those chances as a result, they would have still been the better team as a consequence.

 

[John Thomas]

I find it hard to look past Poch on that one.

DL would surely much rather pay FL for another year than put himself in the frame to buy a new ST.

If Daniel Levy bulldozed your house, raped your wife and ate your children I think you'd still be blaming Poch

 

[GDG]

Although it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.

Imagine going into January with no fit goalkeepers then rather than sign one we try wing it through the season with Jan or a Toby in goal?

I'm absolutely convinced there would be some on here that would try to justify it.

What I’m saying is it isn’t the reason we lost. Point to a lack of proactivity around a DCM, a replacement RB for Walker, or even a competent LB when we could all clearly see Rose was on the way out....fine.

But the reason we got played off the park by a Leipzig team with their first 3 CB’s missing isn’t because we didn’t sign Giroud. Or is that what you think?

 

[GDG]

They were without THREE of their first choice of CB's.

Had Kane and Son been available, would we have played any differently? Evidence would suggest not. Yes, had they played they are more likely they would have taken half-chances better, capable of producing something out of nothing. But we would have still set up to be reactive, playing a low deep block and hope the oppo don't take their chances and hope we might nick one of ours.

Leipzig, on the other hand, would have played exactly as they did whether we had Kane and/or Son in the team. Unless we address this Jurassic football nothing is going to change for us and we will come up short big time by the clubs that are playing or are attempting to play a progressive style (Wolves, City, Liverpool, Southampton, Leipzig, Chavs) and struggle and scrap past those that don't.

This post basically articulates my thoughts much more eloquently than I could.

Swap the managers last night and we win.

I didn’t want Jose but I’m prepared to give him time, I just wish he could be more expansive with the way he approaches games.

 

[GDG]

Genuinely Guido, who would you rather lose:

Kane & Son?

Konate, Orban & Upamecano?

I like you but I think you've got a bit of a vendetta against Mourinho mate. Of course we'd have been different with the likes of Son & Kane available, I don't see how you can say that the evidence suggests we wouldn't. What evidence is that? Unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious of course.

On the flip side how do you think the game would have gone if Leipzig had lost Werner and Schick and we had to make do without Alderweireld, Vertonghen & Sanchez? We could have still used the likes of Tanganga, Foyth, Dier and Davies as CBs, all 4 could have done a decent job against what would have obviously been a far weaker Leipzig attack if the tables were turned.

How about the evidence that we got outplayed by Norwich and Saints recently with Son fit?

Guido is spot on, the result could have been different because Son and Kane are world class players, but it would not have affected our approach to the game just as it didn’t against Norwich or Southampton.

Swap the managers last night and we win.

 

[kuntardi]

I mostly agree with you ratings, except I thought Toby and Dav did fine, perhaps a 6.5. I also think Winksy did well - he was active and all over the pitch. A 7 for me.

GLC was the best player on the pitch. That lad can control the fucking ball. Superb skills.

Lamela had some balls, guile, and desire. If half the team had his character we would crush our opponents most games through sheer force of will.

I’ve not paid a huge amount of attention to your ratings as I got stuck on Sanchez at 4 ??
I mean I have been a stern critic of Dav. But a 5 !!

he might’ve been our best player ?

I understand both of your standpoint on Sanchez. Believe me, i too am deliberating on giving him a 6.
Also i think Davies were not as bad as a 4, only because he is making an obvious error.

So yeah i agree. But i also felt like we were conceding space to their attacking players too much, receiving too many shots and it left a bad taste in my memory. I opine that defenders are a unit, therefore all were in fault in this particular case.

Mind you that i do not blame them one bit, the way we are playing right now, i understand they were all fatigue both physically and mentally.

But God we need to be more solid at the back.

While we are at it, i felt like Leipzig arent all that. With our full squad, i think we would have spanked them hard.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

How about the evidence that we got outplayed by Norwich and Saints recently with Son fit?

Guido is spot on, the result could have been different because Son and Kane are world class players, but it would not have affected our approach to the game just as it didn’t against Norwich or Southampton.

Swap the managers last night and we win.

So teams can't have poor performances sometimes? Come on mate behave yourself.

How about the game where we didn't have Kane and beat Man City 2-0? Want to discuss the clean sheet and two goal win right there or the fact we've averaged 2.5 goals a game for the 4-5 prior to Sonny getting his injury? How about the shit show the previous manager got us results wise for nearly a year building up to Mourinho taking over with the exact same team?

Not a fan of this Jose witch hunt, I understand some don't like him but he's not been given a chance at all. Turned a 12 point deficit into a 1 point deficit for top 4, nobody can argue with that, especially when the majority aren't his players and he's had to patch together makeshift attacks.

 

[RealCoolYid]

I understand both of your standpoint on Sanchez. Believe me, i too am deliberating on giving him a 6.
Also i think Davies were not as bad as a 4, only because he is making an obvious error.

So yeah i agree. But i also felt like we were conceding space to their attacking players too much, receiving too many shots and it left a bad taste in my memory. I opine that defenders are a unit, therefore all were in fault in this particular case.

Mind you that i do not blame them one bit, the way we are playing right now, i understand they were all fatigue both physically and mentally.

But God we need to be more solid at the back.

While we are at it, i felt like Leipzig arent all that. With our full squad, i think we would have spanked them hard.

It’s like when you score a bout. You lose a point for a knock down. Davies loses that point

Davies has got previous also but in this case have to remember 2nd game back ... timing and fitness still off

but Dav was worth more than 5

i didn’t rate redbull. Tenacious fit but at the end of the day a bit one dimensional

 

[Kiwi]

sure as eggs if we dont score we go on about if onlys, what ifs, should have, could have , would have..... i had a pemonition(lol) it was going to be 1-0 (thanks Hugo) ... i will be hopeful we can score there... i'm bouyed by the Ajax result last year... so even if we're two nil down nothing is lost....

 

[Pippins]

LOO ROLL THROWING FORFEITS THE MATCH.

I DEFINITELY READ THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE UEFA RULEBOOK

how did they get all the toilet rolls into an A3 size see through bag??

 

[Thin Lilywhite Duke]

how did they get all the toilet rolls into an A3 size see through bag??

... oh lord, did they nick them from the toilets?!

Also, good question - why the fuck do we let away fans take such liberties while we've had fingers up the arse in Italy and been semi-crushed in Dortmund?

 

[skywalker68]

Although it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.

Imagine going into January with no fit goalkeepers then rather than sign one we try wing it through the season with Jan or a Toby in goal?

I'm absolutely convinced there would be some on here that would try to justify it.

But but there was no one available across a number of windows

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

This season so far

there are others on here that would gladly drown you in stats.... personally I’m surprised I even put that amount of effort in

I know you keep saying ‘for you he’s not .....’

but obviously he is a quality striker
It ceases to be subjective when his record as a striker is very good

edit : Whether you think he’s better elsewhere isn’t really the point

He's a quality goal scorer we know this I don't think he's a quality strike he offers very little in build up or creating like Harry does.

 

[RealCoolYid]

He's a quality goal scorer we know this I don't think he's a quality strike he offers very little in build up or creating like Harry does.

You’re now shifting your argument to his overall contribution when deployed up front whilst now admitting he’s a quality ‘goal scorer ‘ but not ‘striker ‘


this is heung min son we’re talking about not tony cottee

he’s a great striker .... move on

 

[Don Giovanni]

If Daniel Levy bulldozed your house, raped your wife and ate your children I think you'd still be blaming Poch

He would claim Levy had to do this for the greater good of our football club.

 

[GDG]

So teams can't have poor performances sometimes? Come on mate behave yourself.

How about the game where we didn't have Kane and beat Man City 2-0? Want to discuss the clean sheet and two goal win right there or the fact we've averaged 2.5 goals a game for the 4-5 prior to Sonny getting his injury? How about the shit show the previous manager got us results wise for nearly a year building up to Mourinho taking over with the exact same team?

Not a fan of this Jose witch hunt, I understand some don't like him but he's not been given a chance at all. Turned a 12 point deficit into a 1 point deficit for top 4, nobody can argue with that, especially when the majority aren't his players and he's had to patch together makeshift attacks.

Not sure what your point is. I’ve not said we haven’t been getting decent results and neither did Guido in the post your originally quoted.

The point I’m making is that in 2020 Jose’s tactics aren’t a sustainable path to success. Literally no top side play with that style save for perhaps A. Madrid. That should tell you something.

There’s no Jose with hunt here and I wanted Poch gone, I just want Jose to realise we have a team and squad of sufficient quality to outplay teams. We afforded too much respect to Leipzig last night and it cost us the game.

If he can become more expansive as a manager there will be no complaining from me.

 

[deadleyledley]

Jose: “we are like a gun with no bullets”

Dig at levy