Toby Alderweireld

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I think if he played against Juventus, we’d be in the Quarters. So I think we have missed him.

And if the lino had spotted the offside for their first goal in Turin, we would be in the 1/4's and if the officials spotted the shirt pull on Vertonghen we would have had a penalty and be in the 1/4's. And if he didn't play against Chelsea he wouldn't have given a free kick from which they scored or if he wasn't playing against West Ham we would have won that game because they wouldn't have scored their 2nd or 3rd goals and probably won the Kangaroo Cup this year. What if he played against Juve and performed like he did against Rochdale, we might have got battered.

All if's, buts and maybe's mate. We can only go on what has happen, not what hasn't happened. One thing that is crystal clear we've lost only 3 games in his absence, 3 games in FIVE months.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Whilst I agree with you that we are weaker at right back than this time last year (although think Aurier will improve to Walkers level or better) I have to disagree with you about not having any fear losing Toby as you did Walker.

I believe Toby is a far more complete player than Walker was and feel that his injuries and lack of playing time have led us to forget how good he is whereas Walker was still playing up until the end.

We have got good options and I have been impressed with how well Sanchez has fitted in but we still do not as solid as a Toby-Jan back 2 or Toby-Jan-Sanchez back 3.

Having said all that I think he will sadly go this summer and although he is worth the rumoured £150,000 that is only if we are upping a lot of other player's wages too.

100% agree around our tactical flexibility we don't look too good when we play 3ATB without him, when Toby plays we look good when playing 3ATB.

As with Walker v Toby, you may be right on ability but Walker has been more valuable to Man City than Toby has to us this year and that's because Toby has been injured for five months and Waker hasn't. You add precisely nothing when you can't play. (Toby has missed more games than he's played for us, you can't build a defence around this person no matter how good he might be, because there is no point if he's injured).

He's only worth £150k per week if another team who thinks he will improve their defence, Bonucci hasn't improved Milans defence, I'd argue whoever is supposed to be in for Toby would also be in for Bonucci, Bonucci has by far the more consistent and distinguished career and has none of the injury problems. It remains to be seen if this talk about clubs being interested in him turns out to be true, it probably is, but if you pause for a second and think what City have just done, they aren't in for him, why? They chose to buy a 23yr old instead (just like we've turned our attentions to two younger CB's). There might be a fair bit to play out yet, in fact fuck it it's still only March and it's international break, so absolutely none of the is new.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

IF he does go will the team/club fall apart?

 

[SpiderSpurs]

People are kidding themselves beyond imagination if they think that selling Toby wouldn't weaken us, not to mention the message it sends out.

As for the "We have Foyth" argument, that's the 2018 variant on the "City didn't buy Trippier because they knew we wouldn't sell him" nonsense.

People said the same thing when Walker moved on. Whilst it did stregthen City, I'm not so sure it made us weaker. Not in the long term.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Toby is our best CB, the club should not let him ago. The board has no excuse now the stadium nearly finished. We should pay what the other EPL top clubs are paying because we now have same revenue. I understand there is a big loan but that is an excuse to not to pay the going rate salaries. If anything the new stadium was delayed and should have been built 10 years ago for half of the current cost.
The other argument would be flog him if Pochetinho thinks we have replacements in Sanchez and Foyth.

You can't be our best CB if you don't play.

 

[The Dane]

We've have been fine though. He's been out since October...we have lost one game in 19.

It's Danny Rose all over again

Do you genuinely think Sanchez is as good as Toby? We are well better defensively with Toby in the side. I think people are starting to forget just how good a player Toby is. He's much better defensively and on the ball than Sanchez

 

[ArtyB]

IF he does go will the team/club fall apart?

Pretty much...they'll probably have to rebuild the stadium after it collapses into a pile of rubble...

 

[superstaryid]

I do wonder how successful Woolwich , Man U (on the early days) and Liverpool would have been if these oil teams had existed back in the day , that's Walker and probably Toby and Rose lost because they've had their head turned by money , I feel we are being robbed at our chance of glory , if this team had arrived 15 years ago we could of built a dynasty.

 

[The Dane]

Toby gave away a free kick to Chelsea that they scored from that could be argued cost us the FA Cup semi final last year. Toby was a calamity against Newport. Toby played in the shit show against West Ham in the Kangaroo cup, responsible for their 2nd (beaten in the air against Carrol, then again by Ayew and 3rd goals when he lost his man Ogbona. He's not God, he also makes mistakes and doesn't concentrate for 90min.

Is Toby better CB than Dier? Yes he is. But I'm talking context with Dier, Toby and Jan are good because they also benefit from Dier playing in front of them. Dier had Winks in front of him. Dier also hasn't had the benefit of playing for a string of games at CB, he's parachuted in, the partnership he has with Jan isn't as well developed.

Nice cherrypicking of games. Giving away a free kick, playing poorly in his first game back after months of injury and losing a header to Andy fucking Carroll. If you count that as serious mistakes it speaks volumes of just how great a defender he is

 

[pipes]

All if's, buts and maybe's mate. We can only go on what has happen, not what hasn't happened. One thing that is crystal clear we've lost only 3 games in his absence, 3 games in FIVE months.

Yes, it’s crystal clear that we’ve lost 3 games in FIVE months (putting it in caps makes it better). That’s the only bit of your argument that is.

Going to the extreme to make my opinion clear, if you show me five months of wins and clean sheets, then we haven’t missed him. As you can’t, “missing him” or not, is guesswork.

I maintain we’d have won more matches with him in the team, you don’t think we would have. All opinion. Nothing at all is CRYSTAL CLEAR.

However, I’m not really sure that was my argument anyway. I thought I was saying we are a stronger squad with him in than out. Just like we are stronger with the likes of Harry and Hugo, even though we managed perfectly well at the weekend without them.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Nice cherrypicking of games. Giving away a free kick, playing poorly in his first game back after months of injury and losing a header to Andy fucking Carroll. If you count that as serious mistakes it speaks volumes of just how great a defender he is

Just check the context to the post I was replying to mate. Did it deliberately because there was an element of cherry picking of Dier performances, it's the reason I wrote what I wrote.

What is it with this place? Toby is absolute quality, I've never said he isn't. Go back to all my Toby posts and you will not find a bigger fan than me, it's all in black and white. But he isn't God. I think Jan was marginally better than him last year, this year Sanchez, Jan and Dier have all had more of a say in our season to-date than him because he missed most of it. A player that is injured as much as him doesn't actually add a lot. Look a Sturridge, terrific player but you wouldn't pick him in your own fantasy team, I know Toby isn't in mine, he doesn't earn me any points.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Yes, it’s crystal clear that we’ve lost 3 games in FIVE months (putting it in caps makes it better). That’s the only bit of your argument that is.

Going to the extreme to make my opinion clear, if you show me five months of wins and clean sheets, then we haven’t missed him. As you can’t, “missing him” or not, is guesswork.

I maintain we’d have won more matches with him in the team, you don’t think we would have. All opinion. Nothing at all is CRYSTAL CLEAR.

However, I’m not really sure that was my argument anyway. I thought I was saying we are a stronger squad with him in than out. Just like we are stronger with the likes of Harry and Hugo, even though we managed perfectly well at the weekend without them.

A stronger squad when he's fit yes. But he's not fit, so I'd have to say no we are not. In fact when fit he's a starter because he's sensational.

He played in our slow start, where we the under the Wembley hoodoo, drawing and loosing our first few games, his presence on the field didn't change the results then.

Mate it's all pointless, the bloke is only of value to us if he's playing and he's not playing.

 

[sammyspurs]

Do you genuinely think Sanchez is as good as Toby? We are well better defensively with Toby in the side. I think people are starting to forget just how good a player Toby is. He's much better defensively and on the ball than Sanchez

It's not about the individual with this team.
I've had major issues with Sanchez at times but the fact is he has been part of our best run since 1999 and Toby hasn't.
He was there when we beat Woolwich and Utd, and drew away at Anfield and Juve. Toby wasn't.

Toby is a world class defender, but what am I supposed to do? Cry because he might leave? We all thought Rose was better than Davies, yet we are gunning for 2nd and an FA Cup with Davies as number one.

If Toby stays, great. If he leaves, we don't go backwards. In a few years, Sanchez will be as good as Ledley King. Swings n roundabouts.

 

[superstaryid]

It amazes me how quickly i go off a player these days , a bit of respect from the likes of Toby Walker and Rose would go a long way they have all afterall a lot to thank Spurs for , fuck the lot of them.

 

[Kalopsia]

I do wonder how successful Woolwich , Man U (on the early days) and Liverpool would have been if these oil teams had existed back in the day , that's Walker and probably Toby and Rose lost because they've had their head turned by money , I feel we are being robbed at our chance of glory , if this team had arrived 15 years ago we could of built a dynasty.

If Levy paid anything like going rate, I’m sure They’d be more willing to stay - what’s the point in Alderweireld or Rose missing out on circa £8-10m on their peak contracts, when they can play for clubs who’ll pay them twice/three times as much without compromising (and even enhancing) their chances of winning silverware? It’s all well and good fans taking the moral high ground, but in reality in the same situation you’d do what’s right for yourself and your family. It’s not like they’re going to China.

I don’t rate Sanchez at all, but think Foyth can be moulded into a great ball-playing defender, plus think Mawson would be a good acquisition under the defender-whisperer Poch. Alderweireld is going to be difficult to replace, but his injuries this season have already kick-started the process anyway.

 

[sammyspurs]

People are kidding themselves beyond imagination if they think that selling Toby wouldn't weaken us, not to mention the message it sends out.

As for the "We have Foyth" argument, that's the 2018 variant on the "City didn't buy Trippier because they knew we wouldn't sell him" nonsense.

People are kidding themselves if they think we would be doing much better with Toby in the team.

Because that's the implication. If we are supposedly much weaker without him, and we have been without him since October, where exactly do people think we would be sitting now in the table? Joint top?
What goals have we leaked that you've thought "shit I wish Toby was back".....over and over and over again.

Because if we are much weaker these last 6 months, there must be a huge amount of goals leaked that would have been preventable with him in the side.
I can't think of any to be fair, I think we've been solid, conceded the same or less than when he plays and our points dropped have been due to the front four not converting in certain games.

Again he's world class, but so is Jan, so is Lloris, and times Dembele has been the best CM in Europe and Sanchez is a great talent.

We're a team.....if anyone told me this time last year I wouldnt give a toss about losing Walker and Rose I'd have thought they were mental.
It will be the same if Toby leaves.

 

[Thin Lilywhite Duke]

People are kidding themselves if they think we would be doing much better with Toby in the team.

Because that's the implication. If we are supposedly much weaker without him, and we have been without him since October, where exactly do people think we would be sitting now in the table? Joint top?
What goals have we leaked that you've thought "shit I wish Toby was back".....over and over and over again.

Because if we are much weaker these last 6 months, there must be a huge amount of goals leaked that would have been preventable with him in the side.
I can think of any th be fair, I think we've been solid, conceded the same or less than when he plays and our points dropped have been due to the front four not converting in certain games.

Again he's world class, but so is Jan, so is Lloris, and times Dembele has been the best CM in Europe and Sanchez is great talent.

We're a team.....of anyone told me this time last year I would give a toss about losing Walker and Rose I'd have thought they were mental.
It will be the same if Toby leaves.

Gave this a like and I mostly agree.

I think the only goals where our defence was horribly at fault were letting in Rondon against West Brom (that was Sanchez having a brainfart IIRC) and the clusterfuck of Salah's early goal for Liverpool away. Probably something in our Juventus performances that suffered too but I don't have the heart to dissect those too much.

Of the examples; the former would have likely been avoided if a fit Toby was playing, and perhaps the latter if he makes our defence a bit more 'stable' in hostile environments like Anfield.

But yeah, it's not like we've been stuck with Lovren in his absence. We've been solid as fuck. Almost surprisingly so given how pivotal he was last season (and how young Sanchez is).

 

[kolyid]

People are kidding themselves if they think we would be doing much better with Toby in the team.

Because that's the implication. If we are supposedly much weaker without him, and we have been without him since October, where exactly do people think we would be sitting now in the table? Joint top?
What goals have we leaked that you've thought "shit I wish Toby was back".....over and over and over again.

Because if we are much weaker these last 6 months, there must be a huge amount of goals leaked that would have been preventable with him in the side.
I can't think of any to be fair, I think we've been solid, conceded the same or less than when he plays and our points dropped have been due to the front four not converting in certain games.

Again he's world class, but so is Jan, so is Lloris, and times Dembele has been the best CM in Europe and Sanchez is a great talent.

We're a team.....if anyone told me this time last year I wouldnt give a toss about losing Walker and Rose I'd have thought they were mental.
It will be the same if Toby leaves.

Agreed. Toby is a great player but he isn’t a god and we aren’t a team of individuals anymore. Sanchez has filled in the role better than anyone could have imagined being so young and he is only going to get better. And if I’m being completely honest I rate Vert more than I rate Toby. Ever since Poch came along its like Vert has been reinvented. It’s going to suck to lose Toby but that 70 million which I have faith Poch will reinvest wisely will make me feel better about it.

 

[Hrytn]

Pochettino knows what we have better than anyone on an internet forum.

Of course Poch knows best.
Fit Walker was benched from March to June 2017. He was rarely used, but was he better than Tripps or not?!
You may say it was different circumstances as W told Poch he wants to leave in the summer etc... But similar scenario.

 

[Hrytn]

I strongly believe if Toby was fit and played against Juve, we would have progressed, but no need to look back.