Toby Alderweireld

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therealITK said:
If he goes, he goes, but for the life of me, please don't sell him within the Premier League.

I know we don't sell to Chelsea or Woolwich, but fuck the Manchester clubs and Liverpool too.

I still think selling Walker to City was one of the most idiotic decisions. Yeah, we may not have won the League, but strengthening a rival? If City beat United, then Walker returns as a Premier League Winner on his first season after leaving. Don't tell me that doesn't play a song in our player's minds. He's won THE title and earning how much more whilst doing it? Yeah, City would have done well without him, but that's not what matters, is it?

Plus, after the alleged jerking us off with Jadon Sancho, Levy's reputation would be non-existent if he went back to deal with the corrupt dictatorship running Citeh. No more selling to Premier League rivals. It doesn't become us.

At minimum, selling abroad would give us a 1 year delay if the player were to then be purchased by one of our domestic rivals, which given we still idiotically scramble for last minute transfers who then need a "Poch-preseason" to get up to speed, would leave us at least on par.
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City were the ONLY club that wanted to buy him. There was no dutch auction. They tripled his money, they paid a world record fee. There was no Utd., Chelsea, PSG, Barca, Madrid that batted an eyelid at him.

That leaves us two choices, 1) Don't sell but don't play him, a player that doesn't play offers nothing to us 2) Sell him and buy in two younger defenders for the money we got from Walker (Aurier, Sanchez).

I have always been Walkers biggest fan and I don't rate Tripps. But all that said and done we absolutely strengthened our squad by selling Walker and buying Aurier and Sanchez.

So, you can only choose to sell abroad if a team from abroad wants to buy.
 
Guido said:
Toby gave away a free kick to Chelsea that they scored from that could be argued cost us the FA Cup semi final last year. Toby was a calamity against Newport. Toby played in the shit show against West Ham in the Kangaroo cup, responsible for their 2nd (beaten in the air against Carrol, then again by Ayew and 3rd goals when he lost his man Ogbona. He's not God, he also makes mistakes and doesn't concentrate for 90min.

Is Toby better CB than Dier? Yes he is. But I'm talking context with Dier, Toby and Jan are good because they also benefit from Dier playing in front of them. Dier had Winks in front of him. Dier also hasn't had the benefit of playing for a string of games at CB, he's parachuted in, the partnership he has with Jan isn't as well developed.
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Clearly no player is immune from the occasional mistake, Jan, Sonny, Harry, Lloris, Toby and Dier.... the list goes on but I personally feel Toby remains more focused for the 90mins.

Dier has made six league defensive errors this season whereby Toby has made none. I know Dier has played nearly three times the volume however averaging this across games played shows Dier is more prone to the occasional lapse in concentration. I've not taken Cup games into account so perhaps they flip this on it's head.

I'm not a huge fan of stats as I don't feel they always give a true representation. Personally I feel happier seeing Toby in the middle of our defence but get a little nervous when Dier is on the ball. It's the same way I feel at ease when Dembele picks the ball up as you know he is rarely going to loose it. Again it's the same feeling when Sonny is running one on one with the keeper, I would feel more confident than if it was Sissoko.

It's that subconscious feeling you get towards a player after watching time after time... That feeling obviously changes over time but where i'm at now is I prefer Toby at the back.

Can Dier take this role and make it his? For sure, he's an amazing player to have in the squad, for so many reasons...
 
For better or worse said:
Clearly no player is immune from the occasional mistake, Jan, Sonny, Harry, Lloris, Toby and Dier.... the list goes on but I personally feel Toby remains more focused for the 90mins.

Dier has made six league defensive errors this season whereby Toby has made none. I know Dier has played nearly three times the volume however averaging this across games played shows Dier is more prone to the occasional lapse in concentration. I've not taken Cup games into account so perhaps they flip this on it's head.

I'm not a huge fan of stats as I don't feel they always give a true representation. Personally I feel happier seeing Toby in the middle of our defence but get a little nervous when Dier is on the ball. It's the same way I feel at ease when Dembele picks the ball up as you know he is rarely going to loose it. Again it's the same feeling when Sonny is running one on one with the keeper, I would feel more confident than if it was Sissoko.

It's that subconscious feeling you get towards a player after watching time after time... That feeling obviously changes over time but where i'm at now is I prefer Toby at the back.

Can Dier take this role and make it his? For sure, he's an amazing player to have in the squad, for so many reasons...
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I actually agree with you mate. But in the cold light of day the errors are there in his game and they have cost us goals. We all sweep some stuff under the carpet though, Kane's mistake rarely mentioned while Lamela's, Dele's Sissoko's, whoever are magnified.

The Chelsea semi-final is for me the most obvious example of selective criticism, everyone from fans to media focused on Moses's penalty he won against Son. But absolutely no-one spoke of Toby getting completely done by (Batshuayi)? to a) let him get past and b) bring him down on the edge of the box. It was far more a mistake than what Son did. Son brought the brunt of everything. Why? Because he was playing LWB, it was different, it was a surprise. The reality was he dived in but no different to Toby did, but most telling was that Son made no contact, Moses dived. Just one small example where we get selective.

But having said all that on the whole, the feeling of the player, the way they move, run, whatever that is tends to provide the emotion to make our decisions on a player, most of us all tend to agree on what we see, it's only the minutiae that really gets debated.
 
therealITK said:
Plus, after the alleged jerking us off with Jadon Sancho...
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I'm not entirely convinced we wanted Sancho; we had too much leverage. Walker was regarded as one of the best right backs in the world, and Man City wanted him so much that were prepared to pay us a then-world record fee for a defender. Given all they stood to lose, there's no way they get Levy to back down on what would have been a relatively painless compromise.
 
Guido said:
I actually agree with you mate. But in the cold light of day the errors are there in his game and they have cost us goals. We all sweep some stuff under the carpet though, Kane's mistake rarely mentioned while Lamela's, Dele's Sissoko's, whoever are magnified.

The Chelsea semi-final is for me the most obvious example of selective criticism, everyone from fans to media focused on Moses's penalty he won against Son. But absolutely no-one spoke of Toby getting completely done by (Batshuayi)? to a) let him get past and b) bring him down on the edge of the box. It was far more a mistake than what Son did. Son brought the brunt of everything. Why? Because he was playing LWB, it was different, it was a surprise. The reality was he dived in but no different to Toby did, but most telling was that Son made no contact, Moses dived. Just one small example where we get selective.

But having said all that on the whole, the feeling of the player, the way they move, run, whatever that is tends to provide the emotion to make our decisions on a player, most of us all tend to agree on what we see, it's only the minutiae that really gets debated.
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Yup, can't disagree, can certainly remember myself feeling disappointed with Toby at points in the past but it has become a distant memory as he has been out so long.

When all is said and done, I would rather see Toby's name on the team sheet. Not gutted to see Dier's, just a little nervous (you know... that feeling we used to get as Spurs fans)
 
Guido said:
The reality was he dived in but no different to Toby did, but most telling was that Son made no contact, Moses dived. Just one small example where we get selective.
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I just went and found a clip of the incident because I seem to remember at the time thinking it was a nailed on pen. But having looked at it again, if that was given to us I would consider it soft. It was a careless challenge by Sonny, but that doesn't make it a pen.

What I found really interesting is that when Willian took the spotkick, he stuttered at exactly the same point in his approach to the ball as Sonny did against Rochdale. Waited a split second for Hugo to move and buried it in the other corner. Goal stood and no yellow card.
 
Rocket said:
I just went and found a clip of the incident because I seem to remember at the time thinking it was a nailed on pen. But having looked at it again, if that was given to us I would consider it soft. It was a careless challenge by Sonny, but that doesn't make it a pen.

What I found really interesting is that when Willian took the spotkick, he stuttered at exactly the same point in his approach to the ball as Sonny did against Rochdale. Waited a split second for Hugo to move and buried it in the other corner. Goal stood and no yellow card.
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Yep and Yep.

Pen -blatant dive, he was horizontal before any contact was made but it's what I would expect my players to do, it's why I have no issue with Dele and or Kane doing it or any other player for that matter, it's part of the game, has been for decades.

The ref got it wrong for Son's pen, he's aloud to feint in the run up, law actually states this, but you can't feint at the end of run-up i.e when you kick the ball, again laws explicitly state this. (there was nothing wrong with Willian's pen, nothing wrong with Son's).
 
Does the £25,000,000 release clause kick in NEXT summer?

If so, it probably won't be a record fee then. We'll sell him at a reasonable £45,000,000 or risk losing him for nearly half a year later.
 
Totti said:
Does the £25,000,000 release clause kick in NEXT summer?

If so, it probably won't be a record fee then. We'll sell him at a reasonable £45,000,000 or risk losing him for nearly half a year later.
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Yep, 2019.

The release clause isn't a massive issue for us, if there is more than one club in for him, the clubs competition would take the price above the release fee i.e If Barca activate the release clause @£25m he will not go to Barca if Man U want him and they are prepared to pay £40m, but if PSG want him too then they might bid £50m or more. So long as there is competition for his signature and more than one club is willing to pay more than the release clause then the release fee stipulated of £25m doesn't matter. Remember Woolwich's Suarez bid of £40m and £1...Suarez eventually was sold to Barca for £65m
 
Guido said:
Yep, 2019.

The release clause isn't a massive issue for us, if there is more than one club in for him, the clubs competition would take the price above the release fee i.e If Barca activate the release clause @£25m he will not go to Barca if Man U want him and they are prepared to pay £40m, but if PSG want him too then they might bid £50m or more. So long as there is competition for his signature and more than one club is willing to pay more than the release clause then the release fee stipulated of £25m doesn't matter. Remember Woolwich's Suarez bid of £40m and £1...Suarez eventually was sold to Barca for £65m
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I thought that the way it worked was that, as the release fee is £25m, then Spurs can not refuse any bid at that price. So ALL clubs need only bid £25m. Therefore saving the "extra" money for his wages.
So if for example PSG, Barca, RM, Man ure etc, come in for him, he can choose to go to whoever offers most wages/trophies.
Spurs will have NO say in this.
 
the more I read on this the worse it gets... if he goes for £25m we have been robbed, even if he goes to manure for £44m it's peanuts compared to his real market value. I would laugh if he went to PSG, hardly a step up TBH, sure they have some big names but were wank in the CL and their league is utter shite.

I would rather force him to play another season, if he doesn't perform well have him up in a tribunal, then the day before his contract expires get Harry to make a career ending challenge on him.

Man i'm bitter.... Just really pisses me off. I know Levy et al would have done all they could to have secure their position.

Trust and honesty is gone from the game, only thing that counts is a cast iron contract and often that get torn up. you could argue Toby has played his best game to date!
 
For better or worse said:
I would rather force him to play another season, if he doesn't perform well have him up in a tribunal, then the day before his contract expires get Harry to make a career ending challenge on him.
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is harry the go-to-man for this type of thing?
 
hrytn said:
I do not like this. If Toby has been fit and not selected in the starting XI specially against Juve, we could have been in the last eight of the CL FFS! Bad management from top to bottom if the case.
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Even if he is fit now there is no reason to assume he was fit 2 weeks ago.
 
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