Oliver Skipp

[bus-conductor]

I have hope Skipp can be a sort of hybrid of Winks and Dier.

I think people forget how impressive Dier was in that 2015-16 season in midfield. Breaking up play but also being a lot more progressive in his passing. It's just that as we became more and more perceived as "a top team" opponents stopped giving us that much space to play with and he doesn't quite have the mobility to make his own space in the midfield to counter that.

Winks certainly can wiggle his way out of tight areas which is why he starts every week. If Skipp can have that confidence in possession but keep his tenacity which he shows in his fleeting appearances so far he might even reach a higher ceiling than Winks.

I don’t think Dier was impressive in 15-16. If we’d had Wanyama that season we’d have possibly won the league, and certainly would have finished above a mediocre Woolwich.

As well as being much more dynamic defensively, and better at hunting out danger, Wanyama’s passing and progressing of the ball was better than Dier’s, and we improved exponentially when he replaced Dier in our midfield in 16-17 - and results and performances reflected this.

 

[Airfixx]

I'd suggest that Dier is a 2/4/5/6 hybrid (ie RB/CB/DM) ie predominantly defensive player.

Skipp is a 4/5/6/8 hybrid (ie CB - rarely in youth but can do) and a 6/8 hybrid which means he combines the defensive talents of a DM with the running/pressing and passing abilities of a CM.

Winks is an 8 (and occasional 10 in youth) who has over the last season been coached by Poch to become a 6/8.

Gross over simplification of course but does give an overview of where those players are most comfortable on the pitch, which in turn gives a clue as to their abilities necessary to perform those roles.

I'm hoping that Poch gives Skipp 10 - 20 starts this season (plus appearances off the bench) so that by the back end of this season he's got a decent amount of experience and can be regarded as a full member of the squad.

For what it's worth though a "hybrid" isn't simply someone that can play multiple positions, it's someone that plays a fusion of 2 roles/positions at once.

....Sure you could call Winks a hybrid 6/8 for example, but the idea that Dier is a 2, 4, 5, 6 hybrid is a clusterfuck.... How can you play a fusion of RB and LCB?

 

[Airfixx]

I don’t think Dier was impressive in 15-16. If we’d had Wanyama that season we’d have possibly won the league, and certainly would have finished above a mediocre Woolwich.

As well as being much more dynamic defensively, and better at hunting out danger, Wanyama’s passing and progressing of the ball was better than Dier’s, and we improved exponentially when he replaced Dier in our midfield in 16-17 - and results and performances reflected this.

That's a bit of a stab in the dark, isn't it?

Crappy 1-0's losses to Leicester (H) & WHam (A) were key (a 9 point swing if we'd won them - We'd already fucked it by the time we lost to S'oton on game day #37)...

 

[Totti]

I think Dier just benefited from having a monster peak Dembele alongside him during the 15/16 season who would cloud alot of Diers weaknesses.

I also think Wanyama benefited from it too the following season as he was distinctly average for Southampton before we signed him, yet looked incredible for us, yet never looked quite as good without Dembele (Quite a few times partnered with Dier during that season) - but Wanyama is a better footballer than Dier and it was clear.

Considering Dier doesn't count as HG, he's probably only still around because he can play 3 positions.

 

[Spursidol]

I think Dier just benefited from having a monster peak Dembele alongside him during the 15/16 season who would cloud alot of Diers weaknesses.

I also think Wanyama benefited from it too the following season as he was distinctly average for Southampton before we signed him, yet looked incredible for us, yet never looked quite as good without Dembele (Quite a few times partnered with Dier during that season) - but Wanyama is a better footballer than Dier and it was clear.

Considering Dier doesn't count as HG, he's probably only still around because he can play 3 positions.

Dier is very useful because of his versatility - RB, CB, DM.

ATM for example we could probably choose to lose Wanyama or Aurier this TW with Dier covering whoever went.

Of course lots of possible arguments around whether Aurier should stay as our only other recognised RB other than KWP, whether Wanyama might come back to his 155/16 form etc. But sometimes compromises are necessary.

Whilst we would be one less in the squad (and arguably might be thinner than we needed to be) it would free up an overseas trained player space in January if Poch was trying to line up one (or two if N'koudou was also going). And that might be very helpful with only a 4 week window in January.

So a decision for Poch as to whether he wants to take that compromise.

 

[Spursidol]

For what it's worth though a "hybrid" isn't simply someone that can play multiple positions, it's someone that plays a fusion of 2 roles/positions at once.

....Sure you could call Winks a hybrid 6/8 for example, but the idea that Dier is a 2, 4, 5, 6 is a clusterfuck.... How can you play a fusion of RB and LCB?

Tanganga who did well as LCB in the preseason games has also played RB well in Spurs youth teams.....

Same as some FB's being able to play both LB and RB to a decent standard.

 

[Airfixx]

I think Dier just benefited from having a monster peak Dembele alongside him during the 15/16 season who would cloud alot of Diers weaknesses.

I also think Wanyama benefited from it too the following season as he was distinctly average for Southampton before we signed him, yet looked incredible for us, yet never looked quite as good without Dembele (Quite a few times partnered with Dier during that season) - but Wanyama is a better footballer than Dier and it was clear.

Considering Dier doesn't count as HG, he's probably only still around because he can play 3 positions.

IMO, both discovered their mojo over the course of those respective seasons.... Vic was gash in possession at the start of the season and was on a whole different level by the end of it.

Besides fitness, Dier's concentration levels are the thing I doubt the most right now... He can still ping a ball about when he's on his game. Must admit he doesn't seem as mobile as 15/16 either, but again, maybe that's due to a succession of niggles.

 

[Airfixx]

Tanganga who did well as LCB in the preseason games has also played RB well in Spurs youth teams.....

Same as some FB's being able to play both LB and RB to a decent standard.

You've misunderstood my point.

....Re-read what I wrote about what a "hybrid" is.

It doesn't mean "can play multiple positons".

 

[Spursidol]

IMO, both discovered their mojo over the course of those respective seasons.... Vic was gash in possession at the start of the season and was on a whole different level by the end of it.

Besides fitness, Dier's concentration levels are the thing I doubt the most right now... He can still ping a ball about when he's on his game. Must admit he doesn't seem as mobile as 15/16 either, but again, maybe that's due to a succession of niggles.

Eric Dier has not played this season, and given a couple of stints out last season, might not have been fully fit when he last played for Spurs.

Think after a good rest over last preseason he should be back to whatever level of mobility, concentration he has within a few weeks of playing this season

 

[Spursidol]

You've misunderstood my point.

....Re-read what I wrote about what a "hybrid" is.

It doesn't mean "can play multiple positons".

ok, thanks, I understand plant hybrids etc.

For simplicity can you give me a single word for 'can play in multiple positions' ? The word 'hybrid' may not be correct but it sure shortens sentences !

 

[Airfixx]

Eric Dier has not played this season, and given a couple of stints out last season, might not have been fully fit when he last played for Spurs.

Think after a good rest over last preseason he should be back to whatever level of mobility, concentration he has within a few weeks of playing this season

Indeed... I was just reflecting on his last few seasons... Also acknowledge potential niggles too.

 

[Airfixx]

ok, thanks, I understand plant hybrids etc.

For simplicity can you give me a single word for 'can play in multiple positions' ? The word 'hybrid' may not be correct but it sure shortens sentences !

A "Versatile" player.

 

[Spursidol]

A "Versatile" player.

Nope.

Hybrid is probably right for Skipp as I don't think the old fashioned no 6 or DM exists in most big teams, most play with DMs who can pass well and hence the term 6/8 hybrid as it's one player (or two usually) playing both roles simultaneously as a double pivot.

 

[Airfixx]

Nope.

Yes....

A "hybrid" is not merely a player that can play in more than one position.

Hybrid is probably right for Skipp as I don't think the old fashioned no 6 or DM exists in most big teams, most play with DMs who can pass well and hence the term 6/8 hybrid as it's one player (or two usually) playing both roles simultaneously as a double pivot.

It's not as complicated as you're making it for yourself....

Think of "Hybrid" in terms of a fusion of positions, not a type of player....

(See my original post.)

Harry Kane played both ST & GK, that doesn't make him a GK/ST hybrid, just a player that 'can' play more than one position.

 

[Spursidol]

Yes....

A "hybrid" is not merely a player that can play in more than one position.



It's not as complicated as you're making it for yourself....

Think of "Hybrid" in terms of a fusion of positions, not a type of player....

(See my original post.)

Harry Kane played both ST & GK, that doesn't make him a GK/ST hybrid, just a player that 'can' play more than one position.

Don't disagree which is why Skipp and Winks and Ndombele are all playing as 6/8 hybrids - all of them playing in positions which might originally have been though to have been players either play as no 6 or no 8...... But both/all will play both roles !

 

[superstaryid]

So can Hybrids be versatile or not?

 

[Airfixx]

Don't disagree which is why Skipp and Winks and Ndombele are all playing as 6/8 hybrids - all of them playing in positions which might originally have been though to have been players either play as no 6 or no 8...... But both/all will play both roles !

Aye, that fits the description; your previous mention of Dier and Tanganga doesn't.

Let's move one shall we.

 

[Jayc1]

Dier is very useful because of his versatility - RB

Am I the only one who thought Dier was absolutely pants at RB? He looked like a CB at RB - which is what he really is.

 

[Airfixx]

Am I the only one who thought Dier was absolutely pants at RB? He looked like a CB at RB - which is what he really is.

'Use in emergencies' at best, as far as I recall... Certainly didn't leave a lasting positive impression besides his debut goal at WH.

 

[Ahab]

Should be only a matter of time before Skippy is rewarded with a five year contract.
His current deal runs out in 21.