It's also terrible for the other hotel owners who can still only open their smaller, less profitable, hotels 19-25 times a year.
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It's also terrible for the other hotel owners who can still only open their smaller, less profitable, hotels 19-25 times a year.
I noticed you edited your post so I will respond to the edit as well.
I never said it wasn't a magnificent stadium, it's the best in the world as far as I am concerned.
But I don't support spurs because of the stadium.
I guess by JT you refer to me, Good morning, BS.
And although you probably can't get your head around this ,I'm also a member.
Some one in the Levy thread said we should give ENIC at least 10 more years to deliver a major trophy.
That takes us to 30 years.
Do you think that's reasonable or is 30 years still demanding too much?
Another question.
Do you not think our role of Anchor Tennants in the multi-functional sports and entertainment complex , in the words of THFCs head of marketing primarily built for hosting an NFL franchise , raises the bar significantly in plastic-ness
Are you actually comfortable with this?
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We get it the stadium's not for you ... that's OK there are thousands of fans who don't get to go, if you don't like the stadium join them and support Spurs from in front of your TV ... won't make you any less a fan, but it will save those that do go and enjoy themselves from having to listen to your incessant whining. Moan at the TV all you want it won't care.
The thing people fail to grasp with City is they virtually have an unlimited budget.
When they came into the game the highest paid players earned c. £100k per week - so they paid everyone £120k - as soon as other clubs started to match that they paid everyone £150k, etc, etc, etc. The upper level of wages they are prepared to offer is only dictated by what others can afford to pay.
If you try to take them on without the means of at least bridging the financial gap, to some extent, you will never succeed. The stadium (and it's location and the wealth of our local fan base) is the only financial advantage we can leverage over them (and pretty much every team in world football).
You probably can't get your head around this ....
“The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”
Spurs fans are born and brought up with this philosophy, sure we'd all like to win things and I've been lucky and seen every trophy from '67, but there's more to being a fan than just the trophies.
If you don't agree that's your call, but you will never turn the vast majority of us into entitled whingers, leave that shit to the shower down the road. We will always aim to be better we just won't always succeed, and believe it or not that's OK.
Thank you for the reasonable and well thought out post.
I do agree with you on some points but I want to address some of the points you have made.
Just speaking for myself here by the way when I say this.
I don't think we have catered for the NFL at the expense of Tottenham, not yet at least, like you I agree that the deal with the NFL only benefits us currently in terms of profit, which is a good thing.
The cynic in me however says that the NFL is such a huge market with so much money and with ENIC wanting to crack the American market so badly I worry that their focus will be on bringing that franchise over here and in the long term it might take focus away from the football side of things, that is a fear more than a reality currently but it's a concern of mine nonetheles, that we will be stretched thin and will lose focus on improving what matters the most.
However, Say that fear never becomes a reality, let me address your other points.
There is no disagreeing that the ground is ambitious in a business sense and definitely sets us up long term to remain stable financially, the issue that I and many others have is, will we see this extra money reinvested into the football squad? Will this extra revenue be used to improve the football side of things and will it see us show more ambition in that market?
Will it lead to us having success on the pitch?
I am also not using the stadium as a stick to beat the owners with, I love the stadium and I think we needed to build it simply for the reasons you stated, to allow more supporters in.
However, I still believe (in regards to the football side of things) we are poorly run and I don't think that's "bollocks" we haven't won a single trophy in nearly 12 years despite countless managers, we are the only club in the "big six" to have not done so, even United who are in a complete mess, have won a trophy .
Is that Levys fault and the owners? Well yes, I think they are partly to blame along with the managers and players.
The owners and chairman hire the managers, if the manager is failing at his job to deliver silverware then surely he shouldn't be employed? Am I right in thinking that?
Unless of course our owners goals are not to win silverware, instead just to keep the club in the top four and remain profitable? (Which seems to be the case imo or else Poch would have been gone years ago for not winning a trophy.)
In which case we need to ask ourselves, is that good enough for this club?
And back to my original questions
30 years to deliver a major trophy. Is that putting an unreasonable demand on our owners? Would 50 be a fairer target, maybe?
And does the very real prospect of becoming underlings to the now admitted ENIC goal of securing a multi billion $$ long term NFL franchise not make you feel just the tiniest bit uncomfortable?
You just can't help insulting people can you? Shows how paper thin your arguments are when you have to resort to that.
A stadium doesn't mean success on the pitch, hate to break the news to you, plenty of clubs who have fantastic stadiums have won nothing for a very long time because they are poorly managed in regards to the footballing side of things, so forgive me for not bending the knee because we have something shiny and new, unlike you, I look at things from all perspectives.
Like I have said, the stadium is incredible, that's one perspective, the other perspective is a genuine concern that the extra money earned from this stadium will not be reinvested into the squad and team and until we see that happening it will remain a concern.
You say only a stupid person would say that after only a "few months" that we haven't seen any of these benefits and it makes them "entitled" for doing so.
Always amazes me when people goto bat for a company that makes millions, like I said, corporate bootlicking and when supporters are paying ridiculous prices for tickets it makes them "entitled" because they want more for their club.
Well nobody is saying that we will NEVER see these benefits are they? But what you're talking about here is trickle down economics, something we hear a lot about from companies but rarely ever see the benefits of.
Some people, like myself, just want to take a cautious approach to things until we actually see it happen because funny enough, corporations and businesses tend to get a little greedy sometimes when they go unchecked, I don't know if you're aware of that or not? I mean, it only happens every single day.
Also to say a spurs supporter of 30+ years is being "entitled" because he wants his club to win silverware after a 12 year period of none is pretty fucking ridiculous I have to say, it's hardly "wanting it all right now" is it?
I would argue that, what's REALLY sad about modern society is this dedication and sheep like mentality towards businesses that frankly, couldn't give a flying fuck about you as a person and only want your money, that's a bigger issue than a paying supporter being "entitled" because they want success for the thing they love.
Like I said, we used to take the piss out of that shower down the road for celebrating finishing 4th, now you're saying we should be celebrating it? Does it really make supporters "entitled whingers" for wanting more than just always being the bridesmaids?
I know we can't always win trophies, no team can, even Man City with their endless amounts of cash but for fuck sake man, we haven't won one in 12 years and even longer since a major one was lifted.
At what point do you start asking "when's it going to happen again?" Or do you simply not care if we ever win another trophy?
And if that's the case then what pleasure do you gain from watching sports if you don't at least hope we can win one?
Do you just view sports as entertainment that you watch for 90 mins and win, lose or draw it doesn't make a difference to you as long as you were entertained?
Because for many of us Spurs isn't just a football club, it's a love, a passion and like for anything that a person loves, they want the best for it and the most success for it do they not?
You quote 'the game is about glory' then say 'there's more to being a fan than just the trophies'...
I don't moan at games, I sing from the 1st minute until the last minute, I act like the 12th man, regardless of what's happening on the pitch.
But that's at a game, where the support actually can have a benefit on what's happening on the pitch.
A forum is a place to discuss concerns and share positive aspects of the club in equal measure, this forum has ZERO impact on the performances of the players on the pitch but it might serve as a good place to discuss what we all want from the future of our club, have you ever considered that?
Have you ever considered that what you think is "negative" is just paying supporters being upset about the struggles of the club they love but don't want their opinions to be voiced at games where it serves to only be counterproductive to the team on the day? Hence why a forum is a good place to discuss these concerns?
Also, it's not the moaning people complain about at the new stadium for the most part, it's the singing, the standing, the wanting to get behind your team, these are the things that ruin the daytrippers experience because they're more interested in having a selfie in the new shiny stadium than they are with what's happening on the fucking pitch and having "noise" around them.
Like I said, my mate got told to fuck off because he dared say "gutless" after we let the 6th goal in against Bayern, up until that point he had not said a single thing, he was singing the entire game (this was in the "wall" by the way) and the bloke that told him to fuck off was on his phone the entire game, taking pictures of the stadium, didn't sing a single song, barely even looked up at the pitch, barely even celebrated when Son scored but everytime my friend let out a song he would turn around and give him a look and moan under his breath.
The reality is, these aren't supporters, they are people wanting a nice little evening/day out and couldn't give a shit about what's happening on the pitch, the glitz and glamour of the stadium and the brand loyalty means more to them.
Post after post you telling me why I should think we're shit, why only you're criteria for what makes a football club is correct, why only your type of support is valid .... well sorry you can write as many essays as you want it won't change my loyalty one bit ... so please just stop trying.
You may be a great fan, but you're also a pair of whining little bitches, that's just not for me. You can hark back to the "good old days" but don't forget I was there and believe me there were a lot less good days than you might think, but it doesn't matter each to their own
I admit it I don't like whining fans, your mate who abused our players would have got shit from me as well, save that for the internet not in the ground. I might complain about the whining, but if you want to whine that's still your right. Whine all you want you will never change my view, Spurs are a religion not just some fashionable trend, always have been always will be ...
You think the club's failing, I think we're in the best position we've been in for decades ... let's just agree to disagree ...
You may be a great fan, but you're also a pair of whining little bitches, that's just not for me. You can hark back to the "good old days" but don't forget I was there and believe me there were a lot less good days than you might think, but it doesn't matter each to their own
I admit it I don't like whining fans, your mate who abused our players would have got shit from me as well, save that for the internet not in the ground. I might complain about the whining, but if you want to whine that's still your right. Whine all you want you will never change my view, Spurs are a religion not just some fashionable trend, always have been always will be ...
You think the club's failing, I think we're in the best position we've been in for decades ... let's just agree to disagree ...
Excellent, SENSIBLE post young man keep it up
I am not telling you to think anything, YOU are the one judging others on their support all the time on the forum, I don't think you're a bad supporter and not once have I tried to change your mind on things either (it wouldn't work even if I did because you don't care for others opinions anyway based on the way you approach these discussions.)
You are the one that enters every single thread complaining about other posters opinions, as a matter of fact that's ALL you do on here from what I have seen, calling everyone you disagree with "moaners" "negative" or "entitled" because they don't share views and opinions, you constantly talk about "positivity" but you're constantly negative towards other posters.
I never said we were shit either, that's how you interpret things, me criticising certain areas of the club does not = me thinking the club is shit, again, that's your own insecurities around perceived "negativity" projecting outwards.
You believe that the measure of a real supporter is never being critical of the owners, the players or the management, that's your opinion and you're free to have it, my opinion is that the club always comes above the owners, players and manager and that I think we can improve upon what we have already and could achieve more than what we are currently achieving.
If you disagree, that's fine, I don't think you're a shit supporter, you just view things differently to me.
Not once have I ever said my "type of support" is the only one that is valid, or that my criteria is correct, all I have ever said is that I want us to win trophies and that's what I believe competitive sport is about or it wouldn't exist, that's an opinion, you take it as an insult.
However, YOU spend your entire time on here telling others that they aren't real supporters, that they're "moaners" "melters" telling people to die etc.
It speaks volumes that you view your lack of criticism for any aspect of the club as "loyalty" as if loyalty is the only criteria that makes a good supporter or as if a person criticising something no longer makes them loyal, it's such a tribal and black and white way of viewing things imo.
I can appreciate all the good that the owners, players and managers are doing whilst also seeing room for improvement, does that make me a bad supporter in your eyes?
I don't hark back to the "good old days" either, where are you getting this stuff? I already said the old days were utterly shit compared to now, that doesn't mean I should just be content with failure though, not winning a trophy in 12 years is failure imo, despite all the massive steps forward we have taken, it's still a failure that needs to be addressed and fixed going forward, again, does me thinking that make me a "bad supporter" or just someone who wants the best for his club? The whole "we've never had it so good" mentality as an excuse for stagnation, in my eyes, is just the reverse of the false accusation you are labelling at me about "the good old days."
Your definition of a whining fan is, sorry to say it, completely ridiculous, you think everyone who has ANYTHING critical to say is a "whiner" my mate did not "abuse our players" it was a knee jerk reaction after watching the team he loves give up and roll over, so he shouted "Gutless" after singing the entire game, he was hurting, he was watching the club he LOVES get turned over at home, football is about emotion and passion, he wasn't calling the players cunts or personally disrespecting them, he was being honest about what he was seeing, HONEST ABOUT WHAT HE WAS SEEING.
And even the players admitted they gave up and it wasn't good enough, our manager said the same so what's the fucking difference? Would you have given our players and manager shit for saying the same thing?
Also you say "save the whining for the internet" only you spend your entire time in here moaning about people being negative and saying how it ruins the forum.
Also, admitting that you view spurs as a religion isn't a good thing, that's just an admittance that you refuse to look at things objectively, I love Spurs and it's as big a part of my life as anything but like with anything you love, you always want to see it improve and give it the best tools to do so, sometimes that means you have to be critical of it, some of my best improvements as a person have come from people pointing out my flaws rather than just pandering to my ego.
I don't think we're failing as a business, financially we are stable and we're run well, I think we're failing as a football club because the aim is to win trophies at any club that has ambition, we are regressing and stagnating on the pitch instead of moving forward this season and for the majority of last season (champions league run aside, which like many have said, isn't an indication of progress, it's a knockout cup competition and has papered over a lot of cracks.)
So yes, I think it's reasonable to say we need improvements in that area, don't you? I do agree we are in the best position we have been in for decades but if that's your only argument (considering how shit we were in the past) along with a new stadium for excusing what's currently happening at the club then I personally feel like that's just accepting mediocrity, like I said, I want what's best for the club, what I don't want is to become a Woolwich 2.0 but without the trophies.
Another whining monologue .... I wonder how many pages you can fill?
You aren't even remotely interested in conversation or debate, not bothering with you anymore, it's like taking to a child.
There was nothing whiny about what I said, you just didn't want to read it because you have zero interest in any opinion other than your own and that's fine, whatever works for you but I am not wasting my time responding to you constantly quoting my posts calling me a "melter" or "negative" anymore, I will just ignore you from now on if this is the sort of response you continue to give.
Well done ... I asked you stop posting monologues four pages ago ... eventually you got the message
You want to whine like a little bitch that's certainly your right, doesn't mean we want to read it (and certainly not ten times over)
There's a reason this forum is unmoderated because if people like you were mods there wouldn't be a discussion to be had on here about anything because everything offends you that you disagree with, it would be like spurscommunity lol.
You're such a delightful little man btw, how old are you again? You would have thought all these years would have made you a little wiser, instead you're just another big bad internet warrior who acts like a tough guy and spends his entire time online crying about the opinions of others and flinging insults at them, yet you say other people whine? Don't make me laugh mate.
A few NFL fans on twitter seem to want to shorten our stadium name to #TottyHouse
