Dele

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todd1882 said:
Bookmarked. And thank you for the education on football. I'm American so I'm just familiarizing myself with things. But this helps. I look forward to revisiting it in the very near and distant future. :sonpoint:

Admin Admin do bookmarked posts change with respective edits or are they pinned to the version at the time of bookmarking? .
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I'm not attempting to educate anyone mate, just putting out my opinion, the same way you have with yours.
 
adasai said:
You do know Ballondor are based on votes and opinions . Shearer, Aguero, Henry, Kane...none of them won Ballon D'or. But Owen has so he is clearly better because some people voted for him . So lets ignore straight facts that the other 4 have scored more than 20 a season 4 times or more but owen who has never even scored 20 in his entire career is fucking elite.
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Owen played for: Real Madrid, Man Utd and Liverpool, multi Champions league/European cup winners. Probably wouldn't have played for all 3 had he not been elite. Just saying.... :sonhmm:
 
iz futbal iz futbal is right. Owen wasn't an elite footballer. He was a very quick kid who's game was all about zipping off the shoulder on the last defender, but once that zip went, which it did pretty quickly with injuries, there was absolutely fuck all left to his game.

And todd1882 todd1882 is right too, Alli isn't an elite player either, he's capable of creative nut megs and the odd moment of inspiration, but his game is littered with carelessness, poor first touches and mediocrity.

Kane needs a kick up the arse every now and again, but he is an elite footballer, he's not reliant on a single physical attribute, his brain and his emotional strength are his greatest assets. But he's actually developed as a footballer the last few years, become more rounded. Needs to be reminded to work harder off the ball sometimes, but some of the passes he plays now are even better than the goals he scores.
 
bus-conductor said:
iz futbal iz futbal is right. Owen wasn't an elite footballer. He was a very quick kid who's game was all about zipping off the shoulder on the last defender, but once that zip went, which it did pretty quickly with injuries, there was absolutely fuck all left to his game.

And todd1882 todd1882 is right too, Alli isn't an elite player either, he's capable of creative nut megs and the odd moment of inspiration, but his game is littered with carelessness, poor first touches and mediocrity.

Kane needs a kick up the arse every now and again, but he is an elite footballer, he's not reliant on a single physical attribute, his brain and his emotional strength are his greatest assets. But he's actually developed as a footballer the last few years, become more rounded. Needs to be reminded to work harder off the ball sometimes, but some of the passes he plays now are even better than the goals he scores.
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I think Sissoko's an elite footballer.....
 
bus-conductor said:
iz futbal iz futbal is right. Owen wasn't an elite footballer. He was a very quick kid who's game was all about zipping off the shoulder on the last defender, but once that zip went, which it did pretty quickly with injuries, there was absolutely fuck all left to his game.

And todd1882 todd1882 is right too, Alli isn't an elite player either, he's capable of creative nut megs and the odd moment of inspiration, but his game is littered with carelessness, poor first touches and mediocrity.

Kane needs a kick up the arse every now and again, but he is an elite footballer, he's not reliant on a single physical attribute, his brain and his emotional strength are his greatest assets. But he's actually developed as a footballer the last few years, become more rounded. Needs to be reminded to work harder off the ball sometimes, but some of the passes he plays now are even better than the goals he scores.
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Whilst I agree in the main, I would say that Owen was 'elite' for that one season when he won the award. He was the best forward in England that year and was certainly at the top table in Europe (Raul, Shevchenko etc). If you're defining elite footballers as the best there has ever been - then yes he's not close.
 
El flaco said:
Whilst I agree in the main, I would say that Owen was 'elite' for that one season when he won the award. He was the best forward in England that year and was certainly at the top table in Europe (Raul, Shevchenko etc). If you're defining elite footballers as the best there has ever been - then yes he's not close.
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Honestly, I don't think he was anywhere near the calibre of the likes of Raul, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Henry, Kluivert etc etc.

He was just a nippy kid with one trick.
 
Guido said:
My view is utterly unchanged on him. He's an elite player, one of, if not the best 23-year-old in the Wolrd.

He's played a completely different role, as the entire team have also been playing a different style of football for two seasons now. He isn't the 2nd striker, so he's no longer scoring the goals, he's not leading our press high up the pitch because we don't press high up the pitch. He's been played in a deeper role, yet he's judged solely on the numbers he posted when he was striker/2nd striker.

The debate is how Spurs play, how they set-up rather than how Dele performs as an individual. Find me a post over the past two years where I haven't been arguing this.
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Best 23yo player in the world?

Dele Alli?
Right now?

No.
Just no.

However you look at it (either where he is right now or what he has achieved by age of 23) he is not. Mbappe is world superstar and he is still more than 2 years to go until 23. Sane is in difficult situation with his current injury but I would put him ahead of Alli. Lucas Hernandez is a World Cup winner (as starting player) who plays for European powerhouse that is Bayern.

Plus ofc 23 is arbitrary age to pull the line to. There are handful of 24 yo players who are two heads above him like Kimmich like Sterling like Saul.

And then there are ones on who the jury is out there still, but who are ~2-3 years younger than him but still play much better than him right now - de Ligt, Sancho, Jovic.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Best 23yo player in the world?

Dele Alli?
Right now?

No.
Just no.

However you look at it (either where he is right now or what he has achieved by age of 23) he is not. Mbappe is world superstar and he is still more than 2 years to go until 23. Sane is in difficult situation with his current injury but I would put him ahead of Alli. Lucas Hernandez is a World Cup winner (as starting player) who plays for European powerhouse that is Bayern.

Plus ofc 23 is arbitrary age to pull the line to. There are handful of 24 yo players who are two heads above him like Kimmich like Sterling like Saul.

And then there are ones on who the jury is out there still, but who are ~2-3 years younger than him but still play much better than him right now - de Ligt, Sancho, Jovic.
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ONE OF.

Mbappe runs fast, Vertonghen (one of the slowest CB's around) marked him out of the game in World Cup Finals go figure that one out. I think he's good, but he is one of the most marketed players on the planet which I'd argue probably has more to do with people spouting his name than his actual ability (Pogba effect whilst at Utd is the same). Sane has been dropped from his national side in the World Cup, also by Pep too (prior to any injury, he wasn't being selected by either, moreover both coaches were being publicly highly critical of his application). He's a sound player but hardly plays, a player that doesn't play can't be considered to be in with a shout of anything.

I have to confess I hardly watched Henandez, unfair form me to make any comment on him.

Sterling, Saul definitely up there with him I'd 100% agree with that. And Sterling right now is way above him, I've no issues with that whatsoever. As with Kimmich, I've read loads of great things about him but here is another player I've only seen a small handful of times, during which I didn't see anything from him that stood out, so again unfair for me to comment further with so few games I've seen of him.

de Ligt is having an absolute nightmare for Juve, had you have said de Jong I'd agree, a truly special player and worthy of inclusion of the elite 23yr old club. Sancho has been great for BVB this past season but way off the pace is the big games (CL) and for England has barely turned up. I've rated this kid though when he was at City, he's a special player but he's a long way off Dele who's been doing it for 5yrs now.
 
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