Dele

[sammyspurs]

Kane scoring less:
Better player now, developed his game, so clever, better all round player

Dele scoring less:
Moved position, still world class, better than Johan Cruyff

Owen scoring less:
HAHAHAAAAAAAA HES SHIT!!!!!

 

[todd1882]

The fact he's not scoring and assisting is the reason why people are/and have been saying he isn't very good you included.

That's a fallacy. Some have been saying the exact opposite for his whole time with us, ie he is overrated as a player because of his goal contributions and in open play he has always been quite poor. Now what you are seeing is that he isn't scoring and the focus is on the actual player instead of the stats.

Shiny objects have no affect on my evaluation of a player whether that be a striker or a FB. The problem you are having and anyone else that blindly believes Dele will 'come good' is that there is nothing in his general play upon which to base that. And the 'come good' will, ironically, be based on the same goal contributions you are saying shouldn't be used by people on the other side now.

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

Kane scoring less:
Better player now, developed his game, so clever, better all round player

Dele scoring less:
Moved position, still world class, better than Johan Cruyff

Owen scoring less:
HAHAHAAAAAAAA HES SHIT!!!!!

At least you are funny as fuck men. Absolutely diabolical takes but funny mate. For me you should receive the award of poster of the year

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

That's a fallacy. Some have been saying the exact opposite for his whole time with us, ie he is overrated as a player because of his goal contributions and in open play he has always been quite poor. Now what you are seeing is that he isn't scoring and the focus is on the actual player instead of the stats.

Shiny objects have no affect on my evaluation of a player whether that be a striker or a FB. The problem you are having and anyone else that blindly believes Dele will 'come good' is that there is nothing in his general play upon which to base that. And the 'come good' will, ironically, be based on the same goal contributions you are saying shouldn't be used by people on the other side.

FFS! I’ve always maintained he’s an excellent footballer. I’m arguing that he’s played well dispute not scoring or assisting, last season, I did exactly this during the corse of the season, not just now. Even Sammy should agree with my constantly on this matter as much of the debate was with him.

I’ve always maintained that he played well last season (not every game), I’ve judged him on the role in which he has been tasked to play, not on the output of goals or assists to make a claim either way.

 

[todd1882]

FFS! I’ve always maintained he’s an excellent footballer. I’m arguing that he’s played well dispute not scoring or assisting, last season, I did exactly this during the corse of the season, not just now. Even Sammy should agree with my constantly on this matter as much of the debate was with him.

I’ve always maintained that he played well last season (not every game), I’ve judged him on the role in which he has been tasked to play, not on the output of goals or assists to make a claim either way.

I think you may have misread my post. I know you are saying he's 'an excellent footballer'. My point is that many, including me, have always felt his overall game was poor but papered over by his goal contributions.

The disservice you are doing now is dismissively saying that we base our current take on him of his decreasing goal contributions. That is the problem. I think Dele, as a player, is technically deficient and 1 dimensional. He can goal hang and pop some in but his game is bad.

He was never a great player nor on a 'world-class' trajectory. That perception was ALL based on goal contributions. So the people that were actually blinded by the shiny objects were those in your camp that actually rated him in the first place...and apparently still do.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I think you may have misread my post. I know you are saying he's 'an excellent footballer'. My point is that many, including me, have always felt his overall game was poor but papered over by his goal contributions.

The disservice you are doing now is dismissively saying that we base our current take on him on his decreasing goal contributions. That is the problem. I think Dele, as a player, is technically deficient and 1 dimensional. He can goal hang and pop some in but his game is bad.

He was never a great player nor on a 'world-class' trajectory. That perception was ALL based on goal contributions. So the people that were actually blinded by the shiny objects were those in your camp that actually rated him in the first place...and apparently still do.

Yes, I did misinterpret your post, apologies.

But I don’t base my view on his stats, never have, even though they are incredibly impressive. I do acknowledge that some people may well have, so much of football has been reduced to stats like it’s a game of Top Trumps or fantasy league football.

I happen to hold the belief he’s an elite footballer, specifically in his age bracket. He’s a smart footballer, adept at playing in multiple formations and roles, his best and most effective are in more advanced areas not for the stats but the contribution, his energy, his pressing and his ability to break an oppo press with the ball at his feet.

Above all there are few players that have his sense of timing and ability to find the space, these are repeated patterns of play, not some freak event.

 

[todd1882]

Yes, I did misinterpret your post, apologies.

No probs.

But I don’t base my view on his stats, never have, even though are incredibly impressive. I do acknowledge that some people may well have, so much of football had been reduced to stats like it’s a game of Top Trumps or fantastic league football.

Yes, this is annoying but is helpful as to which poster's opinions to ignore in the future.

I happen to hold the belief he’s an elite footballer, specifically in his age bracket.

He's not even an elite footballer on our team for his age bracket. In fact, he has been justifiably left off his own national team. I'm willing to say that he will not receive 10 more caps in his lifetime. All it takes is a look at what's coming up behind and he's not getting back. The only position where he could get back is the 8 or the 6 and his present game is neither of these. Too much talent up front for England.

Are you willing to revisit this opinion in the future if (when!) you are wrong?

adept at playing in multiple formations and roles

He has played in multiple formations. To say he is 'adept' is a stretch. He was awful last season. So awful that even he (his PR folks) had to come out and apologize for it. Regardless of the defenses by many on these boards he was awful. And he's been awful this year.

It doesn't matter where he plays now he will be awful unless you give him a free role again. And truthfully, any player with decent technical ability and athleticism would do better there. And that has always been my contention.

go back and look at videos of his 'glory days'. Watch how times he bumbles, slows, or ruins moves. He is not a good footballer and yet he is credited with abilities that truly aren't there. If you are that close to goal a higher percentage of passes are going to contribute to goals than if they were made in the center circle. That's not a function of being 'smart' that's a function of being higher up the pitch.

his ability to break an oppo press with the ball at his feet.

Never seen this. The next time he does this will be the first in a Spurs kit. I've seen him relieve pressure by aimlessly dribbling left out to the channel but 'breaking' a press is what Dembele, Iniesta, Messi, Hazard etc do. That is a charitable description for Dele. Because if he was able to do this then why isn't he doing it now. We could sure use a player in the MF that could receive the ball under pressure, turn and transition with it at his feet. Dele is not this player and will never be.

Above all there are few players that have his sense of timing and ability to find the space, these are repeated patterns of play, not some freak event.

Back post runs are not amazing. And since this is all he has it is being cut out by defenses. It's not amazing. And I wish it was a freak event. That would mean he has added somehting to his game from the previous 4 seasons.

Remember, +/- 10 more caps.

 

[Radical Rei]

I'll login to this forum one day in the future and then 27 year old 'prospect' Alli will still be talked about as 'needing more time' or we just need to 'have faith'.

 

[iz futbal]

You do realise he only played about 30 odd games for them right and left after one season and still managed 13 goals from the bench

Funny how Dele can dip in form for two years and it’s ok, but no one else can

Couldnt get games at Real Madrid elite then. Dele's form is shit and its not okay either.

 

[iz futbal]

No but apparently they do get dropped for club and country while not playing poor.

Interesting

Fuck does that even mean.

 

[iz futbal]

So let me get this right, you think Owen (who won the Ballon D'or) isn't an elite player?

You do know Ballondor are based on votes and opinions . Shearer, Aguero, Henry, Kane...none of them won Ballon D'or. But Owen has so he is clearly better because some people voted for him . So lets ignore straight facts that the other 4 have scored more than 20 a season 4 times or more but owen who has never even scored 20 in his entire career is fucking elite.

 

[iz futbal]

But Kevin Phillips is because he scored more then 20 in 2 seasons

No Kevin Phillips wasnt elite either you dummy. Neither were elite.

 

[Baggio1]

No Kevin Phillips wasnt elite either you dummy. Neither were elite.

Fuck off with your ridiculous opinions you silly cunt. Owen wasn't elite but dele alli is haha. Get yourself sectioned. Wanker

 

[SpiderSpurs]

You do know Ballondor are based on votes and opinions . Shearer, Aguero, Henry, Kane...none of them won Ballon D'or. But Owen has so he is clearly better because some people voted for him . So lets ignore straight facts that the other 4 have scored more than 20 a season 4 times or more but owen who has never even scored 20 in his entire career is fucking elite.

OK.

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

Lads, Sammy is asleep. If someone as nice words to say about dele now it’s the time. Talk now or wait until tomorrow by the same hour.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

No probs.


Yes, this is annoying but is helpful as to which poster's opinions to ignore in the future.


He's not even an elite footballer on our team for his age bracket. In fact, he has been justifiably left off his own national team. I'm willing to say that he will not receive 10 more caps in his lifetime. All it takes is a look at what's coming up behind and he's not getting back. The only position where he could get back is the 8 or the 6 and his present game is neither of these. Too much talent up front for England.

Are you willing to revisit this opinion in the future if (when!) you are wrong?


He has played in multiple formations. To say he is 'adept' is a stretch. He was awful last season. So awful that even he (his PR folks) had to come out and apologize for it. Regardless of the defenses by many on these boards he was awful. And he's been awful this year.

It doesn't matter where he plays now he will be awful unless you give him a free role again. And truthfully, any player with decent technical ability and athleticism would do better there. And that has always been my contention.

go back and look at videos of his 'glory days'. Watch how times his bumbles, slows, or ruins moves. He is not a good footballer and yet he is credited with abilities that truly aren't there. If you are that close to goal a higher percentage of passes are going to contribute to goals than if they were made in the center circle. That's not a function of being 'smart' that's a function of being higher up the pitch.


Never seen this. The next time he does this will be the first in a Spurs kit. I've seen him aimlessly relieve pressure by aimlessly dribbling left out to the channel but 'breaking' a press is what Dembele, Iniesta, Messi, Hazard etc do. That is a charitable description for Dele. Because if he was able to do this then why isn't he doing it now. We could sure use a player in the MF that could receive the ball under pressure, turn and transition with it at his feet. Dele is not this player and will never be.


Back post runs are not amazing. And since this is all he has it is being cut out by defenses. It's not amazing. And I wish it was a freak event. That would mean he has added somehting to his game from the previous 4 seasons.

Remember, +/- 10 more caps.

The talent coming through for England is good but it a long way off from where Dele is. It's always hard to know what's in the mind of an England manager as there are few games to assess with any clarity the identity he's working on but I do like Southgate and what he's done with England so far.

Who exactly do you see as better than him in the England set-up comming through? It ain't Mount (not this season at least). It's not Rashford, he has the pace that Dele doesn't and sometimes that's a useful asset to deploy to turn defences, but he really is the most overrated of players, I think he's poor and should be nowhere near the Snr England side. I really like Sancho but he's been average when given the minutes so far but he's the one player I would like to see remain in the Snr Squad and build his minutes and allow proper integration. Abraham, off to a flyer this season, has a soundtrack record leading up to this point.

Then there's the older bracket of the likes of Wilson, delighted he's been called up totally deserved but at 27 he's left it late and because of this it's fair to say it's not a banker he's going to cement a place in the team, you feel it's now or never. Oxlade-Chamberlin, I won't waste my breath here. Delph, think he's done. Lingard, what the fuck has this player ever done? The only thing in his favour is he brings (on occasion) energy to Utd, but think this is only because Utd is one of the most ponderous sides to watch. Wellbeck, done. and it's not Barkley, although he is capable of putting in the odd good performance, he's not constant enough and I think he's a dumb footballer but still deserves to be in the squad and has a use.

Now that's a lot of footballers and whilst writing them down one thing clearly shows just how versatile Dele is as he's played in practically all of the positions these players claim. But if we are looking to narrow down their specific roles those players listed above will get their minutes when Kane, Sterling don't that leaves just one forward position (Kane is also defacto number 10) available and that could be to the left or right of Kane as Sterling is capable of playing either side.

If we are agreeing a number 6 definition is a holding player/defensive midfielder then that's not Dele's position and under Southgate, he's completely stuck on playing two of them (let's hope Winks stays fit so that selection is broken). So, that leaves and back to the last attacking position/number 10/number 8 where I best see Dele suited for England.

More more I write that the more I see Dele as a starter over all of those mentioned. He will get his 10 games so happy to predict this (injury aside).

Dele breaks an oppo press with a quick touch to another player, it's completely different to Dembele, who would hold onto the ball and dribble, the best description of Dembele is press resistant, very hard to get the ball off him. Dele losses the ball a lot, when playing in an advanced role he's looking for a higher risk ball which are often cut out, the one that finds his man will have broken the lines of the oppo. There are literally scores and scores of these in out build up.

Right now Sterling is scoring a hatful of goals by doing what Dele did, timing a run from deep from a super ball played from midfield usually from the wond of De Bruyne, it's an art and even more difficult to perform when the oppo are fully expecting it to happen but can do absolutely fuck all to prevent it. With Dele though it wasn't just back post, he'd find space with regular occurrence all around the oppo penalty box.

 

[iz futbal]

Fuck off with your ridiculous opinions you silly cunt. Owen wasn't elite but dele alli is haha. Get yourself sectioned. Wanker

When did I say Dele is elite. You just replied to my post where I said neither is elite, you stupid cunt. Drink bleach. Prick.

 

[iz futbal]

OK.

 

[todd1882]

The talent coming through for England is good but it a long way off from where Dele is. It's always hard to know what's in the mind of an England manager as there are few games to assess with any clarity the identity he's working on but I do like Southgate and what he's done with England so far.

Who exactly do you see as better than him in the England set-up comming through? It ain't Mount (not this season at least). It's not Rashford, he has the pace that Dele doesn't and sometimes that's a useful asset to deploy to turn defences, but he really is the most overrated of players, I think he's poor and should be nowhere near the Snr England side. I really like Sancho but he's been average when given the minutes so far but he's the one player I would like to see remain in the Snr Squad and build his minutes and allow proper integration. Abraham, off to a flyer this season, has a soundtrack record leading up to this point.

Then there's the older bracket of the likes of Wilson, delighted he's been called up totally deserved but at 27 he's left it late and because of this it's fair to say it's not a banker he's going to cement a place in the team, you feel it's now or never. Oxlade-Chamberlin, I won't waste my breath here. Delph, think he's done. Lingard, what the fuck has this player ever done? The only thing in his favour is he brings (on occasion) energy to Utd, but think this is only because Utd is one of the most ponderous sides to watch. Wellbeck, done. and it's not Barkley, although he is capable of putting in the odd good performance, he's not constant enough and I think he's a dumb footballer but still deserves to be in the squad and has a use.

Now that's a lot of footballers and whilst writing them down one thing clearly shows just how versatile Dele is as he's played in practically all of the positions these players claim. But if we are looking to narrow down their specific roles those players listed above will get their minutes when Kane, Sterling don't that leaves just one forward position (Kane is also defacto number 10) available and that could be to the left or right of Kane as Sterling is capable of playing either side.

If we are agreeing a number 6 definition is a holding player/defensive midfielder then that's not Dele's position and under Southgate, he's completely stuck on playing two of them (let's hope Winks stays fit so that selection is broken). So, that leaves and back to the last attacking position/number 10/number 8 where I best see Dele suited for England.

More more I write that the more I see Dele as a starter over all of those mentioned. He will get his 10 games so happy to predict this (injury aside).

Dele breaks an oppo press with a quick touch to another player, it's completely different to Dembele, who would hold onto the ball and dribble, the best description of Dembele is press resistant, very hard to get the ball off him. Dele losses the ball a lot, when playing in an advanced role he's looking for a higher risk ball which are often cut out, the one that finds his man will have broken the lines of the oppo. There are literally scores and scores of these in out build up.

Right now Sterling is scoring a hatful of goals by doing what Dele did, timing a run from deep from a super ball played from midfield usually from the wond of De Bruyne, it's an art and even more difficult to perform when the oppo are fully expecting it to happen but can do absolutely fuck all to prevent it. With Dele though it wasn't just back post, he'd find space with regular occurrence all around the oppo penalty box.

Bookmarked. And thank you for the education on football. I'm American so I'm just familiarizing myself with things. But this helps. I look forward to revisiting it in the very near and distant future.

Admin do bookmarked posts change with respective edits or are they pinned to the version at the time of bookmarking? .

 

[jonomarch]

Kane scoring less:
Better player now, developed his game, so clever, better all round player

Dele scoring less:
Moved position, still world class, better than Johan Cruyff

Owen scoring less:
HAHAHAAAAAAAA HES SHIT!!!!!

you forgot Sammyspurs talking less:
yes please ! god yess.