Davinson Sanchez

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Actually I think it's a collective mistake.

Look how much lateral space is between our defenders. Add to this that no one is actually pressing Atsu so he has sooo much time to pick the right pass at the right time. An easy goal.

Another angle the moment Atsu makes the assist, huge space.

The moment Atsu made the pass no one is on him. Our defence is badly exposed and I noticed this in the goal Aston Villa scored, no one picked on McGinn's run because our midfielders were too advanced.

The mistake still lies within our midfield.

As you say there is zero pressure on the ball from Sissoko, it's fine to stand a player up, which is what I think he's trying to do, but he needs to be closer to either not make it possible for the cross to be attempted or block it if it's tried. If that's Dier, Dembele or Wanyamma than they will be aggressive in forcing the player on the ball out wide, they can afford to even attempt to tackle the player, maybe force him to attempt to dribble past them (if they fancy themselves) which will give the covering players (KWP & Toby) a chance to engage in the 2nd phase, there should be very little on for the player on the ball other than a ball squared (that should meet the same problem).

There are lots of things that can be more forensically dissected about the positioning of the players but all of that is completely unnecessary if we simply are more aggressive towards the player on the ball. Make them play a rushed pass and lose possession as a consequence or win the ball back by tackling them in the first phase or in the 2nd phase when he may have the ball under less control whilst taking on Sissoko.

It's quite basic, which is the worry.

 

[Jenny Talia]

I think you nailed with the back 3 in the match thread.

It is a big mistake to think that we become more effective in attack by picking a team full of forwards. We just end up facing 10 man defences and getting hit on the break.
A more balanced team forces the opposition to come out more, and that creates spaces to attack. We should have gone 352 v Newcastle, I said it before the game and I stick by it.

 

[For better or worse]

The mistake still lies within our midfield.

As you say there is zero pressure on the ball from Sissoko, it's fine to stand a player up, which is what I think he's trying to do, but he needs to be closer to either not make it possible for the cross to be attempted or block it if it's tried. If that's Dier, Dembele or Wanyamma than they will be aggressive in forcing the player on the ball out wide, they can afford to even attempt to tackle the player, maybe force him to attempt to dribble past them (if they fancy themselves) which will give the covering players (KWP & Toby) a chance to engage in the 2nd phase, there should be very little on for the player on the ball other than a ball squared (that should meet the same problem).

There are lots of things that can be more forensically dissected about the positioning of the players but all of that is completely unnecessary if we simply are more aggressive towards the player on the ball. Make them play a rushed pass and lose possession as a consequence or win the ball back by tackling them in the first phase or in the 2nd phase when he may have the ball under less control whilst taking on Sissoko.

It's quite basic, which is the worry.

yes, almost like it's a commitment of effort related issue. That bothers me more than an individual mistake, the collective just don't seems up for it. Before we had an understanding, one initiated the press and the others would immediately follow. Seems like we don't play this way anymore, we try to gain and keep possession and break a team down but when the opposition know this they compact the final third by sitting deep and we run into a dead-end. We don't have the space, creativity or brain to do anything, we just pass it to someone else hoping they will do something with the ball, it's comical at times...

 

[Jenny Talia]

The mistake still lies within our midfield.

As you say there is zero pressure on the ball from Sissoko, it's fine to stand a player up, which is what I think he's trying to do, but he needs to be closer to either not make it possible for the cross to be attempted or block it if it's tried. If that's Dier, Dembele or Wanyamma than they will be aggressive in forcing the player on the ball out wide, they can afford to even attempt to tackle the player, maybe force him to attempt to dribble past them (if they fancy themselves) which will give the covering players (KWP & Toby) a chance to engage in the 2nd phase, there should be very little on for the player on the ball other than a ball squared (that should meet the same problem).

There are lots of things that can be more forensically dissected about the positioning of the players but all of that is completely unnecessary if we simply are more aggressive towards the player on the ball. Make them play a rushed pass and lose possession as a consequence or win the ball back by tackling them in the first phase or in the 2nd phase when he may have the ball under less control whilst taking on Sissoko.

It's quite basic, which is the worry.

We can analyse it until the cows come home, but it is Dav's fault. I think he is going to be a good player for us, but this is not rocket science.

He is running away from the only opposition player that could possibly threaten our goal to a spot where he has literally nothing to defend. His job is to deal with the main danger at the moment, and he doesn't even know what that is.

 

[For better or worse]

It is a big mistake to think that we become more effective in attack by picking a team full of forwards. We just end up facing 10 man defences and getting hit on the break.
A more balanced team forces the opposition to come out more, and that creates spaces to attack. We should have gone 352 v Newcastle, I said it before the game and I stick by it.

IMHO any midfielder worth their salt should be able to score. Midfielders should really be chipping in with 5-10 goals each a season... Like Tanguy and Lamella have already done, there's no reason Winks and Sissoko shouldn't be scoring. I know Winks plays deeper and covers but there are times when he's in a position to shoot.

Sometimes feel we are top heavy, we look for our wing backs to give us width and dart up the outside but this forces Son, Moura and Kane to occupy the same small area in the middle...

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Sometimes feel we are top heavy, we look for our wing backs to give us width and dart up the outside but this forces Son, Moura and Kane to occupy the same small area in the middle...

This is a problem I have seen as well. We neutralize our attackers by forcing them all into the same congested area to make room for the wingbacks.

Son needs space to operate in, Lucas as well. Son has always worked better with Ben behind him in my opinion because Ben is not as attacking as Danny and thus gives Son more space.

Why we feel like putting all three strikers in one small area is beyond me.

 

[Ahab]

We can analyse it until the cows come home, but it is Dav's fault. I think he is going to be a good player for us, but this is not rocket science.

He is running away from the only opposition player that could possibly threaten our goal to a spot where he has literally nothing to defend. His job is to deal with the main danger at the moment, and he doesn't even know what that is.

I played center back and I would never have done what Davinson did. It was terrible defending.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

I played center back and I would never have done what Davinson did. It was terrible defending.

If it is true that Poch does not teach defending (source Trippier) then that is very worrisome.

Watching Dav for Colombia is like watching a player with ten years more experience.

But again Colombia and our defensive systems are very different.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

yes, almost like it's a commitment of effort related issue. That bothers me more than an individual mistake, the collective just don't seems up for it. Before we had an understanding, one initiated the press and the others would immediately follow. Seems like we don't play this way anymore, we try to gain and keep possession and break a team down but when the opposition know this they compact the final third by sitting deep and we run into a dead-end. We don't have the space, creativity or brain to do anything, we just pass it to someone else hoping they will do something with the ball, it's comical at times...

We haven't pressed high up the pitch for over a season now, that's primarily down to *probably* needing to look after Kane, Son and an injured Dele. So, the press has been dropped into midfield (a mid-block). There were signs of a high press being played in pre-season and in both Newcastle and Villa games, but as we ended up with near 80% possession there simply is nothing to press. When teams sit deep it's not about pressing, it's about moving the ball quickly, and using the width of the pitch. We should also be setting traps for the oppo to build, to get out of their defensive shape in the hope we can win the ball back by counter-pressing (doubt that would have happened against Newcastle but it did against Villa). The ONLY team that is consistently good at breaking down teams that put 10-11 behind the ball are City, what they move the ball quickly and use the width of the pitch so well, but one standout feature is they have rehearsed set of plays that get them the goals in every game, and that's a timed late run to the back post, this run is made from deep and made before the ball is even played, hello De Bruyne & Sterling combo.

We still have a major issue with Winks and Sissoko allowing players to run off them and them not engaging the player on the ball. Winks improved massively with this throughout last year. But the issue is exaggerated when the oppo by-pass the midfield with a long ball upfield, this is hard for either of them to be in position as they would be squeezing the space up the pitch. This is where we weren't aggressive enough, higher up the pitch, to stop the long ball. Winks actually picked up a "good" yellow when he pulled one of their players back to prevent them from building or playing that ball, we needed Son, Lucas in particular to do that. Again, look at City they will foul the fuck out of the oppo as soon as they lose possession (they conceded 14 fouls vs our 4 when we played them and look how much of the ball they had!!!).

We will continue to concede shots on our goal if we aren't putting pressure on the oppo when they are on the ball. This is the issue.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

We can analyse it until the cows come home, but it is Dav's fault. I think he is going to be a good player for us, but this is not rocket science.

He is running away from the only opposition player that could possibly threaten our goal to a spot where he has literally nothing to defend. His job is to deal with the main danger at the moment, and he doesn't even know what that is.

Sorry mate it's absolutely not a singular player at fault. The issue is we aren't putting pressure on the player on the ball, that cross should never have come in, if the cross doesn't come in there is no goal.

 

[Jenny Talia]

Sorry mate it's absolutely not a singular player at fault. The issue is we aren't putting pressure on the player on the ball, that cross should never have come in, if the cross doesn't come in there is no goal.

... and the Newcastle player should never have had the ball because somebody gave it away, and, and, and. You can take that all the way back to the kick off.

 

[Ahab]

If it is true that Poch does not teach defending (source Trippier) then that is very worrisome.

Watching Dav for Colombia is like watching a player with ten years more experience.

But again Colombia and our defensive systems are very different.

I did wonder about that with Davinson. Isn't Poch coaching this guy? Apparently not.
Justify your wage Poch and coach your players dammit.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

If it is true that Poch does not teach defending (source Trippier) then that is very worrisome.

Watching Dav for Colombia is like watching a player with ten years more experience.

But again Colombia and our defensive systems are very different.

Where have you read that Trippier has said that Poch doesn't teach defending? If you have any links I'd genuinely be up for having a little butchers at those whilst pretend to work pal.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

I did wonder about that with Davinson. Isn't Poch coaching this guy? Apparently not.
Justify your wage Poch and coach your players dammit.

Dav was a monster in his first season with us, but he was playing next to Jan at the time and I just think that Jan is much better at guiding/leading the rest of the defense compared to Toby. Toby is a 1 on 1 defender so he probably forgets that he has to make sure that Davinson fills in for him when he goes off on an adventure.

And that is on Poch to fix. If Poch cannot give Toby and Dav clear instructions on how to set up the defense then that is indeed a worry.

Colombia use a more zonal defensive system. Dav and Yerry Mina have their respective areas that they operate in and very rarely move out of and it works very well for them. Very little movement sideways compared to how we play where our CBs are expected to float out on the flanks since our FBs move upfield.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Where have you read that Trippier has said that Poch doesn't teach defending? If you have any links I'd genuinely be up for having a little butchers at those whilst pretend to work pal.

Harrykane9 made reference to it earlier in this thread. Maybe he knows what interview Trippier said so in?

 

[Benny]

So on the one hand we have Pochettino widely touted as being the fullback whisperer, but we're also now led to believe that neither him or his coaching team coach any defending...

 

[Airfixx]

So on the one hand we have Pochettino widely touted as being the fullback whisperer, but we're also now led to believe that neither him or his coaching team do not teach defending...

Don't you just love forum Chinese whispers.....

 

[Kekerinho]

... and the Newcastle player should never have had the ball because somebody gave it away, and, and, and. You can take that all the way back to the kick off.

Yeah I'm sure Poch and his team is analyzing transitions and trying to figure patterns. But watching the goal highlight Newcastle started by building from the back, they pass it sideways and there's Ritchie I think who is triggering KWP press, Atsu near him gets the ball who never gets under pressure. He has shitloads of time to pick the right pass like I said and sometimes defenders are in difficult situations when facing 1v1. If you really want to blame anyone, it's Sissoko.

If you want to blame Davinson, watch Newcastle's big chance in the first half I think when Lloris saved, he man marks a Newcastle player who drops so deep that he gets in Newcastle's half and Davinson inexplicably follows him. That leaves Toby and KWP really exposed. Not to say that there's a runner again on the right side that isn't picked by our midfielders.

Imo Winks-Sissoko is not gonna work, Winks-NDombele is not gonna work, Sissoko-NDombele is not gonna work. All these 3 players need a partner that knows how to defend.

I am not sure how Poch sees our midfield this year but we really needed to buy a player like Ndidi or Gueye to replace Wanyama.

 

[brumspur]

I played center back and I would never have done what Davinson did. It was terrible defending.

Did you Play to a decent standard?????????

 

[TheSpurEst]

Imo Winks-Sissoko is not gonna work, Winks-NDombele is not gonna work, Sissoko-NDombele is not gonna work. All these 3 players need a partner that knows how to defend.

I am not sure how Poch sees our midfield this year but we really needed to buy a player like Ndidi or Gueye to replace Wanyama.

FINALLY someone said it.
We might not need DM in every game, but we would in most games.

But ffs how often people come around and tell that we don't need one against lesser teams.
Well fook me, we could have used one against Villa, we could have used against Newcastle!