Davinson Sanchez

[Freundian slip]

It was Iong hopeful aimless punt by Mings. No centre back in world football clears it because its so hopeful it literally bypasses our defence.

Rose comes round to cover as your full back is meant to. Hesitates and allows McGinn to get through instead of clearing it. Mate, we've had this discussion, I've posted the video to prove it.

Infact, I'll post it again.



15 seconds in. Hesitation. Rose of old clears it, seen it plenty of times. However we don't have Rose of old.

Rose didnt do ANYTHING well for the Villa goal. Not only does he fail to clear due to his hesitation, he stupidly goes to ground instead of standing McGinn up.

Rose is done. He's a waste of place in the team. Cannot defend, as evident by being involved in 3 of the 4 goals we've conceded this season, cannot attack, cannot cross.

I'm not surprised we wanted to fuck him off to Watford.

Anyone blaming Sanchez for that goal is brain dead. Worryingly, all of our back four have now been involved in the goals we've conceded.

Villa - Rose (Sissoko not tracking runner)
City - KWP, Rose, Alderweireld.
Newcastle - Sanchez, Rose, Alderweireld

Based on that alone, Vertonghen should probably come back in the team. Davies too.

Agree the whole defence has been shaky but what you don't see on that video is how Rose was marking the right winger (forget his name) but as soon as he see's that ball and McGinn's run from CM (past Moussa) he manages to get right across the pitch to cover. The right winger gets absolutely nowhere near the attack in the same space of time.

Going round in circles a bit but I think he's been our best performer at the back, which isn't a good thing

 

[Totti]

Agree the whole defence has been shaky but what you don't see on that video is how Rose was marking the right winger (forget his name) but as soon as he see's that ball and McGinn's run from CM (past Moussa) he manages to get right across the pitch to cover. The right winger gets absolutely nowhere near the attack in the same space of time.

Going round in circles a bit but I think he's been our best performer at the back, which isn't a good thing

He may well have been, but he still should have cleared the ball. He didn't. That's on him.

I'm not going to credit Rose for leaving his marker and managing to get right across the pitch when he does fuck all when he gets there.

Rose has been our best performer at the back? He's 100% been our absolute worst. By quite a distance.

Its crazy how people can see things so differently. Football ey?

 

[Freundian slip]

He may well have been, but he still should have cleared the ball. He didn't. That's on him.

I'm not going to credit Rose for leaving his marker and managing to get right across the pitch when he does fuck all when he gets there.

Rose has been our best performer at the back? He's 100% been our absolute worst. By quite a distance.

Its crazy how people can see things so differently. Football ey?

Yeah fair enough, different views, just feel like KWP has been pretty useless (wasn't even in shot when that goal went in) and we really miss Jan.

 

[brumspur]

Agree the whole defence has been shaky but what you don't see on that video is how Rose was marking the right winger (forget his name) but as soon as he see's that ball and McGinn's run from CM (past Moussa) he manages to get right across the pitch to cover. The right winger gets absolutely nowhere near the attack in the same space of time.

Going round in circles a bit but I think he's been our best performer at the back, which isn't a good thing

No two ways around it Rose at fault for both villa and Newcastle goals - elementary defending - the full back should be covering its basic stuff and the full backs in my Old under 13 team would know full well they had fucked up if they didn’t read situations like that - I guess poch doesn’t bother working on team shape when not in possession of the ball!

 

[Totti]

No two ways around it Rose at fault for both villa and Newcastle goals - elementary defending - the full back should be covering its basic stuff and the full backs in my Old under 13 team would know full well they had fucked up if they didn’t read situations like that - I guess poch doesn’t bother working on team shape when not in possession of the ball!

Yep. When the ball is on the opposite side of the pitch, you tuck in and cover round. As you say, elementary.

It's twice this season it's happened in 3 games and we've conceded from it. Almost certainly something teams will use to target us going forward if we keep it up.

 

[ArjyBarjy]

Rose was probably at fault however we need a leader at the back and Jan was our leader. Toby and Dav do not look like leaders to me that can command the defensive line and be dominant to the level we need. They are good partners for someone like Jan though.

 

[Freundian slip]

No two ways around it Rose at fault for both villa and Newcastle goals - elementary defending - the full back should be covering its basic stuff and the full backs in my Old under 13 team would know full well they had fucked up if they didn’t read situations like that - I guess poch doesn’t bother working on team shape when not in possession of the ball!

That doesn't add up, CB's nowhere to be seen for either goal and KWP well...despite McGinn scoring from the right you can't even see the lad on the TV replays. Rose hasn't been done over in a one v one by a winger yet but KWP has been plenty of times this season already. McGinn was playing centre mid but noone is saying "where was Sissoko"? No way the blame lies solely at Rose's feet.

I'd wager as soon as possible KWP will be dropped for Foyth and Rose will keep his place.

 

[Totti]

That doesn't add up, CB's nowhere to be seen for either goal and KWP well...despite McGinn scoring from the right you can't even see the lad on the TV replays. Rose hasn't been done over in a one v one by a winger yet but KWP has been plenty of times this season already. McGinn was playing centre mid but noone is saying "where was Sissoko"? No way the blame lies solely at Rose's feet.

I'd wager as soon as possible KWP will be dropped for Foyth and Rose will keep his place.

Centre back nowhere to be seen
- Alderweireld looks to be covering KWP due to his high press, though marking no one. Sanchez is marking Wesley. No real issues with the centre halves, though Alderweireld could have potentially marked Wesley and told Sanchez to drop a bit deeper. He didn't - but the centre backs are clearly there, doing some kind of job.

You cannot see KWP on the replays
That'd be because if you watched the actual video of the goal, kWP was pressing high up the pitch as the ball was on his side. Just like Rose would have been pressing high up on the left if it was there. You're even bringing KWP in this? That sounds like an agenda.

Rose hasn't been done one v one by a winger
Perhaps not, but he cost us against Villa with poor positioning. He cost us against City by not getting close to his man and he cost us against Newcastle by being far too wide and not covering his man. Whereas KWP has arguably cost us one goal, against one of the best footballers in the league.

No one is saying where was Sissoko
I think you'll find people are saying where was Sissoko - he didn't follow his runner, he never does. But once that phase of play is gone, it's then on Rose to clear it. McGinn has ALOT to do after he's run away from Sissoko and his job is made easier not only by Rose failing to cover and clear the ball, but it's made even easier when Rose embarrassingly goes to ground in the box.

Every goal conceded is a mistake somewhere on the pitch but it's the last error that will always get picked up on - nature of the game. Which is why Rose will get more blame than Sissoko in this situation. Though Sissoko is also culpable.

 

[Freundian slip]

Centre back nowhere to be seen
- Alderweireld looks to be covering KWP due to his high press, though marking no one. Sanchez is marking Wesley. No real issues with the centre halves, though Alderweireld could have potentially marked Wesley and told Sanchez to drop a bit deeper. He didn't - but the centre backs are clearly there, doing some kind of job.

You cannot see KWP on the replays
That'd be because if you watched the actual video of the goal, kWP was pressing high up the pitch as the ball was on his side. Just like Rose would have been pressing high up on the left if it was there. You're even bringing KWP in this? That sounds like an agenda.

Rose hasn't been done one v one by a winger
Perhaps not, but he cost us against Villa with poor positioning. He cost us against City by not getting close to his man and he cost us against Newcastle by being far too wide and not covering his man. Whereas KWP has arguably cost us one goal, against one of the best footballers in the league.

No one is saying where was Sissoko
I think you'll find people are saying where was Sissoko - he didn't follow his runner, he never does. But once that phase of play is gone, it's then on Rose to clear it. McGinn has ALOT to do after he's run away from Sissoko and his job is made easier not only by Rose failing to cover and clear the ball, but it's made even easier when Rose embarrassingly goes to ground in the box.

Haha, I like your passion and some good points but if people were saying "where was Sissoko" then how is this still Rose's fault? Also the "Rose didn't clear it" one doesn't make sense though as he never had the ball to clear it, he was tracking back and got in front of McGinn (who had the ball), in a split second at full speed he has to work out whether to stand up or slide to cover the near post, McGinn did well by sitting him down and it's a good finish, not the fault of Rose.

I just think it's a shit goal, as a CB you can't spot a long ball coming but your full back always should? Two balls go over Davinson's head for those goals but Rose is getting grief for it despite being the only player close to stopping both? So we're basically saying that our CB's can just chill out because Rose should be covering...lol

By the way I'm not Danny Rose

PS fair point on KWP, just didn't see him busting his ass to get back in like Rose did.

 

[Spursidol]

Centre back nowhere to be seen
- Alderweireld looks to be covering KWP due to his high press, though marking no one. Sanchez is marking Wesley. No real issues with the centre halves, though Alderweireld could have potentially marked Wesley and told Sanchez to drop a bit deeper. He didn't - but the centre backs are clearly there, doing some kind of job.

You cannot see KWP on the replays
That'd be because if you watched the actual video of the goal, kWP was pressing high up the pitch as the ball was on his side. Just like Rose would have been pressing high up on the left if it was there. You're even bringing KWP in this? That sounds like an agenda.

Rose hasn't been done one v one by a winger
Perhaps not, but he cost us against Villa with poor positioning. He cost us against City by not getting close to his man and he cost us against Newcastle by being far too wide and not covering his man. Whereas KWP has arguably cost us one goal, against one of the best footballers in the league.

No one is saying where was Sissoko
I think you'll find people are saying where was Sissoko - he didn't follow his runner, he never does. But once that phase of play is gone, it's then on Rose to clear it. McGinn has ALOT to do after he's run away from Sissoko and his job is made easier not only by Rose failing to cover and clear the ball, but it's made even easier when Rose embarrassingly goes to ground in the box.

Every goal conceded is a mistake somewhere on the pitch but it's the last error that will always get picked up on - nature of the game. Which is why Rose will get more blame than Sissoko in this situation. Though Sissoko is also culpable.

The bit which is a surprise to me is that we have started the same defend in all 3 games - Rose Sanchez Alderweireld Walker,-Peters yet the goals conceded are a fault of both individual players and a lack of coordination of the defence.

To me that means either or both of a lack of coaching the defensive unit as a whole ( before the matches and the lack of an on field leader

Worrying ?

 

[Totti]

Haha, I like your passion and some good points but if people were saying "where was Sissoko" then how is this still Rose's fault? Also the "Rose didn't clear it" one doesn't make sense though as he never had the ball to clear it, he was tracking back and got in front of McGinn (who had the ball), in a split second at full speed he has to work out whether to stand up or slide to cover the near post, McGinn did well by sitting him down and it's a good finish, not the fault of Rose.

I just think it's a shit goal, as a CB you can't spot a long ball coming but your full back always should? Two balls go over Davinson's head for those goals but Rose is getting grief for it despite being the only player close to stopping both? So we're basically saying that our CB's can just chill out because Rose should be covering...lol

By the way I'm not Danny Rose

PS fair point on KWP, just didn't see him busting his ass to get back in like Rose did.

Because Rose was the last point of action. He had the chance to cover round and clear it and then had the chance to stay on his feet when McGinn was in the box but sells himself and makes it even easier for him.

Rose hesitated when covering round. I've shown you the video, go check it out. 15 seconds in to the clip. The ball bounces and instead of Rose just either taking a touch or knocking it away, he slows down, hesitates and McGinn takes it forward - whether or not he was scared of taking McGinn out or not, I don't know - but it was poor defending and poor positioning. Again, elementary stuff. When the ball is on the opposite side of the field, you cover inside. Rose didn't. And now that's two games in three that he's done it.

The ball was over hit by Mings - he wasn't aiming for McGinn - our centre backs could have done absolutely nothing to deal with it. Unless you're seriously telling me Sanchez could have dealt with a ball thats about 30 feet above his head? - I'm not saying your full backs should always spot a long ball but they should ALWAYS be covering round.

 

[Spursidol]

Haha, I like your passion and some good points but if people were saying "where was Sissoko" then how is this still Rose's fault? Also the "Rose didn't clear it" one doesn't make sense though as he never had the ball to clear it, he was tracking back and got in front of McGinn (who had the ball), in a split second at full speed he has to work out whether to stand up or slide to cover the near post, McGinn did well by sitting him down and it's a good finish, not the fault of Rose.

I just think it's a shit goal, as a CB you can't spot a long ball coming but your full back always should? Two balls go over Davinson's head for those goals but Rose is getting grief for it despite being the only player close to stopping both? So we're basically saying that our CB's can just chill out because Rose should be covering...lol

By the way I'm not Danny Rose

PS fair point on KWP, just didn't see him busting his ass to get back in like Rose did.

I'd suggest most people say Sissoko made a mistake.

However once Sissoko is out of the way, the onus falls on the defence to stop the opposition - and that's where Rose is culpable in making the wrong decision to sit down.

But it's not just Rose being held responsible, it's Sissoko as well for that goal

 

[Kekerinho]

It's funny that our defence is probably at its worst state in the Poch era yet he doesn't utilize a DM to shield the backline. Winks nor Sissoko is a DM. I thought that both goals conceded v Villa and Newcastle were avoidable if we had a DM.

 

[AlabamaSpur]

It's funny that our defence is probably at its worst state in the Poch era yet he doesn't utilize a DM to shield the backline. Winks nor Sissoko is a DM. I thought that both goals conceded v Villa and Newcastle were avoidable if we had a DM.

I'm hoping Dier will be back soon to fill that role.

 

[Totti]

The bit which is a surprise to me is that we have started the same defend in all 3 games - Rose Sanchez Alderweireld Walker,-Peters yet the goals conceded are a fault of both individual players and a lack of coordination of the defence.

To me that means either or both of a lack of coaching the defensive unit as a whole ( before the matches and the lack of an on field leader

Worrying ?

I didn't have a problem with us starting the same defence - I like consistency, especially at the back. Rose error aside, i thought our defending against Villa was fine. That particular weekend we let the least amount of shots on our goal out of any team in the league - against City, bar the narrow full back system Poch implemented, again I thought we defended well on the whole for 90 minutes, we limited City to shots from distance.

But it's evident after just 3 games that Rose is done and it's probably best to either put Sanchez on the right hand side where he's strongest or bring Vertonghen back in the team.

I think we'll see a changed defensive line-up for the NLD

 

[AlabamaSpur]

I didn't have a problem with us starting the same defence - I like consistency, especially at the back. Rose error aside, i thought our defending against Villa was fine. That particular weekend we let the least amount of shots on our goal out of any team in the league - against City, bar the narrow full back system Poch implemented, again I thought we defended well on the whole for 90 minutes, we limited City to shots from distance.

But it's evident after just 3 games that Rose is done and it's probably best to either put Sanchez on the right hand side where he's strongest or bring Vertonghen back in the team.

I think we'll see a changed defensive line-up for the NLD

I think you nailed with the back 3 in the match thread.

 

[Freundian slip]

Because Rose was the last point of action. He had the chance to cover round and clear it and then had the chance to stay on his feet when McGinn was in the box but sells himself and makes it even easier for him.

Rose hesitated when covering round. I've shown you the video, go check it out. 15 seconds in to the clip. The ball bounces and instead of Rose just either taking a touch or knocking it away, he slows down, hesitates and McGinn takes it forward - whether or not he was scared of taking McGinn out or not, I don't know - but it was poor defending and poor positioning. Again, elementary stuff. When the ball is on the opposite side of the field, you cover inside. Rose didn't. And now that's two games in three that he's done it.

The ball was over hit by Mings - he wasn't aiming for McGinn - our centre backs could have done absolutely nothing to deal with it. Unless you're seriously telling me Sanchez could have dealt with a ball thats about 30 feet above his head? - I'm not saying your full backs should always spot a long ball but they should ALWAYS be covering round.

I'm not sure you've watched it, the ball bounces about 2 yards behind Davinson, 100% guarantee you if that's Jan he just spots it coming, avoids wrestling for no reason and losing his position, takes a few steps back while watching the ball and heads it away.

Rose never had the opportunity to clear it as McGinn nodded it past him and he's not even level...agree he got sat down but he can't win, if he doesn't go down McGinn has another angle, he's just trying to help Hugo by cutting off one of the options as he knows he can't do both.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Do we not remember how piss poor Vertonghen was during the 14/15 season? At the age of 27?

Sanchez is 23 years old. Play him on his right side. With a partner he's had success with and he'll improve tremendously. Need to back him, especially when he can put in performances like the one against City.

So.... we should be all O.K if he plays 4 more bad seasons (so 5 in total)?
Or if what you suggest is true, we should have brought some more experienced CB's and not be counting on Sanchez as 1st or 2nd choice?

 

[Totti]

I'm not sure you've watched it, the ball bounces about 2 yards behind Davinson, 100% guarantee you if that's Jan he just spots it coming, avoids wrestling for no reason and losing his position, takes a few steps back while watching the ball and heads it away.

Ey? Are you sure you've watched it?

Sanchez did exactly what a centre half SHOULD be doing, on his man and making sure he doesn’t get a sniff of the ball.

It's not really Sanchez's fault that he isn't 15 feet taller to enable him to head the ball clear. It was a freak goal that occurred because of an overhit ball by the Villa defender.

You can 100% guarantee that can you?

Because Vertonghen has NEVER been done by a long ball before.

Rose never had the opportunity to clear it as McGinn nodded it past him and he's not even level...agree he got sat down but he can't win, if he doesn't go down McGinn has another angle, he's just trying to help Hugo by cutting off one of the options as he knows he can't do both.

BECAUSE HE HESITATED. How many times do I have to say it? Will capital letters make you understand? Watch the bloody clip.

Sanchez is the LAST person who gets blamed for that goal out of anyone involved. Centre back marks striker and gets blamed for a goal that's scored by a central midfielder. Work that one out.

 

[Totti]

So.... we should be all O.K if he plays 4 more bad seasons (so 5 in total)?
Or if what you suggest is true, we should have brought some more experienced CB's and not be counting on Sanchez as 1st or 2nd choice?

No - but we should probably back him after one error this season.

He's 23 years old, having to suffer playing alongside Danny Rose on his weaker side. Would be nice to have Sanchez/Vertonghen partnership back though. Gave us some great performances together during the 17/18 season.