Champions League finalists Liverpool and Tottenham now worlds apart

[sammyspurs]

Oh no! Topnum joined today at 2pm and disagrees with any post that doesn’t suck off the Liverpool squad!!

Must be a real Spurs fan

 

[Chester/ Yukon]

Liverpool spent 75M on a 27yr old CB with 3 international caps

Spurs spent 1bn on a new ground

I wonder which investment will still be valid in two years

To be be fair Sammy their stadium is pretty good and far more iconic.
They don't need a billion pound stadium but they needed a world class CB.
Personally dude l would say they got it right.
Champs of the world doesn't lie brother.

 

[Col_McCafferty]

We are losers. The end. If there is any way we can balls it up and fuck ourselves over, we will.

Fuck off you cunt.

 

[BangkokSpud]

They sold a midfield player who was past his sell by date for 145m they then used that money to buy proven quality players ... Poch kept Eriksen and we bought nobody ....

As already pointed out Liverpool spent ZERO this summer so by the logic off all the Levy's fault crowd Liverpool are finished next year, is that right?

 

[peter merison]

"If you want the biggest and best train set down your road ,you have to go out and buy it,no one is going to give it to you" - jimmy Greaves said this about owning and being a successful a football club in the latter 90's.
And he is right, even more so nowadays

 

[Darnswim]

The thing is, they deserved to be in the CL final last season, we were miles behind the genuine elite teams in Europe and still are, goes without saying.

On a normal day teams like Barcelona, PSG and Bayern would absolutely murder us and it remains to be seems whether we can beat RB Leipzig.. If anyone still thinks that will be easy

Didn't we beat the "best team in Europe" last season in the quarter-finals though? We're behind the elite, but we can beat the elite as well.

 

[FightingIllini]

Didn't we beat the "best team in Europe" last season in the quarter-finals though? We're behind the elite, but we can beat the elite as well.

So we're Wolves. Super.

 

[JIMINHO]

The big difference between Klopp’s Liverpool and Poch’s Spurs was that Klopp was given the money to buy players. Klopp identified the areas that needed improvement and he bought world class players to fill those positions. Read the link below, almost every player he has signed has become a hit. They probably have the most balanced team in world football. World class goalie, world class CB, two of the best full backs in the world, three midfields who are absolute workhorses, and a dynamic world class front three. Plus the fact that their players rarely seem to be injured. They literally haven’t put a foot wrong the last 2/3 seasons. If Liverpool and Klopp play their cards right, they could be at the top for years to come.

As for us, the 16/17 was our best season under Poch. We played some great football that season but two things happened at the end of it: we moved out of White Hart Lane at the worst possible time as we just competed an unbeaten season and we didn’t capitalize on the momentum we set ourselves by making some important signing. Walker left that summer and we swapped him out for Aurier. My feelings toward him are well documented and Dembele started to lose some of his powers. We undoubtedly missed a step the summer of 2017 whereas Klopp has brought Liverpool from strength to strength. For all the talk about Man City the last few years, Liverpool might just go unbeaten and set a new points record this season.

So in summary, Liverpool’s board backed Klopp and it’s paying dividends. Spurs board did not back Poch to the extent it needed to and when it eventually gave Poch the funding he needed, it was too little too late. I have every faith in Mourinho as the guy is a winner but if he can’t do it, then boy, that sucks.

Klopp’s Transfers
Poch’s Transfers

 

[John Thomas]

Then I put it to you that you don't understand the words within the context they're written. That's ok though, John.... No-one expects you not to be blinkered and superficial.

I'll save you the bother of replying...

JT; now, then and forever: "Spend more".

Yes Daniel

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

I did not enjoy reading that article so didn't finish it.

It is very simple:
1. They made the right signings as and when needed without compromise on cost. All new players making immediate impact on the starting XI.

2. Season 2018/19 without any recruitment.

3. Season 2019/20: Poch making noises in the press to sign/overhaul. Levy wants to shut him and signs 3 players. We are half way to the season and those 3 ineffective. 2 seasons wasted, ie: going backward on the field, hence the article.

Apart from - probably Chelsea and a couple of mid-table overachievers - that article could have been about any other Prem team. Tbh, it could also have been about Liverpool and City. Big picture is that Liverpool are having a crazy season - no-one else is.

 

[Clynelish]

I think they were lucky enough to be in the final too. I think Barca thought it was job done and were undone by some silly mistakes.

They played pretty good at Barcelona despite the final score and bossed it at Anfield, gotta respect that.

 

[scott]

Yep - but they only bought the odd player here and there - we ‘won’ the transfer window with the Bale money; we spent (or promised to spend) 140m this summer - Liverpool plugged gaps with ‘better’ players.

the issue, as I suspect we’ll get into a circular argument about, is that there aren’t that many ‘better’ players that can be bought in for most positions at an acceptable price. (And this will now be the same for most clubs - can’t see Chelsea spending big on replacing their ageing players this window even though Frank’s said they will do). EPL standard is basically all internationals and so it’s a marginal improvement at best for 50-60m.

the problem we have is that we need to plug several gaps at once as players have grown old or left - and that is the fault of Poch or the scouts - can’t place it at Levy’s door - he’s always spent on players if asked (albeit Saha, Nelsen and Gallas!). A window of no movement is not Levy, but the manager and the high quality of the team in place.
Based on this logic - we may see a bit of movement this month, but that will depend on moving in Eriksen, Rose etcetera. As contracts expire, more movement come the summer, I expect.

Yeah I think we won't agree on this one. They easily outspent most of the league. Massive advantage. 1 of the biggest wage bills too. You need great coaches like fergie BUT a lot of investment on players too. We don't invest like that so it's not surprising we are a top 4 at best team. 1 league cup in 18 years under ENIC, you can keep blaming managers levy chooses but I think him & the owners are the main reason for not winning much.

 

[John Thomas]

Yep - but they only bought the odd player here and there - we ‘won’ the transfer window with the Bale money; we spent (or promised to spend) 140m this summer - Liverpool plugged gaps with ‘better’ players.

We 'lost' the transfer window by selling a world class one of a kind player who was winning games for Spurs single handedly and replacing him with a lucky dip of players for the future, misfits and shite....

 

[peter merison]

Someone has to make the train set? That’s why you have a coach.

OK, I'll give you Orients first 11 , go coach them and win the Premier league

 

[Airfixx]

Soldado wasn't bought with the Bale money though.....

He was one of the 'magnificent' seven.

 

[BangkokSpud]

Spurs fans should fear four years of Mourinho’s small-minded cynicism
Desperate negativity of his approach to playing Liverpool at home is José Mourinho’s management style in microcosm

Jonathan Liew

For around half an hour on Saturday evening Liverpool looked flawed. Roared on by a capacity crowd, Tottenham slung themselves forward in waves – attacking the spaces, pinging crosses across the box, getting shots away. The substitutes Giovani Lo Celso and Érik Lamela grabbed control of the game in the middle third, often by sheer force of will alone. The irrepressible Lucas Moura scrapped and slalomed his way into threatening positions. Big chances came and went.

And then it was all over. Liverpool sauntered off the pitch, their work complete, their lead at the top of the Premier League looking more ridiculously impregnable with every passing week.

José Mourinho talked about having a “good feeling” from the game, claiming that his team deserved at least a draw and based on those last 20 minutes he had a decent case. It was almost enough to make you wonder how Tottenham might have fared had they decided to play for the full 90.

After all, the chaotic denouement was merely the final act of a game in which Spurs had been at best partial protagonists. In a way that late flurry merely illustrated the folly of their initial approach: cagey and closed, low and deep, spurning possession and inviting pressure. Their first-half possession was 27%. Son Heung-min, their best attacking player, did not have a single touch in the Liverpool half between the 30th minute and the 60th. None of which would stop Mourinho attempting to spin this basic poverty of ambition as some ingenious masterplan.



“If we tried to play the way we did in the last 20 minutes from the beginning,” he said, “I think we would collapse. Because the players are not used to playing in this style and they are not adapted. We did the maximum we could do.”

This is the founding principle of Mourinho-ball: the opposition are infinitely strong, we are infinitely weak. Already in his short Tottenham career Mourinho has told Moussa Sissoko that he lacks the discipline to play in central midfield, accused Ryan Sessegnon of lacking physicality, criticised Tanguy Ndombele for getting injured too much and claimed that Tottenham cannot play their normal game while Harry Kane is injured, even though they managed to reach a Champions League final without him.

In essence it’s a form of managerial negging: chipping away at the self-esteem of the club until it is no longer able to resist the twin lures of Mourinho’s silver-tongued genius and his lavish demands for transfer investment.

Admittedly this is a far easier sell when you are playing a Liverpool side that had 58 points in 20 games, boasting the triple threat of Sadio Mané, Roberto Firmino and Mohamed Salah. Admittedly Mourinho has had some past success in nullifying the threat of Salah. Alas, leaving him on the bench at Stamford Bridge for a year and then sending him on loan to Fiorentina is no longer a viable option. And so in the face of Liverpool’s famous front three, Mourinho offered up a jaunty bespoke solution: a double right-back, with Serge Aurier playing just ahead of the 20-year-old debutant Japhet Tanganga.

Like many of Mourinho’s wheezes these days it was both imaginative and desperately cynical, a strategy geared towards containment that ultimately worked for only as long as it took for the novelty to wear off.

Around half an hour in, Gini Wijnaldum began to push a little higher, restoring Liverpool’s numerical superiority on the left, and two clear openings came from that flank before the throw-in that produced Firmino’s goal.

Liverpool could have been out of sight by the time Lo Celso and Lamela arrived with 20 minutes to go: a £90m double substitution that is worth bearing in mind the next time Mourinho moans about the lack of resources available to him.

In a way it scarcely matters that Mourinho’s tactics almost worked or that they ultimately didn’t. The point is that Tottenham – a team that reached a Champions League final seven months ago and have spent much of the past few years playing some of the most scintillating attacking football in the club’s history – is already being recast in his image.

Excuses are beginning to supplant expectations. A culture of pessimism and restraint is taking hold, when losing 1-0 at home with 33% possession can legitimately be sold as an encouraging sign of progress. The motto of the new Tottenham may as well be “To Play Two Right-Backs Is To Do”.

It took Mauricio Pochettino half a decade to purge Tottenham of their jaded mid-table mentality and even the mediocre Spurs sides of the 1990s would always have a go at home, no matter how strong the opposition, however low the morale of the club.

This is the legacy that Mourinho is busily sweeping aside. He narrows your horizons, convinces you not to get ideas above your station, warns you to stop the opposition first and only then to think about playing. All this has taken him eight weeks. Imagine what he can do in four years.

Neatly ignores the fact that Mourinho's hopeless grasp of tactics have won his teams over twenty trophies .. but what do trophies matter?

Jonathan Liew is to football what a turd is to a pool party .... simply not pleasant at all.

 

[sammyspurs]

To be be fair Sammy their stadium is pretty good and far more iconic.
They don't need a billion pound stadium but they needed a world class CB.
Personally dude l would say they got it right.
Champs of the world doesn't lie brother.

They got it right but they also got the choice of manager right.
Klopp would have won stuff with our squad.

Poch would have had Salah in central midfield

 

[BangkokSpud]

We are losers. The end. If there is any way we can balls it up and fuck ourselves over, we will.

Who's we? - Woolwich, Dipper, Spammer, Chav which type of cunt are you?

 

[Deleted member 13260]

Some interesting points on here, though perhaps over analysing too.

The way I look at it, Tottenham had what I shall refer to as a 'natural level' of around 4th - 6th place, and were finishing 2nd - 4th above our natural level. This isn't looking purely at players on the pitch, but the stadium (Old WHL), income, fan base and everything related to a football club.

Liverpool had a natural level of around 2nd - 4th but were finishing 2nd - 8th, around and below their natural level.

Now I would say Spurs have a natural level of around 3rd - 5th, and we can guess this season we finish 4th - 8th, around or below our natural level.. and Liverpool now have a natural level around 1st - 3rd, where I expect them to end up again.

Basically there's no huge drama. Liverpool have been a lot bigger than us for a long time. Anfield was a huge part of this, their history, salary outgoings and what is often overlooked when comparing both clubs transfer activity - player pulling power. Lots of their best signings probably wouldn't have wanted to join Spurs unless we went silly on wages like Chelsea and Man City did with their daddies credit cards. Not a model I would been keen nor proud to follow, regardless of their success.

I'm sorry to say it, but it's not simply all about scouts, recruitment strategy, Levy etc. A huge factor, particularly with foreign players - is the name Liverpool. We are nowhere near them in terms of name. We may post stats, profits, figures or whatever to argue that, but at the end of the day players look at salaries, and club profiles (trophies won). We are behind them on both, so 'naturally' ought to be behind them in the league. I thoroughly enjoyed our seasons finishing above them with no right to.

I joked in a thread last year about visiting Morocco.. Talking to locals about football, asking who you support - the response to "Tottenham" was once "ahh yes, Tottingham Forest - I know, Clough!" .. and this Spring (just before the Ajax first leg) it was "ahh yes, Harry Kane - beat Manchester City in Champions League".
We need to continue on that path. We need kids that are the next global football superstars who are currently 5-10 years old to see us playing in the Champions League, know our name, see us competing with the biggest teams on the planet, and doing ourselves proud like we did in last seasons campaign.
Levy has been working really hard on raising that global image but I think the rewards from that could be 10+ years away. At the same time he has remained true with increasing our player salaries in line with our increased income.

Just because we finished above Liverpool a lot recently never made us a bigger, higher profile club than them. We played above our natural level while they played below theirs. The way I look at it, the gap to them has been consistently closing over the last 10 years in terms of stature.

 

[BernardMatthews]

oh look, the happy clappers who can't face the truth are crying and pissing in their little panties.

ban him! he said a bad thing!!

Then use words like cunt, mug, wanker etc to make yourselves feel better.

Every word I said is true. ACCEPT IT.

So we are losers eh.

Explain this then! Captured forever in glorious technicolour.
Screensaver on my phone, computer and framed in my living room. What a snapshot in our history so far.

Losers!! Not where I’m standing.