Standing still is falling behind

[spursmalc]

Losing still hurts as much as it ever did. I deliberately missed the build up on Sky and turned the TV off as soon as the final whistle went and went into the garden to cut the grass (had we won it would have waited until today while I watched the feedback)
Having said all that too many of you are going over the top. Talking about dropping players when we have players injured and a busy schedule coming up and need 18 players each match day. Several players are not match fit after injury and others tired including Son who also needs a rest. The evidence when Kane and Eriksen are rested in Cup matches is that the performance is poorer. They are better off form than others like Llorente. Davies and Sanchez are not dropped and were subs yesterday and likely to play in one of the next 2 matches. Dier will have to play in the next 2 weeks as we will need him. This season was always going to be difficult after the World Cup,extra away games and moving into the new home and the delay has made it worse.
The squad will need to be managed over the next few weeks but there is reason to believe that we will get better once everyone is match fit and over the WC.
It is clear from Poch's comments that not buying anyone was NOT plan A. It is a surprise that players that we said we would listen to offers are still here but that is better than them leaving and being replaced by a poorer player as Walker/Aurier. We have no availability to buy an overseas player limiting our options.
We have played 2 of the top 6 teams already and are in all cup competitions. We will have more home games than away games later in the season which will help.
Stop being so gloomy we can still have a good season!

 

[John Thomas]

Take the Toby incident. He dropped him for half a season. People claimed Toby is world class and we're weaker without him yet wont say that it was handled badly.

Toby is world class and the situation was handled badly.
I said so at the time and I'll say it again.
Your pretending stuff wasn't said just to suit your own narrative, again.
Here, take a look at this, from the SF match thread

The decision to leave players like Toby and Hugo on the bench and play weaker alternatives in such a massive game is a fucking disgrace. It's an insult to the fans.

 

[sammyspurs]

Toby is world class, and the situation was handled badly.
He should have played more, and Poch made a criminal football decision in leaving him and Hugo out of the semi final.
I said it at the time, as did many others.
You're pretending stuff wasn't said to suit your own narrative, again.

Its no more of a narrative than yours though, and Im not leaving out a thing.

Are you saying that people wildly rounded on Poch as making a "criminal" decision regarding Toby?
Thats a lie.

Peoples initial reaction was to pretend Toby had suffered a set back or second injury, and that was why he was not in the squad so as not to slag off Poch. Here is a post from April I made arguing against the ridiculous claims:

Toby played for Belgium.......did Lamela play for Argentina in the time he was said to still be injured?


Thats been made up today to suit an argument because the person who made it up cant bring themselves to criticise Poch for dumping Toby from the squad.
Again, he played a game for Belgium. There was no set back between the time he was declared fit and played the two FA Cup games, up to the Brighton game.

“I feel good. I feel fit. I’m strong. I feel ready to give 100 per cent again, like I always do. I worked very hard to come back to the training group as quickly as possible. Not one thing in my head is doubting about the injury."
”Now it’s up to me to prove that I’m ready again to the manager. It’s always up to the manager (if I play). I’m looking forward to give my all on the pitch.”
Toby on Jan 23

He then didnt play until Feb 7 against Newport, then Feb 18 against Rochdale

His next game for us was this wk end gone, nearly two months to the day.

He did however play for Belgium on March 27th, slap bang in the middle of the period he was dropped for Spurs.
So when was this recurrence of the injury? Between Feb 18-March 27? Or March 27-April 17 (Brighton).

If the latter, its pretty weird he made fitness, and got himself picked in three weeks.

And if the former, he did well to convince his International manager there was no fitness issue, as stated by Martinez, and get himself picked to play.

Pochettino said on Feb 12 he couldnt face Juve as it was too early.

Thats over 2 months ago. Since then there has not been a single article or mention of Toby being out of the squad due to a second injury. He had a set back in December, way before he was ever declared fit.

Its incredible that people are making up fake news, as if it cant simply all be proven as bullshit by a simple google search of the actual facts.

You're the one making things up, or simply refusuing to address the things that make you feel uncomfortable.

Its all very well saying Poch made a "criminal decision" to drop Toby when it suits, but then you are claiming Levy is the reason we are falling short.

You just admitted Poch removed a world class defender from our team, the team suffered because of it, to which I can only assumer we are still suffering due to the awful 7 months he's had.
Then tomorrow you will claim Poch is working miracles with the crap players he had dumped on him.
If we dropped points or missed out on a FA Cup due to Pochs treatment of Toby (as well as dropping Lloris for that game), how the hell would investing in the squad change that?

And what makes you feel the manager is not a massive part of the problem, if you feel he capable of such poor man management?

Im assuming the second quote was referring to the Utd semi?
One game in half a season, you criticised the decision.

 

[sammyspurs]

And why have you edited and toned down your post from "criminal decision" to "handled badly"

Too late, I already quoted the original

 

[NW1Spur]

Losing still hurts as much as it ever did. I deliberately missed the build up on Sky and turned the TV off as soon as the final whistle went and went into the garden to cut the grass (had we won it would have waited until today while I watched the feedback)
Having said all that too many of you are going over the top. Talking about dropping players when we have players injured and a busy schedule coming up and need 18 players each match day. Several players are not match fit after injury and others tired including Son who also needs a rest. The evidence when Kane and Eriksen are rested in Cup matches is that the performance is poorer. They are better off form than others like Llorente. Davies and Sanchez are not dropped and were subs yesterday and likely to play in one of the next 2 matches. Dier will have to play in the next 2 weeks as we will need him. This season was always going to be difficult after the World Cup,extra away games and moving into the new home and the delay has made it worse.
The squad will need to be managed over the next few weeks but there is reason to believe that we will get better once everyone is match fit and over the WC.
It is clear from Poch's comments that not buying anyone was NOT plan A. It is a surprise that players that we said we would listen to offers are still here but that is better than them leaving and being replaced by a poorer player as Walker/Aurier. We have no availability to buy an overseas player limiting our options.
We have played 2 of the top 6 teams already and are in all cup competitions. We will have more home games than away games later in the season which will help.
Stop being so gloomy we can still have a good season!

No one's going over the top - we've been atrocious in the last two games and we weren't that great in the three games we won. And worse, all our rivals are getting better and bbetter.We play a different formation every game and it's all becoming a bit random. Dier on the right is something out of the twilight zone.

The lack of transfers, the stadium saga... Things aren't great at the moment. Lose at the San Siro and we'll be struggling to get out of the group.

 

[sammyspurs]

we've been atrocious in the last two games and we weren't that great in the three games we won. We play a different formation every game and it's all becoming a bit random. Dier on the right is something out of the twilight zone.

And still no leveling of both barrels at the manager

Still just...

The lack of transfers, the stadium saga...

:gallas:

 

[John Thomas]

Its no more of a narrative than yours though, and Im not leaving out a thing.

Are you saying that people wildly rounded on Poch as making a "criminal" decision regarding Toby?
Thats a lie.

Peoples initial reaction was to pretend Toby had suffered a set back or second injury, and that was why he was not in the squad so as not to slag off Poch. Here is a post from April I made arguing against the ridiculous claims:



You're the one making things up, or simply refusuing to address the things that make you feel uncomfortable.

Its all very well saying Poch made a "criminal decision" to drop Toby when it suits, but then you are claiming Levy is the reason we are falling short.

You just admitted Poch removed a world class defender from our team, the team suffered because of it, to which I can only assumer we are still suffering due to the awful 7 months he's had.
Then tomorrow you will claim Poch is working miracles with the crap players he had dumped on him.
If we dropped points or missed out on a FA Cup due to Pochs treatment of Toby (as well as dropping Lloris for that game), how the hell would investing in the squad change that?

And what makes you feel the manager is not a massive part of the problem, if you feel he capable of such poor man management?

Im assuming the second quote was referring to the Utd semi?
One game in half a season, you criticised the decision.

But you said nobody berated Poch for not playing Toby. You know thats not true so why say it?

Ironically, most of the people that tried to justify the treatment/dropping of Toby happen to be the ones that generally agree with you!
Those that were saying he should be in the team and hounding Poch for not playing him were mainly of the same thought stream as myself
Strange ,that

 

[John Thomas]

And why have you edited and toned down your post from "criminal decision" to "handled badly"

Too late, I already quoted the original

In hindsight I realised that team selection, although emotive, is not so serious that it warrented the word criminal. It was an error of judgement to use it, especially in light of the Hugo situation.
You okay with that explanation

 

[Kekerinho]

Napoli were also declared bankrupt around the time we were progressing from 14th place finishes to EL qualification with zero debts.
Yes they've won a couple domestic cups 5 or 6 years ago, and seem to be well run now and debt free

They have no outstanding debt.
That last note is perhaps the most significant, considering the deep financial hole the club was in for so long. Even in more recent times, Napoli were in a spot of bother with the city over unpaid rent and taxes, though those problems were resolved in recent months.

And just like that, in the Mafia-est part of mainland Italy, it all goes away




Seville have a 40M Euro debt, havent won La Liga since 1946 but of course have been excellent recently in the EL

And we won........... what exactly?

 

[The Dane]

Does Sammy know you can have positive net spend and take on debt? It's not like we let people into the stadium for free, the club makes a lot of money. Surely we should see some of that go to transfers

 

[The Dane]

And why have you edited and toned down your post from "criminal decision" to "handled badly"

Too late, I already quoted the original

Maybe because the initial post was a direct reaction to the line-up and whatever, and seeinh them dropped makes you boil?

 

[Blink22]

- No new players
- Stadium not ready
- Dearest season tickets on the planet
- 1 trophy in 18 years (least credible)
- Sell our stars
- Tossers for club legends like Graham Roberts and Micky Hazard

Levy’s Tottenham

 

[sammyspurs]

Maybe because the initial post was a direct reaction to the line-up and whatever, and seeinh them dropped makes you boil?

The initial post was five minutes before he edited it, not at the time of the game. He wrote it was a "criminal decision" today, and changed it within minutes to "badly handled".

Just goes to show he is very uncomfortable about calling out Poch to harshly, which is my whole point. Why are you even involved? He can speak for himself.

 

[sammyspurs]

And we won........... what exactly?

You just tried to compare teams that won stuff but had to get into debt in order to do so.
Simply showing that your list of teams are not comparable to us.

 

[sammyspurs]

In hindsight I realised that team selection, although emotive, is not so serious that it warrented the word criminal. It was an error of judgement to use it, especially in light of the Hugo situation.
You okay with that explanation

Not really because one minute you are claiming that you berated Poch, and hounded him for it, then the next you are playing down your harsh words as being unwarranted.

Which is it?

 

[Joe Clash]

- No new players
- Stadium not ready
- Dearest season tickets on the planet
- 1 trophy in 18 years (least credible)
- Sell our stars
- Tossers for club legends like Graham Roberts and Micky Hazard

Levy’s Tottenham

Hi James.

 

[sammyspurs]

Why wont anyone address the fact we have more points than this time last year after 5 games?
We have started better, with no signings.
Last summer we spent 75M and were a point worse off at this stage.

Why dont people address facts that they dont like. Its still a fact if you keep ignoring it. It doesnt go away because you pretend it didnt happen.

 

[Fidel Castro]

Last summer we spent 75M and were a point worse off at this stage.

Why dont people address facts that they dont like. Its still a fact if you keep ignoring it. It doesnt go away because you pretend it didnt happen.

It wasn't all happy bunnies in lollipop land . We sold our best wing back for £50 squid to a rival (not really , the board had given up competing ) and replaced with calamitous inferior self imploding plodder .
I think it's the overwhelming manor of our defeat that has brought a little concern.

 

[sammyspurs]

It wasn't all happy bunnies in lollipop land . We sold our best wing back for £50 squid to a rival (not really , the board had given up competing ) and replaced with calamitous inferior self imploding plodder .
I think it's the overwhelming manor of our defeat that has brought a little concern.

Hmm.......but we spent big. We bought Sanchez for 40M, and everyone was cracking one off over it.....we bought Llorente. The Llorente before Poch destroyed him, and most people were finding it hilarious that we had "Willianed" Chelsea.....he was considered good, solid back up.
A prospect in Foyth and a decent young keeper.
Regarding Aurier, nobody knew he was a maniac on the pitch as well as off it at the time. By and large it was all seen as good business.
We spent 75M or so........now it was suddenly bad spending?

It wouldnt matter how we lost, its just that we lost. It was the same after Watford. Ive heard we were "atrocious" at Old Trafford, and pretty crap against Fulham and Newcastle too.

So, again, why wont people address that we are better off now, than after 5 games last season.
A season where most were going out of their way to wrap Dele in cotton wool and defend his shite performances, and calling those who were pissed off with the Swansea and Burnley draws "melts".
It was only September.......nothing wrong with Wembley...etc etc etc

Whats changed?

 

[John Thomas]

I really don’t, but I’ll try. It’s out of character for Poch to berate the team. After beating Utd so handily maybe some players felt they deserved a bit of praise for turning the game around and instead they got a volley in public. That’s so unlike him - man management is his real strong point and I think he should have kept that in house. I got some stick for suggesting Alderweireld’s reintegration might have caused some problems, and that’s fair enough, I was guessing, but we aren’t playing for each other at the moment. Something is definitely going on. I think his ‘clean slate’ statement has upset some of our more loyal players who maybe thought opportunities were close. Just a few thoughts, but who knows?

I see where you're coming from. I agree there seems to be some discord in the dressing room, but I have my own theory as to why thats so.

I think it stems from Poch.
I think he's completely disillusioned and deflated at our non transfer window and it's having a negative effect on team morale.
In fact, if it wasn't for his new, improved 8.5million salary I think he'd have already walked. I still wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by Xmas, although I'm hoping he'll hold on to see if the January window shows more intent.

I also think some of the players themselves are starting to wonder if clubs ambition matches their own. Especially the big hitters. They must have been as bemused as the rest of us at seeing their own club basically opt out of the transfer window. Hiding behind the curtains as our rivals spent the money to strengthen.

Anyway, before I get shot down, thats just my theory. May be right , maybe wrong.