Why finishing in top 4 will be harder ( but still attainable)

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From your own fans? We're not neutrals. Constructive criticism is welcome on message boards, but it's obvious that a few on here appear to revel in poor performances and defeats. Support is going when the team is shit, a gallows humour permeating any pre-match pint. Not the "I'm done with this shit" and "I'm out" stuff you get on here after a 0-0 against Sunderland.
I don't have to agree with what they say to defend their right to say it. I believe there's too much suppression of opinions that vary from the accepted positive slant.

It's obvious to me that some are completely the other way, the "Ty type". All should be tolerated, not just some.

I'll stand by them even if they annoy some whom imo can't handle criticism, not necessarily you personally, Joe. But those types are here and they're more of a problem than those that are gloom merchants.
 
Neither does posters who constantly pump the club or players up, that's not objective either. Yet they never get called out for it. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander but they can get away with it under the guise of "supporting the club".

So no, I don't give a shit if there are some that are negative constantly, for a club that hasn't won much in a generation (3 trophies in my lifetime) there are FAR FAR more who constantly unjustly pump up the club, I find that nauseating to be honest. Praise needs to be earned.

We've been gradually improving as a squad over the last 10 years and our team hasn't earned the praise that more positive fans give them? Fuck off mate. That's just fucking bollocks.
 
There is an obvious reason why the happy clappers get more of a pass. In fact you've already said why. The clue is in the word "support". So while I agree that unrelenting support is no more objective, the fact is that positivity benefits club and fans more than negativity ever will. Negativity is what generates horrid atmospheres at the Lane when we have a couple of bad results. At least the happy clappers still get behind the team when we struggle. I don't see how that is, on balance, as bad as negativity. 12th man and all that.

Constructive criticism, balanced with positivity when due, is fine. Most reasonable fans will be like that, and most will look at things of concern when we're in bad form. But still moaning when we're second in the league, unbeaten at home and just come off a record of 9 Premier League straight wins? Sorry. but that's bollocks mate. If you truly have been a fan for as long as you say then you'd know there's not much to complain about these days.
I agree and disagree. Negativity is just another word for not accepting mediocrity, whereas as the happy clappers do exactly that. That's all beside the point anyway as this has nothing to do with atmosphere at the lane and I'd wager that people who are a bit Eeyore like would get behind the team live at a game, it's about freedom of expression online, not at games.

Anyway, enough derailing the thread purpose, they just have the right to be negative is all :thumbup:
 
I'll stand by them even if they annoy some whom imo can't handle criticism, not necessarily you personally, Joe. But those types are here and they're more of a problem than those that are gloom merchants.

I don't see how people who won't hear a bad word about Spurs are more of a problem - I honestly can't see that.
 
I don't have to agree with what they say to defend their right to say it. I believe there's too much suppression of opinions that vary from the accepted positive slant.

It's obvious to me that some are completely the other way, the "Ty type". All should be tolerated, not just some.

I'll stand by them even if they annoy some whom imo can't handle criticism, not necessarily you personally, Joe. But those types are here and they're more of a problem than those that are gloom merchants.

You're right. We're only sat second in the league. Levy should have given Poch a 500 million pound transfer kitty. Levy Out. Poch Out, he d. Kane Out, he has shitty ankles. Lamela out, hasn't got much of a hip left. Eriksen out, I've seen him bottle chances. Son out, he only does it against the small teams. Wanyama out, not enough Pasta talk.

I'm sure there are plenty I've missed. But let's just flog em all. They haven't earned any praise.
 
I agree and disagree. Negativity is just another word for not accepting mediocrity, whereas as the happy clappers do exactly that. That's all beside the point anyway as this has nothing to do with atmosphere at the lane and I'd wager that people who are a bit Eeyore like would get behind the team live at a game, it's about freedom of expression online, not at games.

Anyway, enough derailing the thread purpose, they just have the right to be negative is all :thumbup:

Have you honestly just referred to the club as mediocre now? We're bloody second in the fucking Premier League. If you came to me ten years ago and said Spurs would be 2nd in the league now I'd have laughed in your fucking face. We have closed a gap that without an oil baron buying you over, seemed impossible. Yet we did it. And we keep doing it. We're far from mediocre right now. We're playing the best football we have ever played in many of our poster's (but not all) lifetimes.
 
I agree and disagree. Negativity is just another word for not accepting mediocrity, whereas as the happy clappers do exactly that. That's all beside the point anyway as this has nothing to do with atmosphere at the lane and I'd wager that people who are a bit Eeyore like would get behind the team live at a game, it's about freedom of expression online, not at games.

Anyway, enough derailing the thread purpose, they just have the right to be negative is all :thumbup:
When was the last time we "accepted mediocrity"? We've got a brand new stadium on the way. We've got a state of the art training ground. We've finished in the top six ten times in twelve years. We've won a trophy, two more cup finals, been in the CL twice and almost constantly been in Europe within that time. This site didn't even exist before 12 years ago. Hell, most Spurs sites didn't.

So what mediocrity are you talking about these happy clappers accepting? The Sugar years?

Sorry mate, but you're still talking shit.

Oh, and you have no idea whether of not the negative nancies take their negativity in the stands. I've listened to many moaners in the ground so your "doubt they do" doesn't entirely convince me.
 
Neither does posters who constantly pump the club or players up, that's not objective either. Yet they never get called out for it. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander but they can get away with it under the guise of "supporting the club".

So no, I don't give a shit if there are some that are negative constantly, for a club that hasn't won much in a generation (3 trophies in my lifetime) there are FAR FAR more who constantly unjustly pump up the club, I find that nauseating to be honest. Praise needs to be earned.
Woeful. You support a club because it's in your genes. Winning trophies is the icing on the cake & at Spurs we are luckier than most in that department.

Go to Rochdale, Oldham, Bury, Stockport (or Bolton these days). Or hundreds of other clubs.

They still get a turn out. Not because they win trophies. Because people have a natural affinity for whatever reason.

3 trophies in your lifetime...what a hardship it must be.
 
We've been gradually improving as a squad over the last 10 years and our team hasn't earned the praise that more positive fans give them? Fuck off mate. That's just fucking bollocks.
we have, that's plain to see and fwiw with a little be more quality in depth we have a title winning capable squad in the coming years and hope we don't waste Jan and Tony in particular by not achieving it.

That said, where we are now is around where we should be, so praising the improvement from the end of the AVB/Sherwood period is merely praising an improvement from perennial underperformers which is a bit shallow, that said, Poch's ability with young players and the style of football played is worthy of adulation.

What more worthy of praise would be the improvements made on and off the pitch since ENIC bought the club.

I don't see how people who won't hear a bad word about Spurs are more of a problem - I honestly can't see that.
wouldn't expect you to, they're generally the ones that are the least tolerant of contrary views.
 
we have, that's plain to see and fwiw with a little be more quality in depth we have a title winning capable squad in the coming years and hope we don't waste Jan and Tony in particular by not achieving it.

That said, where we are now is around where we should be, so praising the improvement from the end of the AVB/Sherwood period is merely praising an improvement from perennial underperformers which is a bit shallow, that said, Poch's ability with young players and the style of football played is worthy of adulation.

What more worthy of praise would be the improvements made on and off the pitch since ENIC bought the club.

wouldn't expect you to, they're generally the ones that are the least tolerant of contrary views.

AVB and Sherwood did absolutely fine in their time in charge. They just weren't going to take us to be above a level that we should be right now. For you to suggest they were under-performers is to suggest that we are where we should be now. And let me tell you right now. We're above where we should be. We have over-performed for a number of years. Our rightful place is 6th at best if you look at transfer budget and wage budget. Yet we often outperform those with bigger budgets. Many of our fans like to believe we should be winning the league every year. But the truth is we don't have the financial firepower to compete, yet year in and year out, we do compete. If all you care about is trophies though then this isn't currently the club for you. We're a work in progress and we're doing a fucking tremendous job.
 
AVB and Sherwood did absolutely fine in their time in charge. They just weren't going to take us to be above a level that we should be right now. For you to suggest they were under-performers is to suggest that we are where we should be now. And let me tell you right now. We're above where we should be. We have over-performed for a number of years. Our rightful place is 6th at best if you look at transfer budget and wage budget. Yet we often outperform those with bigger budgets. Many of our fans like to believe we should be winning the league every year. But the truth is we don't have the financial firepower to compete, yet year in and year out, we do compete. If all you care about is trophies though then this isn't currently the club for you. We're a work in progress and we're doing a fucking tremendous job.
For the second season in a row we look to have the best defence, how many leagues in Europe would the best defence finish 6th, which is where you say we belong?

Had we not had a shocking summer window we'd be a lot closer to top of the league than 10 points adrift, 2nd season running with too many draws, we bought shite and have to learn from that or history will again repeat itself. That has nothing to do with financial muscle or not being able to compete for the league, we can and we have the spine capable to do so, so I don't buy the overachieving argument this season, not to say that hasn't been true previously.

This team, this best XI and probably the best 3-4 subs are capable of winning the league, finishing 3-4th isn't overachieving at all. 5th or 6th is underachieving with this squad of players and with this manager, but on financial muscle you'd have us believe that's where we should be. I don't agree.
I'll ignore the little dig and ask you why they are more of a problem?
I already did answer it, they're the least tolerant of contrary viewpoints.
 
For the second season in a row we look to have the best defence, how many leagues in Europe would the best defence finish 6th, which is where you say we belong?

Had we not had a shocking summer window we'd be a lot closer to top of the league than 10 points adrift, 2nd season running with too many draws, we bought shite and have to learn from that or history will again repeat itself. That has nothing to do with financial muscle or not being able to compete for the league, we can and we have the spine capable to do so, so I don't buy the overachieving argument this season, not to say that hasn't been true previously.

This team, this best XI and probably the best 3-4 subs are capable of winning the league, finishing 3-4th isn't overachieving at all. 5th or 6th is underachieving with this squad of players and with this manager, but on financial muscle you'd have us believe that's where we should be. I don't agree.

I already did answer it, they're the least tolerant of contrary viewpoints.

Who should we have signed then? Our top targets the last few years who we have missed out on have all went to other clubs based on financial gains that we can't offer them. Would we have been any better with Martial and Batshuayi? I honestly doubt we would have been.
 
I already did answer it, they're the least tolerant of contrary viewpoints.

If you supported Tottenham with the same one eyed fanaticism that you do your cricket team, you'd have an idea what people are talking about. Please don't talk about contrary viewpoints. You're no different to the people you're attacking.
 
where we are now is around where we should be
We should always be second in the league? What right do we have to be here? Man U and Liverpool are much bigger clubs than us in terms of money and fans. Shouldn't they be around about second? Woolwich are bigger than us for the same reason. Chelsea abd City are richer than us. What is our divine right to be second or even top four/six? You're talking shit mate....and even if this is where we "should" be, it doesn't mean it should be taken for granted and is not an achievement. Three trophies in your lifetime maybe, but I can tell you've followed the club for a much shorter period than that because your entirely lack perspective on where and how we've progressed.

the improvement from the end of the AVB/Sherwood period is merely praising an improvement from perennial underperformers
Moronic garbage. Perennial underperformers under AVB/Sherwood? What planet are you on? AVB got us our Premier League points record up to that point. So you're saying everything since our last title win in the 60s is no good enough. You're ssentially saying that we have a right to whine like spoiled babies if we don't win the league every year.

Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.

wouldn't expect you to, they're generally the ones that are the least tolerant of contrary views.
Being tolerant of other views doesn't mean having to be tolerant of constant and annoying negativity when it isn't warranted, nor does it mean having to tolerate unmeritorious remarks about underachieving. There's offering a contrary viewpoint, and then there's talking complete bollocks.

For the second season in a row we look to have the best defence, how many leagues in Europe would the best defence finish 6th, which is where you say we belong?
It takes more than a good defence to be second. Man U had the best defence last year. Why aren't they in second?

Had we not had a shocking summer window we'd be a lot closer to top of the league than 10 points adrift,
How do you know? Who would you have signed? Where would they fit into the squad? How do you know they would've hit the ground running? How much were you prepared to pay in wages? Whose place were you going to sacrifice? Is Wanyama not a great addition (That's one space in the squad the finished third last year already taken up)? Which tactics would you use to accommodate you new signing/s?

This team, this best XI and probably the best 3-4 subs are capable of winning the league, finishing 3-4th isn't overachieving at all.
It takes more than a best 11 to win a league when factoring in fitness and injuries....and also number of fixtures. Us winning the league would absolutely be an overachievement. Do you think our squad is better than all those of our rivals?
 
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We should always be second in the league? What right do we have to be here? Man U and Liverpool are much bigger clubs than us in terms of money and fans. Shouldn't they be around and not second? Woolwich are bigger than us for the same reason. Chelsea abd City are richer than us. What is a divine right to be second or even top four/six? You're talking shit mate....and even if this is where we "should" be, it doesn't mean it should be taken for granted and is not an achievement. Three trophies in your lifetime maybe, but I can tell you've followed the club for a much shorter period than that because your entirely lack perspective on where and how we've progressed.

Moronic garbage. Perennial underperformers under AVB/Sherwood? What planet are you on? AVB got us our Premier League points record up to that point. So you're saying everything since our last title win in the 60s is no good enough. You're ssentially saying that we have a right to whine like spoiled babies if we don't win the league every year.

Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.

Being tolerant of other views doesn't mean having to be tolerant of constant and annoying negativity when it isn't warranted, nor does it mean having to tolerate unmeritorious remarks about underachieving. There's offering a contrary viewpoint, and then there's talking complete bollocks.

It takes more than a good defence to be second. Man U had the best defence last year. Why aren't they in second?

How do you know? Who would you have signed? Where would they fit into the squad? How do you know they would've hit the ground running? How much were you prepared to pay in wages? Whose place were you going to sacrifice? Is Wanyama not a great addition (That's one space in the squad the finished third last year already taken up)? Which tactics would you use to accommodate you new signing/s?

It takes more than a best 11 to win a league when factoring in fitness and injuries....and also number of fixtures. Us winning the league would absolutely be an overachievement. Do you think our squad is better than all those of our rivals?

I think I'm right in saying that before Martin Jol, we had neither finished in the top or bottom 6 in the PL. We were the definition of mid-table. Some folk have short memories.
 
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