Younès Kaboul

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Gibbs, go on the Match Centre section of the site (West Ham United vs Spurs Match Centre - 16 Aug 2014 - tottenhamhotspur.com Go through the West Ham events and look at how many times you see Kaboul's unsuccessful aerials. He didn't have a defensive block until the 36th minute.

I don't think Kaboul's a bad player, and I certainly think he's a better option than Dawson. However, I don't understand why you're so adamant about not getting a better CB. When I said that he's made of glass your reply was that he's fit now. No shit he's fit. That's why he played. When he gets hurt we have no backup that I think is ready. If we go out and get Musacchio we're going to have a younger player that hasn't had any major injuries. No one is expecting us to make a run for the league title this year. But if Poch stays on for more than a season Kaboul will be 29 and Musacchio would be 24, one of them would be in the twilight of their career and the other would be hitting the prime. If we want to make any legit run in the future we have to go into it with the best players we can possibly get. Not ones that are over the hill.

Looking at Match Centre, I will say that majority of West Ham's crosses came from the right side, however, without going back and watching video I don't know if that's due to defensive errors by Rose, or whether or not he had been playing further forward and it was a different defender on the attacker. I will absolutely concede the point that the majority of West Ham's crosses came from their right side.
 
Benjamin said:
Gibbs, go on the Match Centre section of the site (West Ham United vs Spurs Match Centre - 16 Aug 2014 - tottenhamhotspur.com Go through the West Ham events and look at how many times you see Kaboul's unsuccessful aerials. He didn't have a defensive block until the 36th minute.

I don't think Kaboul's a bad player, and I certainly think he's a better option than Dawson. However, I don't understand why you're so adamant about not getting a better CB. When I said that he's made of glass your reply was that he's fit now. No shit he's fit. That's why he played. When he gets hurt we have no backup that I think is ready. If we go out and get Musacchio we're going to have a younger player that hasn't had any major injuries. No one is expecting us to make a run for the league title this year. But if Poch stays on for more than a season Kaboul will be 29 and Musacchio would be 24, one of them would be in the twilight of their career and the other would be hitting the prime. If we want to make any legit run in the future we have to go into it with the best players we can possibly get. Not ones that are over the hill.

Looking at Match Centre, I will say that majority of West Ham's crosses came from the right side, however, without going back and watching video I don't know if that's due to defensive errors by Rose, or whether or not he had been playing further forward and it was a different defender on the attacker. I will absolutely concede the point that the majority of West Ham's crosses came from their right side.
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Agree with the majority of your post, but again, just because a player plays does not necessarily mean he is 100% match fit.
 
Soldado gets infinite time to find form....Kaboul gets one game (as pointed out only his 15th in 2 seasons and a day)....alongside a new signing at CB......who then had to go RB as we were down to 10 men.

Poor sod.

Wonder how long Poch gets...I mean....we nearly drew 0-0 with West Ham..

:paulinhobored:
 
cahspur said:
Agree with the majority of your post, but again, just because a player plays does not necessarily mean he is 100% match fit.
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I know where you're coming from, but my counter would be that he's probably as fit as he can get at this point in his career. Which I would say constitutes being match fit.

If Ledley was still on the team I'm honestly not sure Poch would even allow him to play.
 
Re watched the match, still don't think he was that bad. Nowhere near match sharp, needs ten or so games under his belt after not really playing for two years, training and matches are a completely different thing. Think the fact that we had to defend so many crosses was the main issue, but that's down to being one man short and Lamela having defensive responsibilities on the left after the red. He's obviously near full fitness but that match sharpness is still missing, it will come.
 
Benjamin said:
I know where you're coming from, but my counter would be that he's probably as fit as he can get at this point in his career. Which I would say constitutes being match fit.

If Ledley was still on the team I'm honestly not sure Poch would even allow him to play.
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Well again, you have to take several other factors into consideration, and especially what else is available.

Other personnel options were Dier playing there instead, and playing Fryers of Veljkovic in the LCB slot; Vlad is said to have a "back problem;" and even a less than 100% Kaboul is better than the Daws we saw in this preseason, especially with how many passes he placed right on the foot of an opponent. Of course, it also seems the club is trying to sell Daws to make way for Musacchio.

Just too many factors at hand to assume that coaches make these decisions in August based entirely on whether a guy is 100% fit or not. Even the variation in injuries has to be taken into account. So given our current personnel options available, I'm not surprised he played Kaboul on Sunday, and it's not unimaginable to me that he would have played a younger Ledley for the time being as well.
 
cahspur said:
:paulinhofacepalm:

I didn't say they had the same injury, Gibbs, I merely pointed to an obvious example of another player who played despite not being 100% fit.
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Save your face palm. Your quote:

"My point is simply that he shows the signs of a player with permanent scarring where once cartilage was, and I don't find it surprising at all that the club has been actively pursuing a first choice center back "

Then you brought up ledders.

So you are face palming that I pulled you up on cartilage? When you spell out his so called missing cartilage? And bring up ledders?

That's what you get for stabbing in the dark guessing what was wrong with Kaboul and claiming it's your field just makes you look ridiculous.

He had jumpers knee.
 
cahspur said:
Well again, you have to take several other factors into consideration, and especially what else is available.

Other personnel options were Dier playing there instead, and playing Fryers of Veljkovic in the LCB slot; Vlad is said to have a "back problem;" and even a less than 100% Kaboul is better than the Daws we saw in this preseason, especially with how many passes he placed right on the foot of an opponent. Of course, it also seems the club is trying to sell Daws to make way for Musacchio.

Just too many factors at hand to assume that coaches make these decisions in August based entirely on whether a guy is 100% fit or not. Even the variation in injuries has to be taken into account. So given our current personnel options available, I'm not surprised he played Kaboul on Sunday, and it's not unimaginable to me that he would have played a younger Ledley for the time being as well.
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Yet you assume he's permanently crocked even though he's starting?
 
gibbs131 said:
Save your face palm. Your quote:

"My point is simply that he shows the signs of a player with permanent scarring where once cartilage was, and I don't find it surprising at all that the club has been actively pursuing a first choice center back "

Then you brought up ledders.

So you are face palming that I pulled you up on cartilage? When you spell out his so called missing cartilage? And bring up ledders?

That's what you get for stabbing in the dark guessing what was wrong with Kaboul and claiming it's your field just makes you look ridiculous.

He had jumpers knee.
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The surgery in 2012 was for his patellar tendonitis, not the injury being discussed.
 
Benjamin said:
I don't understand why you're so adamant about not getting a better CB. When I said that he's made of glass your reply was that he's fit now. No shit he's fit. That's why he played. When he gets hurt we have no backup that I think is ready. If we go out and get Musacchio we're going to have a younger player that hasn't had any major injuries. No one is expecting us to make a run for the league title this year. But if Poch stays on for more than a season Kaboul will be 29 and Musacchio would be 24, one of them would be in the twilight of their career
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I don't assume pistachio is a better player than Kaboul. You've probably hardly seen him play. You've already decided he's better in the prem than Kaboul which is presumptuous.

But my MAIN point is even if he is a better player than Kaboul (he could be) he will still look terrible like Jan did with thick wingers/wingbacks like Rose, Lennon, Townsend and Naughton watching the ball and not his back.
 
gibbs131 said:
You mean the injury your ex ray eyes made up?

Where you can see the cartilage scaring?

My presumptive bullshit, winging opinions guesstimate cartilage is worn to shit.
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It is an injury suffered while he was at Auxerre. He ruptured multiple cruciate ligaments in his right knee in a match against AS Monaco in 2005. Multiple cruciate ligaments are usually torn in an injury called the "unhappy triad," which includes the medial meniscus. That tissue is incapable of healing itself, and so can only scar over.

And yes, I do have X-ray eyes.
 
It's been mentioned earlier, but not many of the lads looked at peak fitness. If Poch's training sessions are as brutal as legend has it, then I'm sure, as others have intimated, there are going to be some tired legs while they get used to a different & more vigorous regime. The levels of fitness will come up to speed quickly as they are athletes, but it's still a bedding in period to new methods of training & tactics. If Kaboul is impressing enough in training to be picked on a match day, then he's either doing something right or Poch doesn't like the alternatives he has. Probably a combination of the two, but at 29, he is far from being on the scrap heap.
 
I have to agree, it's entirely true the whole team looked lacking in fitness. But it's opening day, and smack dab in the middle of August; many, many coaches have played players on opening day in the midst of the transfer window they intend to be backup once the window is concluded.
 
cahspur said:
It is an injury suffered while he was at Auxerre. He ruptured multiple cruciate ligaments in his right knee in a match against AS Monaco in 2005. Multiple cruciate ligaments are usually torn in an injury called the "unhappy triad," which includes the medial meniscus. That tissue is incapable of healing itself, and so can only scar over.

And yes, I do have X-ray eyes.
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The Clubs who signed him three times since then have actual X-rays, MRI's etc and physicals.

Strange how they missed it. But you got this, from your armchair.
 
gibbs131 said:
The Clubs who signed him three times since then have actual X-rays, MRI's etc and physicals.

Strange how they missed it. But you got this, from your armchair.
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It's not a matter of "missing it," as it's only a problem if it affects their play. Clearly at the time of purchase it was not affecting him, so there was no need to forego the purchase. As medical records are confidential, they would not cite their findings. As such, we have no idea what they did or did not find at the time of his medical.

It is my belief though, that he's at a point at which his body can no longer compensate for the issue. Whether I'm wrong or not as of this moment remains yet to be seen, but I feel my stance is given a bit more credibility (note: not proven correct though) by the fact Poch has highlighted CB as a concern worthy of spending a considerable amount of cash on. Between the two of Kaboul and Vertonghen, given the evidence, I think it much more likely the position he intends to directly address with such an expensive acquisition is Kaboul's position.
 
Regarding your:

"I feel my stance is given a bit more credibility (note: not proven correct though) by the fact Poch has highlighted CB as a concern worthy of spending a considerable amount of cash on. Between the two of Kaboul and Vertonghen, given the evidence... "


Evidence was Kab started. You ignore the main evidence right in front of your eyes that he was picked. What with poch being a stickler re fitness.

And you stating Poch has highlighted Kaboul to be replaced by a considerable amount of transfer money for a centerback is you with your NSA X-ray specs on again.
 
gibbs131 said:
Regarding your:

"I feel my stance is given a bit more credibility (note: not proven correct though) by the fact Poch has highlighted CB as a concern worthy of spending a considerable amount of cash on. Between the two of Kaboul and Vertonghen, given the evidence... "


Evidence was Kab started. You ignore the main evidence right in front of your eyes that he was picked. What with poch being a stickler re fitness.

And you stating Poch has highlighted Kaboul to be replaced by a considerable amount of transfer money for a centerback is you with your NSA X-ray specs on again.
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So every player that ever started on opening day, smack dab in the middle of the most active month of the transfer window (and especially at Spurs where we usually leave business for right at the end), was 100% fit and intended to be first choice after all is said and done? Is that really what you believe, Gibbs? And you think it's me that's "ignoring the evidence?"
 
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