This is concerning to read

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Macch said:
How do we the fans change that? You can't expect fans to cheer for everything.
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Well, they do at some other clubs (ie Dortmund).

What's worse than bad home form, the majority of players just don't seem to care. Get dirty. Do something small the fans can get behind. Dive in front of a shot. Make a good tackle. Hustle back and win back possession.
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This is a very dysfunctional squad, with parts and pieces of 5 different manager's "visions" floating about in them. Some don't want to be here, some do. But they're all in an environment where the fans are hostile, and they're having to do a lot of work towards a long-term pay-off many either won't or don't want to see. The result is an on-pitch product which consists of some guys playing their heart out, and some going through the motions, and a team getting beaten by other teams who have 11 guys all willing to put in the effort. And there's not a lot Poche can do about it until January.
 
TOMO said:
Used to sit next to one of those types, I get what you mean, all show no trousers, they are the first to run and hide and are only good at trying to blame you for their own lazyiness. Thankfully he is gone and I now work next to someone who wants to work now. Interesting thing about the popular lazy types is that they are good at fooling the naive and gullable.
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Well we have a young impressionable squad. And we've lost some of players that identify most with our club or players with character... Dawson, Parker, King (not playing), fit Sandro
I've seen what happens to young keen apprentices.... they get schooled and educated by the older settled crew to not rock the boat and get brought down to their level. And this can happen to guys even up to their 30's

How many managers are we gonna go through till we realise that there's a core group... group of players?staff? that are not helping to breed a winning attitude.

To us, we see a football club and football superstars on megabucks.... to them its a 9-5 job working for some company just like us. There's those that slack and duck and dive, there's the bitching, moaning, unions, those that buy into the new manager and are outcast or accused of brown nosing / sucking up etc.

We have to stick with Poch, changing a manager again isn't gonna fix anything.
There are deeper problems.
Poch needs backing. To the point that he can play our full U21 squad if he's not happy with the pro's.

Hell I'd be happy to see that. See that statement, that the manager has the balls and the backing to drop anyone if they don't buy in.

This is why I want Kane to start. Even Soldado because I can at least see him trying and genuinely annoyed at a miss.

Lloris or Verts should be captain.
Lloris turns out every game, looks dismayed at any mistakes and is world class
Verts to my mind is being broken by the system, beaten down by the core group. Manager should back him, give him the confidence, we are gonna build a team around you and if you think players aren't pulling their weight lay into them. The guy just might stay
 
In terms of the mind, I don't think money has the ability to comfort or control it. Human psychology is not that simple. The argument "you are getting paid a shit load so you need to perform regardless" ignores the fact that players are human and cannot switch on and off their ability at will. Its essentially demanding them to not be human, to not be persuaded by the 35,000 people in the stands that are booing at them and gasping in unison like frightened children with every loss of possession.

A players form has many aspects to it, but their salary is not the biggest component. Their state of mind is probably the biggest factor. So in terms of cultivating a better state of mind we can either:

1) Tell them to fuck off, do their job cause their getting paid more than we make in a year each week and treat them like robots instead of humans because we've paid for a ticket and we deserve to get whatever we want regardless.

2) Get behind them, cheer them on when they bring the ball down line, tell them we know they can do it, give them support and show some back bone when we see them struggling, not act like a fucking infant who just tossed his toy out of the pram.

Ade is not my favorite player, and this could have come from someone else with better impact, but his words are true. The players need to work on their mentality, of course. But we need to help them and if you think buying a ticket to the ground has abrogated you of any responsibility for their performance then you don't know football and you don't how people work, and you don't know yourself.
 
Juicy Sushi said:
This isn't a new thing though. The fans have been atrocious at home for over 12 months, and it's only a bad pass or two away at any point in a home game. It's a continuous issue at the Lane, irregardless of form.
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Yes but even many of the fan issues can be traced back to the club itself. The stupid prices which put off the more Working Class/old die hard type fan of, the annoying stewards who tell you to sit down and be a good boy all the time even when you are trying to be positive, the total lack of passion on the field from a lot of players who seem like mercenaries, the constant change of manager by Levy meaning there is no indentity only to be matched by our strange purchasing policy meaning we are always unbalanced as a sqaud. Not to mention the fantasy stadium that exists somewhere in imagination land.

When the club itself only looks at the bottom line, the perfect net spending the whole nature of the beast infects everything, Spurs fans might be angry but in general they are just down and depressed as if hit by Levy's giant all controlling corporate dildo. It's a spiral as well, the players lose, the fans get down, the players get down and so on that's why we need more guts in the team, feel like half of this team has no fight it in.
 
FWIW I fully believe Hugo should be captain too, then Vertonghen.

Both are proven material, and as for Vertonghen with a winning track record too.

I don't see why JV is benched, when we have MUCH much bigger problems than him. Fazio is just becoming a scapegoat, when in truth he has no experience of this league at all and shouldn't really play yet.
 
Since we have a squad that wants us to love them so much why don't we ask them out for a few beers or someone invite them over for dinner during the international break? I'm sure that will work :paulinhofacepalm:
 
A lot of what Adebayor is saying isn't wrong. I think the booing and the slagging off of players that is all too common is a disgrace. He's obviously speaking for the players and what is being said in the dressing room.

It also is tough for the players because a lot of the fans' cumulative frustration has nothing to do with them. It isn't them who price the tickets, tried to move us to Stratford, might have us play a season in Milton Keynes, charge us 50 quid for shirts, put a red sponsor on front of the shirt, refuse to have a positive net spend, sack managers every year, have a stupid little bald head. A lot of frustrations would still be there whether we are winning or losing and when we are losing a lot of the stuff the players have no control over manifests itself into abuse and other things.

Having said all of that, I'm sick of the excuses. This is two seasons now of absolute shit and one that was propped up by a transcendent talent. Maybe the expectations are two high due to the faults of the chairman and we shouldn't expect top four but looking at the talent of this side we should expect better than what we've gotten. It isn't just a problem of us at home either, we lucked out at Upton Park and Villa Park. We weren't convincing against Sunderland and we shit away the game at the Ethiad through individual mistakes on both sides of the pitch.

It wasn't the fans who made the most defensive mistakes in Europe last season, it was the players. As much as we'd all love to have a raucous atmosphere whether we're good or we're shit, it simply isn't feasible. I don't think there is a team in all the league that would have a great atmosphere when things aren't going well. It isn't conducive to the modern game. The players need to accept their performance alters the atmosphere.

So while I understand some of their complaints are legitimate and that a lot of our complaints about the club aren't their fault they still need to a have a massive look at themselves. What they are doing isn't good enough, it is time for them to save themselves. They've been happy to quit on two managers in a row while AVB and Sherwood took the fall but now it is time for them to prove it. Because while there are other parts of the club that need massive improvement, they are firmly at the top of that list. They are better than this and we've been waiting for them to prove it for two years. Anytime now, lads.
 
TOMO said:
Yes but even many of the fan issues can be traced back to the club itself. The stupid prices which put off the more Working Class/old die hard type fan of, the annoying stewards who tell you to sit down and be a good boy all the time even when you are trying to be positive, the total lack of passion on the field from a lot of players who seem like mercenaries, the constant change of manager by Levy meaning there is no indentity only to be matched by our strange purchasing policy meaning we are always unbalanced as a sqaud. Not to mention the fantasy stadium that exists somewhere in imagination land.

When the club itself only looks at the bottom line, the perfect net spending the whole nature of the beast infects everything, Spurs fans might be angry but in general they are just down and depressed as if hit by Levy's giant all controlling corporate dildo. It's a spiral as well, the players lose, the fans get down, the players get down and so on that's why we need more guts in the team, feel like half of this team has no fight it in.
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The club and the players need to be shown som brutal honesty too.

Stop selling lies about CL when in reality retaining PL status, then building a ground, then flogging to next big investor is there's on the fucking table anyway? And for the players, start watching your own performances when you get home and see how utterly gormless you appear, Ade himself (not nearly resembling a professionl athlete, be it footballer or petanque player) being a prime point in case.

Watched a quite remarkable interview with Barton last night. You know things are bad, when you think we actually need 2-3 of him.
 
Well said JDK JDK the frustrations that are coming out from the stands is not just at the worst home side in England. It's the administration as a whole. The one that's seen us go from top 4 and within a few points of it to mid-table with the hiring and firing policy. The one that has endorsed stubhub at the detriment of local & vocal fans for a few extra £'s. If we were winning (as we were under Tim) I'd still be calling for ENIC and Levy's head. The players are no copping the brunt of it instead of glossing over it with some results. We're fucked for a good 18-24 months. Just brace ourselves for it.
 
JDK said:
So while I understand some of their complaints are legitimate and that a lot of our complaints about the club aren't their fault they still need to a have a massive look at themselves. What they are doing isn't good enough, it is time for them to save themselves. They've been happy to quit on two managers in a row while AVB and Sherwood took the fall but now it is time for them to prove it. Because while there are other parts of the club that need massive improvement, they are firmly at the top of that list. They are better than this and we've been waiting for them to prove it for two years. Anytime now, lads.
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Bang on.

They have been allowed to "let" two managers "lose the dressingroom" in one season and the club has been idiotic enough to listen to the player power, only Sandro being given the arse for it (and he is probably the one sort of player we are left behind missing).

We basically have a bunch of quitters, and an idiotic club ownership letting it continue on and on and on.
 
NorseYid said:
Bang on.

They have been allowed to "let" two managers "lose the dressingroom" in one season and the club has been idiotic enough to listen to the player power, only Sandro being given the arse for it (and he is probably the one sort of player we are left behind missing).

We basically have a bunch of quitters, and an idiotic club ownership letting it continue on and on and on.
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It's even worse than having individual quitters. The club and its actions have created a culture of quitting which is much worse than having a few quitters as it is harder to eradicate. The players have no incentive to step it up when things get bad because they know the manager will just take the fall for them and the beat will go on.
 
JDK said:
It's even worse than having individual quitters. The club and its actions have created a culture of quitting which is much worse than having a few quitters as it is harder to eradicate. The players have no incentive to step it up when things get bad because they know the manager will just take the fall for them and the beat will go on.
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Yup

And when the quitters come moaning to the DOF or chairman or whoever
:sherwoodlol:
then they are certain to find ears for the sulking behind the managers back.
 
Astro said:
This other guy spends all his time talking, making people laugh, reading newspapers, doesn't do a thing... and then I come in and have all his work to do and then my own.
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Seems like the fella you work with is doing something positive to me.

there are different types of leaders... a poisonous atmosphere is what's gotten Spurs in this situation in the first place, so I have no qualms with Ade being a bit of a goofball. Neither should you.

Ade coming out about the squad being in a bad mood is caring and it is being extremely brave, seeing as he has to face the wrath of judgemental naysayers such as yourself.
 
truetomyself said:
Remind me, what was your reaction to this?
:pochbye:
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You just quoted my post in which I said WHILE I DONT AGREE WITH BLAMING THE FANS

AVB ripped this team apart and had no galvonising factors whatosever.
So, your non point is just that.

Also said this in another thread:

Players should'nt be blaming the fans, and just like I didnt with AVB, I wont back Ade on this.

You waited all this time to fall flat on your face

:llorishuh:
 
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At professional level you need to be right on your game, any way short you don't compete-simple.
It could all turn around quite easy with some luck and Pochettino getting the respect he deserves.
A good coach will work on the personalties, arm around some and give licence to others.
Some confidant characters will come through and lead.
Others will follow or be shown to be deadwood. At the moment all the players are hiding behind each other and its hard to see who's who?

We are all being played as fools by the players because Im certain Pochettino is giving his all,
 
Wikipedia Brown said:
Seems like the fella you work with is doing something positive to me.

there are different types of leaders... a poisonous atmosphere is what's gotten Spurs in this situation in the first place, so I have no qualms with Ade being a bit of a goofball. Neither should you.

Ade coming out about the squad being in a bad mood is caring and it is being extremely brave, seeing as he has to face the wrath of judgemental naysayers such as yourself.
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Lol I think you missed the point or maybe I didn't explain it well enough. You should work a couple of shifts with this guy and when you get all his work plus your own, you won't be thinking wow he's so sociable, he's doing something positive. You'll be thinking he's a cunt and that you've been shafted again.

Most people go to work and where they can try to have a laugh, take it easy, have some quiet moments... sure there's the jobsworths, the miserable cunts etc.
But work being work it has to be done at some point by someone.
Hell, I'm playing table tennis with my mates whenever there's a quiet moment but if a job comes in... get it done.

This guy and others I've met that I was trying to use an example..... do NO... ZERO work. Literally nothing except turn up on the premises and use every available union agreed process to get out of doing work. And that's how Ade is coming across to me.

I've got no problem with Ade being a goofball - Sandro was a goofball but when fit he destroyed on the pitch.

For footballers getting it done is on the pitch and lets not forget they get paid wages far in excess of what we earn for what a lot of us consider as a privilege. Not a few sentences to a reporter.

I'd prefer Ade to do something positive on the pitch which he aint doing. Maybe develop a decent first touch for starters.... not an unreasonable request for someone on his wage ;)

I also think you need to check the dictionary on what being brave means... it certainly aint brave to make a few offhand comments to some reporters that really amount to nothing whilst chilling behind the wheel of whatever supercar he's driving.
And unless he checks this forum, I doubt he'll have to suffer the "inhumane dignity of my attrocious comments" <gasp> how will that millionare sleep at night. Do me a favour.
 
Mark said:
I don't like doing this but I had to read that twice and parts still don't make sense! I get what you're trying to say though, I think
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The gist is, when we went 1-0 we were singing straight after. Well, we where I was was. We gave them every encouragement from the off and after the first goal.
And if he is saying that they are not wanting the ball because they fear the crowd, why are we still poor away? If he thinks that, he must have been thinking the same last year as we had the same comments from Dim and AVB. So why, if he feels like a family outcast playing at home for us, did he not fuck off to Turkey?
V Villa the fans sang from start to finish and it was the same performance then first half, without the fear of a home crowd. So, his point is not valid.
They we not scared of running to the corner and celebrating in front of them. I dare say the vast majority of the travelling fans go home games also. Anyway, it wouldn't do any harm for a player to gee up the crowd once in a while, show they care, when was the last Spurs player you saw do that?
Virtually all of them applauded the away fans, but only 3 acknowledged us on Sunday. We had 10 mins of decent stuff on Sunday, after the goal.
If our pitch is small, it should be easy to defend for us as well shouldn't it? It should also be easier to cover ground. Why are other teams finding space to hurt us then?
Why not set up a pitch to the dimensions of WHL out of the 15 we have at Hotspur way and practice on it?
Sorry, it's some of the players we have. Lamela and Mason are the only two midfielders who want the ball, home or away. They run about making space to collect a pass and track back.
Capoue, Dembele and Eriksen don't.
Capoue and Eriksen spent most of their time in the same place. Capoue never ventured into/near their box, same for Eriksen. In fact Capoue didn't do a lot of tracking back to our box either, nor did Eriksen. Kane and Mason were working their socks off making angles and Mason was tracking back more than Eriksen first half.. Dumbbell never got near their box either when he came on. Yet their defensive mid managed to get in and around ours quite regularly?
Football is about passing, moving into space to get it back and working hard. Capoue, Dembele and Eriksen are very immobile midfielders. Their is no urgency in them, no snap.
Don't be thinking things will change in January either as we won't be doing any buying, Who could we sell to do so? We have no money to spend. None of them would take lower wages and I can't see anyone offering them better. Anyway, their all on long contracts.
Fuck me we still sing Soldado's name. I wonder why that is.
I
 
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