So, how would you rate Andre Villas Boas' era?

[g_rc-d]

I was recently looking at Andre Villas Boas' impressive current results at Zenit in Russia, with an outstanding 80% win ratio and just two losses in 25 games, and then I saw his statistics during his time at Spurs. What came to me as an oddity was that his statistics for Tottenham are actually, at least in terms of numbers, the best of any manager in the past 10+ years! I am using Wikipedia numbers, which may be inaccurate but it does illustrate my point. In chronological order, most recent first:

Mauricio Pochettino ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 011 | 45.45% | 4/2
Tim Sherwood ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 028 | 50.00% | 4/10
André Villas-Boas ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 080 | 55.00% | 20/16
Harry Redknapp |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 198 | 49.49% | 50/50
Juande Ramos |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 054 | 38.89% | 16/17
Clive Allen |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 004 | 50.00% | 0/2
Martin Jol ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 148 | 45.27% | 38/43
Jacques Santini |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 013 | 38.46% | 4/4
Glenn Hoddle ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 104 | 39.42% | 18/45

KEY 1: NUMBER OF GAMES; % OF GAMES WON; DRAW TO LOSS RATIO.


As you can see, AVB does not only have the best win ratio of all (at least 5% better than everyone else), but also the best draw to loss ratio of all except Pochettino. Yet, AVB's stint at Spurs was deemed by most a disappointment, perhaps influenced by his previous unimpressive career at Chelsea. In retrospect, do you think AVB was a good choice at the time? Could he have done things differently, and if so, what were his faults?

 

[Anthony Beale]

I can already sense Sammy bookmarking this thread.

 

[ArcspacE]

Should have been given more time - gone too soon. He'll go on to have a glittering career no doubt

Let's hope Dear Poch is offered more support when the going gets tough

 

[Deadwood'sPostMatch]

His fault was his sterlie football. We played football that would bore the other team into a mistake.
I genuinely think he really worked hard and gave a fuck but his 'philosophy' just didn't work with the players we had.

 

[Dru]

Gone too soon, was never going to end well when he didn't get any players he wanted despite claims he signed off on those we got.
Will have the same problem with Pochettino eventually.

 

[ArcspacE]

Gone too soon, was never going to end well when he didn't get any players he wanted despite claims he signed off on those we got.
Will have the same problem with Pochettino eventually.

Eliminate the rot at the top, I say. Buck stops with them afaic

 

[S-11]

His fault was his sterlie football. We played football that would bore the other team into a mistake.
I genuinely think he really worked hard and gave a fuck but his 'philosophy' just didn't work with the players we had.

Half of the problem really. He wasn't backed to go out and get the players he wanted.
Same as Poch wasn't this summer.

 

[S-11]

To add though I don't miss him.
The football made my eyes bleed and we were a media target from day one.

 

[S.L.R]

Good win record boring football. Should have been given at least till the end of last season. From before he joined us though, his two problems were obviously bad man management and having no plan b, just sticking rigidly to his plan. They are the reasons he went.

 

[Deadwood'sPostMatch]

Good win record boring football. Should have been given at least till the end of last season. From before he joined us though, his two problems were obviously bad man management and having no plan b, just sticking rigidly to his plan. They are the reasons he went.

I think the no plan B is a tad harsh. I remember us against City at home being 1-0 down at HT and him bringing on Huddlestone and changing formations and winning (obviously we owe Bale a rather large credit). But he was too stubborn for the majority of the time. And there wasn't a lot of 'plan B' on our bench.

 

[sammyspurs]

what were his faults?

Being a stiff little robot who could not get into his head that a theory means nothing without the right players.
Not having another option when said theory was getting arse fucked 3-0, 5-0, 6-0 in the space of a month.
Playing weaker sides over personal reasons about players
Sidelining players because of his ego
Lying about said players being injured/homesick
Slating the home fans for his shit football
Playing shit football
Sucking the life out of players that got us into the CL quarters and making them look like clueless morons
Relying on one man - the revolutionary Bale formation - while neglecting actual tactics
Selling VDV and playing Dempsey
Not playing Lloris for two months just to show who's boss
Loaning out BAE, then dropping Naughton after one game to play Jan LB
Having an identical record to the never managed before, caretaker that took over
Taking us from a top 4 club into a downward spiral

 

[g_rc-d]

[...]
Having an identical record to the never managed before, caretaker that took over
Taking us from a top 4 club into a downward spiral

So, effectively, his fault was bad man management. I will give you that his football was boring in England in general. We never saw his teams over here doing anything exciting. But Mourinho has also been accused of this in the past as well, and it seems to me that AVB may have been a bad manager of men, but the players were also not accustomed to (or even willing to accept) his football philosophy. I think that the reason you observed these results had more to do with the same reasons Manchester United got so destabilized after switching managers post-Ferguson: The team had little will or patience to understand/learn the kind of football that AVB works with. Throw in his massive ego, and you get what you described. You may absolutely dislike his style of football, and I agree that his teams can get boring, but at least from Porto and Zenit, it seems that when his ideas work, they really do work -- producing exciting football along the way.

 

[sammyspurs]

So, effectively, his fault was bad man management. I will give you that his football was boring in England in general. We never saw his teams over here doing anything exciting. But Mourinho has also been accused of this in the past as well, and it seems to me that AVB may have been a bad manager of men, but the players were also not accustomed to (or even willing to accept) his football philosophy. I think that the reason you observed these results had more to do with the same reasons Manchester United got so destabilized after switching managers post-Ferguson: The team had little will or patience to understand/learn the kind of football that AVB works with. Throw in his massive ego, and you get what you described. You may absolutely dislike his style of football, and I agree that his teams can get boring, but at least from Porto and Zenit, it seems that when his ideas work, they really do work -- producing exciting football along the way.

Its a lot easier to stand out when when you take over at a ready made success, in a two team league, where the standard of 90% of your opposition is Champo at best.

AVB is all philosophy, with no experience on a football pitch, and when you have players who have played all their lives at the highest level being told a load of bollox, of course they will not respond well.

His man management sucked, but it was also a massive dose of naivety to think that an idea can carry the staff.

 

[S-11]

Being a stiff little robot who could not get into his head that a theory means nothing without the right players.
Not having another option when said theory was getting arse fucked 3-0, 5-0, 6-0 in the space of a month.
Playing weaker sides over personal reasons about players
Sidelining players because of his ego
Lying about said players being injured/homesick
Slating the home fans for his shit football
Playing shit football
Sucking the life out of players that got us into the CL quarters and making them look like clueless morons
Relying on one man - the revolutionary Bale formation - while neglecting actual tactics
Selling VDV and playing Dempsey
Not playing Lloris for two months just to show who's boss
Loaning out BAE, then dropping Naughton after one game to play Jan LB
Having an identical record to the never managed before, caretaker that took over
Taking us from a top 4 club into a downward spiral

Getting to the latter stages of the Europa league and playing Friedel over Lloris.

 

[Maccer]

Had the misfortune to watch the 2nd half of the Zenit CL game this week, 0-0 at home , just like the good old days at Spurs, I nodded off 5 minutes before the end.

 

[g_rc-d]

Had the misfortune to watch the 2nd half of the Zenit CL game this week, 0-0 at home , just like the good old days at Spurs, I nodded off 5 minutes before the end.

True. But if it means anything, in the Russian Premier League, in 9 games his team has scored 26 times and conceded only 4 times. I am not trying to claim that his is an impressive football or anything, but the numbers alone indicate that he can get the results with efficiency when everything gels.

 

[ArcspacE]

Merge with the AVB thread please

 

[sammyspurs]

I am not trying to claim that his is an impressive football or anything, but the numbers alone indicate that he can get the results with efficiency when his team is massively superior to the rest of the division

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

The OP could be the cleverest troll I've ever seen. Or just completely unaware of the history of this board.

 

[g_rc-d]

I found this article a quite accurate analysis of things, although I still insist that AVB has been judged far too harshly on certain occasions.