Lewis Holtby

[cahspur]

So, after watching almost the entire preseason I'm still not sure how Holtby is going to fit into the team. I imagine he'll be played in cup games and Europa and used as a sub, but is that really enough? I feel as if that's putting him on the path to leaving. This guy clearly wants 1st team football. Maybe he should be sitting next to a CDM and playing box to box? Capoue with Holtby next to him would certainly be interesting to watch, though I'm not sure it's the best idea. I wish that someone would actually ask Poch a question such as, "how do you plan on implementing the overflowing number of midfielders you have?" And of course to get a real answer. Pretty sure we're got the front of the field covered, but towards the back I still am very unsure of who will be in there.

Yeah this is without doubt one of the biggest issues Poch will have to tackle. He has an absolute surplus of midfielders, many of which talented but don't play in a style he seems to advocate. Clearly Poch seems to like Holtby, but does Poch honestly intend to play him over Eriksen in his best position, or all of Dembele, Paulinho, and Bentaleb in theirs?

People have often suggested playing Holtby as the CAM and Eriksen wide, but I doubt it. Poch has preferred using very different players in the front four to create more problems in the rotation, so I can't imagine he'd intend to have all the creative players in the three attacking mid positions. It does also seem Poch intends to play Lennon out left to provide another option altogether, which would make sense considering he often liked to play Ward-Prowse in a position opposed to Lallana (Lamela's apparent new role).

 

[Benjamin]

Yeah this is without doubt one of the biggest issues Poch will have to tackle. He has an absolute surplus of midfielders, many of which talented but don't play in a style he seems to advocate. Clearly Poch seems to like Holtby, but does Poch honestly intend to play him over Eriksen in his best position, or all of Dembele, Paulinho, and Bentaleb in theirs?

People have often suggested playing Holtby as the CAM and Eriksen wide, but I doubt it. Poch has preferred using very different players in the front four to create more problems in the rotation, so I can't imagine he'd intend to have all the creative players in the three attacking mid positions. It does also seem Poch intends to play Lennon out left to provide another option altogether, which would make sense considering he often liked to play Ward-Prowse in a position opposed to Lallana (Lamela's apparent new role).

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I know exactly what I'm about to say, and I know that it's ridiculous. Just hear me out. If you only take this preseason into account and disregard last season people would be calling for Poch's head if he started Eriksen over Holtby.

 

[cahspur]

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I know exactly what I'm about to say, and I know that it's ridiculous. Just hear me out. If you only take this preseason into account and disregard last season people would be calling for Poch's head if he started Eriksen over Holtby.

It is true. Holtby seems determined as all hell to stake his claim, while Eriksen seems a "lulling into things." I'm sure Eriksen will pick it up once we get closer to the season, maybe even against Schalke, but for now I think you're absolutely right.

 

[Benjamin]

It is true. Holtby seems determined as all hell to stake his claim, while Eriksen seems a "lulling into things." I'm sure Eriksen will pick it up once we get closer to the season, maybe even against Schalke, but for now I think you're absolutely right.

That free kick was spectacular though!

I think that Eriksen being on the pitch creates more confusion for the defense than Holtby. Chris' creativity is definitely on a different level, but Lewis looks like he's almost sacrificed creativity for the power of a fucking steam train. That training with the Seahawks might have gotten to him. There have been times when I seriously thought he was just going to stiff arm a defender and go right over him.

 

[sammyspurs]

Its really odd that in the Schniederlin thread, he is seen as the missing link and answer to all our problems.

But in the Holtby thread, people are like "how will Poch use all our midfielders and incorporate Holtby..."

But no one mentions that they think we should buy Schniederlin as the answer.....

 

[sammyspurs]

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I know exactly what I'm about to say, and I know that it's ridiculous. Just hear me out. If you only take this preseason into account and disregard last season people would be calling for Poch's head if he started Eriksen over Holtby.

I wouldnt be calling for his head and Id be prepared to pat Holtby on the back for earning a spot.

Id also be very confused as to how playing well against the likes of Toronto and Celtic U15s is enough to oust Eriksen though.

 

[tbonepremier]

Keep in mind that Holtby also did very well in the Europa League group stage last season. He's just a very good player against weaker opponents, while he's so far struggled in the premier league. Defensively, his energy and all-over-the-place pressing works better against bad teams, and offensively he finds himself with that little bit of extra time and space to play what is at times quite brilliant passes.

I remain unconvinced that he can do it in the premier league though, but would rather see him, and our other midfielders, getting a chance, rather than see us splash way too many gold coins on Schneiderlin.

 

[sammyspurs]

I remain unconvinced that he can do it in the premier league though, but would rather see him, and our other midfielders, getting a chance, rather than see us splash way too many gold coins on Schneiderlin.

Totally agree.....its odd, because it seems to be that some of Holtby and Sandro's biggest admirers are also among the strongest advocator's of signing Schniederlin.

 

[Super Jan Fan]

Holt by will start against WetSpam; that's my prediction.
He's looking good because he's now got a manager who knows how to use him, rather than the two clueless fools we had last season.

 

[gibbs131]

Yeah this is without doubt one of the biggest issues Poch will have to tackle. He has an absolute surplus of midfielders, many of which talented but don't play in a style he seems to advocate.

You have no proof of this. And the lack of our outgoings, his interviews stating he will play to our CURRENT PLAYERS strengths and phone calls to World Cup players etc directly contradicts your opinion. His actions and words prove he is happy with the midfield options he has.

He didn't have a warchest to overhaul saints into his 'system'. He just improved what he had without a major influx of players. It wasn't chance that they happened to fit his system you constantly talk about.

He litterally said he's not going to make major changes, and we are flush with cash. He said that he is going to mold our players individual strengths to create a system. That does not suggest that the players are not suited for his method of play does it? In fact it pretty much puts a stake in your reasonings and opinions.

It is YOUR OPINION/BIAS ALONE that came to the conclusion that our players are not suited for his system.

 

[gibbs131]

Holt by will start against WetSpam; that's my prediction.
He's looking good because he's now got a manager who knows how to use him, rather than the two clueless fools we had last season.

I hope not. Eriksen, Lamela, holtby and Soldado = AVB style era.

I'd much rather see a change from last seasons mistakes where Holtby got one prem goal in a calendar year because he was getting overun and frustrated in the prem.

Sure they can beat west ham but against better teams they can potentially get blown out of the water when athletic fast teams with real bite are the op.

 

[Raven_Spurs]

I hope not. Eriksen, Lamela, holtby and Soldado = AVB style era.

I'd much rather see a change from last seasons mistakes where Holtby got one prem goal in a calendar year because he was getting overun and frustrated in the prem.

Sure they can beat west ham but against better teams they can potentially get blown out of the water when athletic fast teams with real bite are the op.

So are you saying Eriksen, Lamela, Holty and Soldado aren't good enough then/ you don't want them playing? :carrollwtf:

 

[Tomo]

Its really odd that in the Schniederlin thread, he is seen as the missing link and answer to all our problems.

But in the Holtby thread, people are like "how will Poch use all our midfielders and incorporate Holtby..."

But no one mentions that they think we should buy Schniederlin as the answer.....

I think with schniederlin he is seen as the upgrade to Sandro (obviously that's if you think he is an upgrade) a probable centre paring of schniderlin and capoue with our attacking midfielders further forward.

For me it's the cash issue if poch wants him and we sell Sandro as long as we get overall reasonable value I am not against it but I have to admit was surprised at the initial schniederlin link. Would rather get bony and a left winger personally.

 

[Tomo]

I hope not. Eriksen, Lamela, holtby and Soldado = AVB style era.

I'd much rather see a change from last seasons mistakes where Holtby got one prem goal in a calendar year because he was getting overun and frustrated in the prem.

Sure they can beat west ham but against better teams they can potentially get blown out of the water when athletic fast teams with real bite are the op.

In defence of the mentioned players avb's weird fucked up tactics of stay in the same position no movement and don't press hard on the opposition defence made a lot of our skilful players look shit.

I really cannot judge most of our team considering the two dummies in charge our team last year. I actually believe holtby is potentially a really good player and want to give him a chance.

 

[Super Jan Fan]

I hope not. Eriksen, Lamela, holtby and Soldado = AVB style era.

I'd much rather see a change from last seasons mistakes where Holtby got one prem goal in a calendar year because he was getting overun and frustrated in the prem.

Sure they can beat west ham but against better teams they can potentially get blown out of the water when athletic fast teams with real bite are the op.

Fair enough if that's your opinion, but my view is that these player are absolutely fine players, who were just told to play in ways which helped explose their weaknesses while giving no platform to show off their strengths.

If these players were to play in the same game under Poch, I very much doubt we would see them playing in the same formation as AVB or Sherwood went for last season, but even if we did there would sure be a lot more fluidity to it with players swopping positions, covering each other, etc. and playing with completely different tactics and gameplans than before.
I really think we will see a similar situation to when Redknapp took over, where players who previouly looked weak suddently look pretty decent and players who were okay before but not nothing more, suddenly look really very good. Out of the above, the only player I am not confident about being decent next year is Soldado because I think he is still carrying a lot of self doubt after last season, but we'll see.

 

[cahspur]

You have no proof of this. And the lack of our outgoings, his interviews stating he will play to our CURRENT PLAYERS strengths and phone calls to World Cup players etc directly contradicts your opinion. His actions and words prove he is happy with the midfield options he has.

He didn't have a warchest to overhaul saints into his 'system'. He just improved what he had without a major influx of players. It wasn't chance that they happened to fit his system you constantly talk about.

He litterally said he's not going to make major changes, and we are flush with cash. He said that he is going to mold our players individual strengths to create a system. That does not suggest that the players are not suited for his method of play does it? In fact it pretty much puts a stake in your reasonings and opinions.

It is YOUR OPINION/BIAS ALONE that came to the conclusion that our players are not suited for his system.

aulinhofacepalm:

Said the guy who has stubbornly and rudely refused to familiarize himself with any of Poch's tactics despite being politely offered and linked for him, writes posts that clearly reflect this entire lack of knowledge, amusingly believes Poch's tactics are even remotely in line with his own (battering rams, physical specimens centrally, static fullbacks, etc), declares the case closed with 28 days left in the window (what a terrible lawyer you would be), hears "major" and believes it a concrete number instead of a vague description, and has demonstrated an entire lack of objective thought processes in his condescending posts (has been banned from four sites previously and sin-binned here 4-5 times for this very reason).

Go home Gibbs, you're bound to drown with how much swimming out of your depth you do.

 

[Joe Clash]

You have no proof of this. And the lack of our outgoings, his interviews stating he will play to our CURRENT PLAYERS strengths and phone calls to World Cup players etc directly contradicts your opinion. His actions and words prove he is happy with the midfield options he has.

He didn't have a warchest to overhaul saints into his 'system'. He just improved what he had without a major influx of players. It wasn't chance that they happened to fit his system you constantly talk about.

He litterally said he's not going to make major changes, and we are flush with cash. He said that he is going to mold our players individual strengths to create a system. That does not suggest that the players are not suited for his method of play does it? In fact it pretty much puts a stake in your reasonings and opinions.

It is YOUR OPINION/BIAS ALONE that came to the conclusion that our players are not suited for his system.

I know you work in telecoms, but this is going too far.

They do not 'prove' anything of the sort.

That can be taken anyway you want. As he knows, but you can't see.

 

[TDub]

I hope not. Eriksen, Lamela, holtby and Soldado = AVB style era.

I'd much rather see a change from last seasons mistakes where Holtby got one prem goal in a calendar year because he was getting overun and frustrated in the prem.

Sure they can beat west ham but against better teams they can potentially get blown out of the water when athletic fast teams with real bite are the op.

Poch played with Rodriguez, Steven Davis, and Lallana behind Lambert together many times so get used to 3 smaller players playing behind a striker. And your comment on AVB's tactics is completely off. It wasn't the fact that we had 3 smaller players that led to AVBs demise. It was his unwillingness to abandon his rigid tactics that led to his downfall. But keep believing that 3 creative players behind a striker will never work. Teams like Liverpool with Sterling, Coutinho, and Suarez, Chelsea with Hazard, Oscar, and Willian, and City with Nasri, Silva, and Navas make you seem stupid.

 

[gibbs131]

Teams like Liverpool with Sterling, Coutinho, and Suarez, Chelsea with Hazard, Oscar, and Willian, and City with Nasri, Silva, and Navas make you seem stupid.

I seem stupid? You think Holtby and Soldado can mimic Suarez and Hazard etc?

AVB had Holtby struggling because he had combos of Defoe, Lennon, Townsend, Soldado, Lamela bouncing off defenses because they were WEAK. That is why Holtby only scored ONE PREM GOAL IN A CALENDER YEAR.

The mix was wrong. If you play people where ALL of your attackers have a problem with the physical aspects of the game, you will get obliterated by the players you just mentioned.

It was painfully obvious that Sherwood introducing the strength of Ade and Kane added the dimension we needed. Eriksen and Lamela need to have players that can fight battles next to them. Otherwise you will have Holtby pounding the earth with his fist screaming at refs because he was bundled off the ball in another 50/50.

Eriksen and Lamela need to play with Ade and Kane IMO. They need targets to aim at and help hold up the ball for them. And Holtby is perfect backup for Eriksen or Lamela. I'd never play the 3 at the same time unless the rest of the team are bruisers and they all have cover behind them.

 

[gibbs131]

Fair enough if that's your opinion, but my view is that these player are absolutely fine players, who were just told to play in ways which helped explose their weaknesses while giving no platform to show off their strengths.

If these players were to play in the same game under Poch, I very much doubt we would see them playing in the same formation as AVB or Sherwood went for last season, but even if we did there would sure be a lot more fluidity to it with players swopping positions, covering each other, etc. and playing with completely different tactics and gameplans than before.
I really think we will see a similar situation to when Redknapp took over, where players who previouly looked weak suddently look pretty decent and players who were okay before but not nothing more, suddenly look really very good. Out of the above, the only player I am not confident about being decent next year is Soldado because I think he is still carrying a lot of self doubt after last season, but we'll see.

Shipping 5 goals vs US teams in 2 games does not worry you? I think they are fine players (apart from Soldado who I don't think has the style to suit the prem and will not get enough goals or impact to get us 4th and beyond). Eriksen and Lamela start every game for me. And Holtby is fine backup for them.

Ade is a proven prem striker, and got 11 prem assists in his first season for us. He will be a perfect foil for our young attackers. I don't want Soldado with his luggage risking the development of the Eriksens and Lamelas who have the potential to be world beaters.