Building the best squad - and we need what?

[5purs]

Just a quick re-cap:

Dejan Kulusevski's loan move was made permanent in the summer for a reported £25m

Pedro Porro's loan move was made permanent in the summer for a reported £40m

Guglielmo Vicario signed for a reported £17.1m

Micky van de Ven signed for a reported £43m

James Maddison signed for a reported £40m

Alejo Veliz signed for a reported £13m

Ashley Phillips signed for a reported £2m

Brennan Johnson signed for a reported £45m


Kane £86.4m, Winks £10m and Sanchez £8.1m left the club (reported)

 

[Distaste for scouse]

We need two centre backs as cover, a left back as cover. And at least one other creative player in the Maddison mould. Plus a back up for Son.
That's quite a lot and probably at least two more windows whichever way you slice it.

 

[spursmalc]

We need ;

To steadfastly stick behind Ange.

He said all “The company lines” during a summer we sold our best player, and, barely invested a penny beyond already signed players (Kulusevski, Porro). He said he expected another CB. Then our spectacularly tight Chairman signs nobody and sells the only CB who was capable of playing a high line due to some pace and showed reasonable uplift in performance pre-season = Sanchez, after the window in England had closed leaving him no Senior option he felt he could rely upon (as stated he said to the press, all the things Levy had parroted down, too big squad, you can’t just sign umpteen players… he was sold out, yet again, by Levy).

We need to get upset at one individual, should any continuation of the present downturn persist : Levy.

We need to implicitly trust Ange, he has shown the closest DNA to our club I ever recall as manager. Celtic fans warned of a bumpy first season being likely, that Second season at all his clubs was a dramatic improvement on the first. He knows which characteristics he requires.

We tried to sell Sanchez earlier last summer but he rejected the offers. Then he got an offer after the window closed and wanted to go. Ange agreed he could go. Sanchez has been a weak link for several seasons and if we had stopped him going then he could have stayed until the end of his contract. Not Levy’s fault about the Sanchez decision and I am glad he has gone. Now we can get a replacement in January. We were very unlucky to lose both CB’s in the same match.

 

[Jaynola]

Not bragging, but within my first week as Tottenham’s new head coach on FM, I managed to sell Hojbjerg to Lille, Richarlison to Porto, Lo Celso to Milan and...swear that's true...Emerson + Dier + Skippy to Liverpool.

Over to you, Ange.

 

[White Hart]

We need two centre backs as cover, a left back as cover. And at least one other creative player in the Maddison mould. Plus a back up for Son.
That's quite a lot and probably at least two more windows whichever way you slice it.

Not Back up again for God‘s sake but someone to challenge him and Good enough to replace him. Love Son but we need more of a specialist centre forward, someone who can score regularly and be a pest in the box. Son isn’t really tough enough for that.

 

[White Hart]

Not bragging, but within my first week as Tottenham’s new head coach on FM, I managed to sell Hojbjerg to Lille, Richarlison to Porto, Lo Celso to Milan and...swear that's true...Emerson + Dier + Skippy to Liverpool.

Over to you, Ange.

Bet you’re brilliant at Subbutio.

 

[White Hart]

We need two centre backs as cover, a left back as cover. And at least one other creative player in the Maddison mould. Plus a back up for Son.
That's quite a lot and probably at least two more windows whichever way you slice it.

One centreback would be ok, a really good one. The other,place could be Philips or Dorrington. It’s about time we introduced few youngsters.

 

[stevee]

We need ;

To steadfastly stick behind Ange.

He said all “The company lines” during a summer we sold our best player, and, barely invested a penny beyond already signed players (Kulusevski, Porro).

Eh ?

Johnson €55m
Maddison €46m
Van den Ven €40m
Vicario €19m
Veliz €15m
Solomon free

Total € 175m = £153m

Surely your not saying that because we paid a loan fee for Kulusevski and Porro that we didn't have to pay anymore for them ?

 

[Slavvie]

Unless you've secretly seen Veliz produce Harry Kane levels in training or something, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you without giving you a disagree vote, for now...

I noted eventually because I believe it will happen at some stage. That may be 2 years from now with a good mix of loan experience and first-team subs. The raw physical ingredients and abilities on the ball are there. The game awareness, movements and positioning can be coached.

Besides the fact that BJ and Richy can also cover Sonny in that role, if and when needs must (January etc).

 

[Slavvie]

One centreback would be ok, a really good one. The other,place could be Philips or Dorrington. It’s about time we introduced few youngsters.

They're both very promising (I especially like the look of Alfie on the ball) but, as another user also posted, they are still well off the pace for the top level (per recent matches against Cambridge and Peterborough).

I admittedly turned my nose up at Lloyd Kelly in the last window, but he's had a couple of good performances for Bournemouth recently. 25yo so entering his early peak years.

 

[todd1882]

As for incomings, think most of us would agree we need:

- Backup/3rd keeper (HG, young but decent 1st team experience)​

​

- Quality ball-playing CB (bit older than Cuti & Micky...HG is tough)​

​

- Backup WB who can play either side​

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- Creative wiz to deputise for Madds (can play centrally or wing, assist & score...that Jack Clarke is HG)​

​

- Proper striker (so Sonny can rest, play some LW...)​

No, no, no, a thousand times no! You do not buy players to play BEHIND other players on the depth chart (unless they offer something drastically different). Does this really make sense to you? Your previous post you were on the money about getting rid of current dross but now you want to replace them with players of a backup standard i.e. future dross.

You don't build a team this way. You build a team by recruiting players on top of the players you already have or with at least a different skillset to bring to the festivities...you don't spend money on an ersatz rendition of your current player...then all you get is the same thing but shittier!

• "Backup/3rd keeper" - this will have to be an older GK that accepts his fate. No young keeper good enough to deputize/compete will accept the position.
• "Quality ball-playing CB" - more than enough questions remain about both Romero and VDV to suggest that actual competition is what is needed...would Romero have done that stupid foul if he knew a real CB was breathing down his neck? And VdV's ball ability is certainly lacking. And both have individual defensive issues to work on
• "Backup WB" - is our rightside nailed down? Porro and Emerson were both bad buys. But at least Emerson can/attempts to play the left. Keep both (and I like neither) and wait until you can find someone to dislodge Porro
• "Creative wiz to deputise for Madds" - JM's been better than I expected...but he's not been that good that there aren't other promising players to compete with him. I'd say look for someone that is even more of an all around MF but with more of an attacking sense than defense...more 8/10. I also expected injury because that is what history shows...and here we are. We don't need backup quality we need actual competition for a player for whom his performance thus far has been more surprise than expectation.
• "Proper striker" - I think just the opposite. I'd say we need a proper leftsided forward/winger with actual creative and attacking threat. We don't have a number 1 over there so we should rectify the situation. If he can do a job at striker fine but it would be easier to find an older player to do the 80-90% of the striker job in order to rest Sonny, who should never go back to LW...and won't have to if we get a proper player there.

Not suggesting much of this will/can/should get done in the next 2 windows. But getting rid of all those players you spoke of is spot on and should happen ASAP...even if the financial hit prevents a short-term transfer in. If it's a project then let it be so and plan.

 

[Zest]

Eh ?

Johnson €55m
Maddison €46m
Van den Ven €40m
Vicario €19m
Veliz €15m
Solomon free

Total € 175m = £153m

Surely your not saying that because we paid a loan fee for Kulusevski and Porro that we didn't have to pay anymore for them ?

- Kane £86-£100m
- Winks £10m
- Sanchez £10m

As said, contextually to our position (finishing 8th, hoping for a much better new season, without our generational talent…).

So, we spent about £40m, after losing our generational talent, finishing 8th and huge antagonism towards Levy on match days last season.

Levy’d.

 

[Zest]

Ange broke lines, in saying he expected another CB signing.

If we had one more new CB Ange wanted, do we think the following would be true :

Van De Ven, would have got rests, some games (or end of games), easing the tightening of his Hamstring which blew out?

Would he have needed to spend the entire first half Vs Wolves gesticulating for the back line to push up, if he wasn’t forced to play Dier and Davies together, two players with no significant recovery pace, who had seasons of low block muscle memory?

He has been sold down the river, by our tight overlord? Yep.

 

[stevee]

- Kane £86-£100m
- Winks £10m
- Sanchez £10m

As said, contextually to our position (finishing 8th, hoping for a much better new season, without our generational talent…).

So, we spent about £40m, after losing our generational talent, finishing 8th and huge antagonism towards Levy on match days last season.

Levy’d.

Ah, you're actually talking about net spend and not "investment" as you stated.

I'm that case you have to include the Kulu and Porro transfer (not loan) fees which is about £90m

£130m

My bad

 

[Zest]

Ah, you're actually talking about net spend and not "investment" as you stated.

I'm that case you have to include the Kulu and Porro transfer (not loan) fees which is about £90m

£130m

My bad

Semantics. So the last two seasons signings count for this summer now then…

 

[stevee]

Semantics. So the last two seasons signings count for this summer now then…

Not semantics, facts.

We paid a loan fee for both of them previously. This would have been included in the financial statements of the club at the time of the loan.

That is separate from the transfer fee paid in the summer for them, which will be included in this year's financial statements.

But you carry on pretending that we didn't buy them for a combined £90m this summer.

 

[manmountainbutters]

Just a quick re-cap:

Dejan Kulusevski's loan move was made permanent in the summer for a reported £25m

Pedro Porro's loan move was made permanent in the summer for a reported £40m

Guglielmo Vicario signed for a reported £17.1m

Micky van de Ven signed for a reported £43m

James Maddison signed for a reported £40m

Alejo Veliz signed for a reported £13m

Ashley Phillips signed for a reported £2m

Brennan Johnson signed for a reported £45m


Kane £86.4m, Winks £10m and Sanchez £8.1m left the club (reported)

All of those, except Sanchez, were great bits of business. Another window like that and we will ride over bumps in the road like the one we are currently experiencing.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Thing that this injury crisis shows me is that the approach to squad building and team building shouldn't include recruiting any guys that we see as squad players.

If we keep a Ben Davies or an Emerson Royal as versatile pros that can step in and do a job then great but NEVER recruit them to be that. Recruit every player to have the mindset of starting, even if they end up doing a different job.

When you go after talents like VDV and Udogie, you know fully that you might have them for a good time but not a long time. Whatever happens this season, those 2 are probably only sticking around one more year unless we are winning the prem or challenging for the prem the year after. If not their agents will be pushing them on to bigger things. For Romero and maybe even Bissouma given his age, if we don't get top4 their agents might be pushing them on even next summer...That's fine and just the way shit works. You'd always rather have players good enough to attract bigger clubs.

You don't want to be restarting the project again every time you sell a key player. That doesn't mean you always need to spend 45m on a VDv for your 3rd CB but it means you need to be smart and maybe sign a guy that's 1 or 2 years off being fully ready to be an elite-level CB to be your 3rd and 4th CB...

 

[5purs]

- Kane £86-£100m
- Winks £10m
- Sanchez £10m

As said, contextually to our position (finishing 8th, hoping for a much better new season, without our generational talent…).

So, we spent about £40m, after losing our generational talent, finishing 8th and huge antagonism towards Levy on match days last season.

Levy’d.

£80.6m... according to the reported transfer fees paid and received which, of course, are subject to amortisation

A rough estimate based on 6 year contracts, excluding salary and bonuses (all subject to interpretation) would make a yearly debt of £37.5m for the summer 2023 business. However, this is directly offset by player sales which are 'pure profit' in terms of financial reports

Our income, spread to cover this summers spending would be offset by £17,1m per year over the same six year example period

This means, all transfer spending for last summer is £20.4m per annum



*****This maths is massivley missing many factors that aren't quantifiable without an inside forensic comb. It's not fact rather, using the available, reported transfer fees and a six year amortisation model based on solely on the 2023 summer activities. It doesn't factor pre or post finances which alter the figures quoted nor club debt, staff costs, staff bonuses etc

 

[Richard Arlison]

Eh ?

Johnson €55m
Maddison €46m
Van den Ven €40m
Vicario €19m
Veliz €15m
Solomon free

Total € 175m = £153m

Surely your not saying that because we paid a loan fee for Kulusevski and Porro that we didn't have to pay anymore for them ?

None of those fees are paid in one sum.

Neither were the fees for Porro or Deki.

The only fee that involved a large lump sum this summer was Kane going out and Bayern paid slight;y less because they paid in one chunk.

You either count transfers in lump sums from the date the player first played for Spurs or first plays for the new club you sell them to.

Or you go through the accounting boredom of working out exactly mow much of the total owed is paid each summer.

Unless, of course, you want to bend the facts to fit any narrative you like, i.e., counting the total spend for players like Romero, Deki, and Porro in multiple windows to make it look like a bigger spend by the club, or not counting it when they come in because it's a loan so you have a stick to beat the owners with...