Building the best squad - and we need what?

[Kaz Hirai]

Not even 10% of the below will happen in January but, what we need is:

OUT

• Don't tell me there's zero way to struck a deal with relics like Hugo or Ivan for them to go back home or one last juicy contract in US/Saudi

• Austin, Whiteman, Sess, Tangs - can't be that pricey to release them surely

• I get that Royal, Dombs, Hojbjerg, Lo Celso & Richy can't be given free transfers and that it's not financially viable either to realease them, plus why would they agree to leave seen their humongous Spurs wages? But all except the blob still have enough pedigree to generate decent offers from Spain, Italy, Germany surely? But of course if our chairman thinks he's gonna recoup his money, well...

• Leeds would defo buy Rodon for 5 mil, same as a team at the bottom of the PL or near the top of the Champo would give us a few mil for Dier. As for Reguilon, 5 to 10 mil and he's back in Spain.

Not saying it's an easy task, but that's why our directors get paid so handsomely. The fact our deadwood list is still sooooo long in Nov 2023 proves they aren't doing a good enough job. Period.

hugo was available on a free, no one wanted him. I would say it's unusual but no one has bothered with David De Gea either

sess would cost a whole lot of money to release, makes more sense to get him somewhat fit and loaned out so we dont pay all his wages until his contract is up

 

[Jaynola]

As for incomings, think most of us would agree we need:

- Backup/3rd keeper (HG, young but decent 1st team experience)​

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- Quality ball-playing CB (bit older than Cuti & Micky...HG is tough)​

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- Backup WB who can play either side​

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- Creative wiz to deputise for Madds (can play centrally or wing, assist & score...that Jack Clarke is HG)​

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- Proper striker (so Sonny can rest, play some LW...)​

 

[Matt1882]

hugo was available on a free, no one wanted him. I would say it's unusual but no one has bothered with David De Gea either

sess would cost a whole lot of money to release, makes more sense to get him somewhat fit and loaned out so we dont pay all his wages until his contract is up

That's probably not entirely true.
I bet Levy would have only let him go to clubs of his own choice on a free, and of those clubs. there probably weren't many, if any Hugo would choose.
Once his contract is up and he can choose any club he wants, I'm sure he'll sign up PDQ. He might even do it this January on a pre-contract. At which point Levy will probably buckle and let him go.

 

[Spursidol]

Last January Spurs signed Porro (£44m ?), Danjuma (loan) , Soonsup-Bell (youth).

Other clubs had variable numbers (eg ManU signed Butland, Weghorst and Sabitzer all 3 on loan, Liverpool Gakpo £45m, no others) but with the exception of Chelsea who signed half a team and spent gazillions, Liverpool and Spurs with a couple of others spent the most, with most others buying a couple of inexpensive players and or loans.

Over the last decade Spurs have usually brought in one player, and a couple of times two players (notably Bentancur and Kulusevski in Jan 2022), so it would be fair to say on average we've bought in one player in January.

So ...... in January 2024, we might get one player in ..... possibly two players in or if lucky an unprecedented three players in (and very unlikely more).

The reason few clubs can afford to spend in January is very simply because PL's biggest revenue stream, TV money is paid to clubs around 30 June ........ so not much money to spend in Jan !

 

[stevee]

Not even 10% of the below will happen in January but, what we need is:

OUT

• Don't tell me there's zero way to struck a deal with relics like Hugo or Ivan for them to go back home or one last juicy contract in US/Saudi

Would still have to pay their wages, so no benefit to releasing them.
No player is going to give up a percentage of their wage for no good reason.
Plus they can get a massive signing bonus for a new team if they wait out their contracts.

• Austin, Whiteman, Sess, Tangs - can't be that pricey to release them surely

See above, maybe they have a bit of value to a champo/league 1 team

• I get that Royal, Dombs, Hojbjerg, Lo Celso & Richy can't be given free transfers and that it's not financially viable either to realease them, plus why would they agree to leave seen their humongous Spurs wages? But all except the blob still have enough pedigree to generate decent offers from Spain, Italy, Germany surely? But of course if our chairman thinks he's gonna recoup his money, well...

They have to agree to move as well.
Domb was for sale in the summer, and all we got was an offer for is a season long loan so can't be sold.
Even Galatasary don't want him anymore.
He's on huge wages so he will refuse to move.
PEH was up for sale and we got zero offers.
Besides, we're not going to sell him in January with Biss and Sarr of to AFCON.
Lo Celso and Richy we need to get offers for, and they need to agree on moving.

• Leeds would defo buy Rodon for 5 mil,

Fair

• same as a team at the bottom of the PL or near the top of the Champo would give us a few mil for Dier. As for Reguilon, 5 to 10 mil and he's back in Spain.

Once again, Dier was up for sale in the summer, no price tag mentioned, and there were zero offers.
Reggie is on a season long (contracted) loan to Utd, and can not be sold to any club, unless it's Utd.

Not saying it's an easy task, but that's why our directors get paid so handsomely. The fact our deadwood list is still sooooo long in Nov 2023 proves they aren't doing a good enough job. Period.

Our directors can do nothing if nobody wants to even make an offer, even a low offer has to be made first before trying to sell a player.

 

[Jaynola]

Would still have to pay their wages, so no benefit to releasing them.
No player is going to give up a percentage of their wage for no good reason.
Plus they can get a massive signing bonus for a new team if they wait out their contracts.

You do understand it's not just for financial reasons you'd terminate a contract?

Also, players will agree to it, provided 1/ they get a sweet goodbye gift...2/ they've got another club lined up and one that's gonna give them a nice little bonus, seen as they'll pay no transfer fee. Pretty sure that's what happened with Aurier, Doherty...

They have to agree to move as well.
Domb was for sale in the summer, and all we got was an offer for is a season long loan so can't be sold.
Even Galatasary don't want him anymore.
He's on huge wages so he will refuse to move.
PEH was up for sale and we got zero offers.
Besides, we're not going to sell him in January with Biss and Sarr of to AFCON.
Lo Celso and Richy we need to get offers for, and they need to agree on moving.

We don't know for sure there were no offers. Probably more likely that there were some, but just didn't match our expectations in terms of fee. Wouldn't be the first time we have unrealistic views on a player's value...

Ndombele aside, players wanna play. Especially with international tourneys on the horizon...the Euros, Copa America, Summer Olympics. Of course a Lo Celso or Richy wouldn't move just for the sake of it, but say the financials are no issue for player & club, I do believe they'd bite your hand off to join a Leverkusen, Atalanta, Sevilla-type club where they'd play week in week out.

Once again, Dier was up for sale in the summer, no price tag mentioned, and there were zero offers.

If you really can't sell him, even for a few mil, then cut him. We shouldn't care about the cost at this stage of his Spurs career. The guy's lost what...about 100 games for Spurs? It just doesn't hurt him anymore. He's lost the edge a long time ago. You can't have that type of influence in the squad, not when you're trying to build something new with kids like Micky, Sarr, Brennan...

Reggie is on a season long (contracted) loan to Utd, and can not be sold to any club, unless it's Utd.

Fair. That one can wait til the summer, hopefully we get a buyer then...someone offers us 10 mil, we'd better take it. Another stellar signing by our recruitment geniuses...

Our directors can do nothing if nobody wants to even make an offer, even a low offer has to be made first before trying to sell a player.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, my man. They deserve no letting off the hook as far as I'm concerned. Other clubs manage to shift their deadwood...but we hang on to it til the end of time

 

[stevee]

You do understand it's not just for financial reasons you'd terminate a contract?

Yes, but the players need to agree to a contract being terminated.

Also, players will agree to it, provided 1/ they get a sweet goodbye gift...2/ they've got another club lined up and one that's gonna give them a nice little bonus, seen as they'll pay no transfer fee. Pretty sure that's what happened with Aurier, Doherty...

They will only agree to it if a) they have another club lined up. These players don't.
And b) that club is going to at least match the wages they are on now. See Maguire's transfer issue in the summer.
The more a club spends on transfer fee, the less bonus available for the player.

We don't know for sure there were no offers. Probably more likely that there were some, but just didn't match our expectations in terms of fee. Wouldn't be the first time we have unrealistic views on a player's value...

Pure speculation on your part.
We offered Hugo around on a free and nobody wanted him.
Dier , I think there was an offer, but the player himself rejected it . Not sure on that though.

Ndombele aside, players wanna play. Especially with international tourneys on the horizon...the Euros, Copa America, Summer Olympics. Of course a Lo Celso or Richy wouldn't move just for the sake of it, but say the financials are no issue for player & club, I do believe they'd bite your hand off to join a Leverkusen, Atalanta, Sevilla-type club where they'd play week in week out.

No argument there.
But we still have to receive an offer for them, and we haven't.
Lo Celso, for example, has been out on loan at other clubs and still nobody wants to buy him.

If you really can't sell him, even for a few mil, then cut him. We shouldn't care about the cost at this stage of his Spurs career. The guy's lost what...about 100 games for Spurs? It just doesn't hurt him anymore. He's lost the edge a long time ago. You can't have that type of influence in the squad, not when you're trying to build something new with kids like Micky, Sarr, Brennan...

Again he refused a move in the summer because he wants a big fat signing bonus.
He knows he's finished with us.
We'll still have to pay his wages if we cut him, so there's no benefit in doing that.
Plus we're down to playing back ups at CB and Ange, very obviously, rates Dier as being better than Phillips or Dorrington.
I'm not saying he's right or wrong, simply stating a fact.

Fair. That one can wait til the summer, hopefully we get a buyer then...someone offers us 10 mil, we'd better take it. Another stellar signing by our recruitment geniuses...

My biggest beef has been our recruitment, it's been awful but has improved greatly.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, my man. They deserve no letting off the hook as far as I'm concerned. Other clubs manage to shift their deadwood...but we hang on to it til the end of time

Ok, explain how our directors can sell a player who doesn't want to move (Dier) even when an offers been made and can't even shift a player to other clubs on a free ?

Maybe the players are so bad that nobody wants them.
Maybe they think they're better than they are and are holding out for Milan (Rose)
Maybe they're quite happy to draw the wage knowing that they will have a choice of clubs, with a handy signing bonus, in the summer.

Bottom line is if a player is under contract you can not force them to move, or cancel their contract without their consent.
That's the whole point of a contract.

 

[Jaynola]

Yes, but the players need to agree to a contract being terminated.

They will only agree to it if a) they have another club lined up. These players don't.
And b) that club is going to at least match the wages they are on now. See Maguire's transfer issue in the summer.
The more a club spends on transfer fee, the less bonus available for the player.

Pure speculation on your part.
We offered Hugo around on a free and nobody wanted him.
Dier , I think there was an offer, but the player himself rejected it . Not sure on that though.

No argument there.
But we still have to receive an offer for them, and we haven't.
Lo Celso, for example, has been out on loan at other clubs and still nobody wants to buy him.

Again he refused a move in the summer because he wants a big fat signing bonus.
He knows he's finished with us.
We'll still have to pay his wages if we cut him, so there's no benefit in doing that.
Plus we're down to playing back ups at CB and Ange, very obviously, rates Dier as being better than Phillips or Dorrington.
I'm not saying he's right or wrong, simply stating a fact.

My biggest beef has been our recruitment, it's been awful but has improved greatly.

Ok, explain how our directors can sell a player who doesn't want to move (Dier) even when an offers been made and can't even shift a player to other clubs on a free ?

Maybe the players are so bad that nobody wants them.
Maybe they think they're better than they are and are holding out for Milan (Rose)
Maybe they're quite happy to draw the wage knowing that they will have a choice of clubs, with a handy signing bonus, in the summer.

Bottom line is if a player is under contract you can not force them to move, or cancel their contract without their consent.
That's the whole point of a contract.

Thanks my dear but I know how contracts work

My whole point is, despite all the circumstances, things you can vs cannot do etc etc, it's utterly ridiculous that in Nov 2023 we still have Hugo, Sess, Dier and the likes on our roster. Somebody not doing their job well enough. Period.

 

[Coys1955]

What we don't need are more players made of glass (Sess) or with an insatiable appetite for Big Macs (Ndombele).

 

[stevee]

Thanks my dear but I know how contracts work

My whole point is, despite all the circumstances, things you can vs cannot do etc etc, it's utterly ridiculous that in Nov 2023 we still have Hugo, Sess, Dier and the likes on our roster. Somebody not doing their job well enough. Period.

Says he's aware of how contracts work after saying that contracts should be cancelled regardless.

 

[Jaynola]

Says he's aware of how contracts work after saying that contracts should be cancelled regardless.

Well now you're just being silly, pal.

In none of my posts did I say you can unilaterally terminate a contract.

When talking about Hugo & Perisic, I said surely there's a deal to be struck with the players. When talking about Sess & Tangs, I said it can't cost that much to release them ie their parting gift. And about Dier, I said it doesn't matter what it'd cost ie just pay whatever it takes to get rid asap.

But cheers.

 

[stevee]

And about Dier, I said it doesn't matter what it'd cost ie just pay whatever it takes to get rid asap.

But cheers.

Ok sweetie, you're really not very good at this.
Let me explain in simple terms that I hope you can understand, seeing as you know how contracts work ;

You've literally just said the same thing as previously.
You can't just "pay whatever it takes" if the player doesn't agree with it.
He's quite entitled, although it's unethical and immoral, to stay at the club and draw his wage.

Unless if course you're suggesting that we give him £20m to bugger off, and even then the player still has to agree to it.

Now you can come back and say "b....b...but I didn't mean it like that" or "my point was...." in a lame attempt to deflect from your as actual words.

I'm done, Pal.

 

[dondo]

Well now you're just being silly, pal.

In none of my posts did I say you can unilaterally terminate a contract.

When talking about Hugo & Perisic, I said surely there's a deal to be struck with the players. When talking about Sess & Tangs, I said it can't cost that much to release them ie their parting gift. And about Dier, I said it doesn't matter what it'd cost ie just pay whatever it takes to get rid asap.

But cheers.

Why would Dier, lloris or whoever agree to a deal? What would you say if your boss offered you 50/60% of your years wages to fuck off now, when you get get 100% by just sticking around?

 

[Shadydan]

lol fans still not understanding that you can't just cut a player's contract without both parties agreeing.

And also when you pay out a big wage you're literally using money from a transfer budget meaning you'll have less to spend on incommings.

It's just totally asinine to rip up contracts, you can't just write off assets just like that because they still hold a value to the club, that's literally the point of handing them a contract.

 

[spursmalc]

Last January we released Doherty. We had bought Porro and could not loan Doherty or keep him in the squad. Do not know how much it cost us but very poor business. Last week Doherty who is still in the Premier League played against us and it would have been a massive embarrassment if he had scored against us. We cannot go down that route again which limits our incomings. Selling players like Trippier who ends up playing against us is normal but writing off a contract and they can still hold a PL place is not. Dier for instance will leave in the summer and maybe if dropped for Phillips for our next match may consider going early but if he carry’s on playing then he will stay. Lloris who has not made a squad could more likely go and we could decide Perisic is not going to come back and his contract is up in the summer and we could remove him from the squad. Other than that it is buying young players that do not count as part of the 25 squad.

 

[HyNdZee]

It's clear we need a striker and a centre back. End of discussion. But I'll probably get 10 disagrees because "we don't buy strikers in Jan" and "Richarlison is better than Toney", etcetera...

 

[Slavvie]

It's clear we need a striker and a centre back. End of discussion. But I'll probably get 10 disagrees because "we don't buy strikers in Jan" and "Richarlison is better than Toney", etcetera...

Besides the fact that signing a striker in Jan is v uncommon, I'd say it's one of our lesser concerns and likely addressed in the summer. I also think Veliz has got the goods to eventually be a very good Prem forward.

CB, Madders depth and Destiny cover are the patently obvious ones. Dier, Giovani and Sess have run their race at the club (or walked, if recent history is anything to go by...)

 

[HyNdZee]

Besides the fact that signing a striker in Jan is v uncommon, I'd say it's one of our lesser concerns and likely addressed in the summer. I also think Veliz has got the goods to eventually be a very good Prem forward.

CB, Madders depth and Destiny cover are the patently obvious ones. Dier, Giovani and Sess have run their race at the club (or walked, if recent history is anything to go by...)

Unless you've secretly seen Veliz produce Harry Kane levels in training or something, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you without giving you a disagree vote, for now...

 

[Zest]

We need ;

To steadfastly stick behind Ange.

He said all “The company lines” during a summer we sold our best player, and, barely invested a penny beyond already signed players (Kulusevski, Porro). He said he expected another CB. Then our spectacularly tight Chairman signs nobody and sells the only CB who was capable of playing a high line due to some pace and showed reasonable uplift in performance pre-season = Sanchez, after the window in England had closed leaving him no Senior option he felt he could rely upon (as stated he said to the press, all the things Levy had parroted down, too big squad, you can’t just sign umpteen players… he was sold out, yet again, by Levy).

We need to get upset at one individual, should any continuation of the present downturn persist : Levy.

We need to implicitly trust Ange, he has shown the closest DNA to our club I ever recall as manager. Celtic fans warned of a bumpy first season being likely, that Second season at all his clubs was a dramatic improvement on the first. He knows which characteristics he requires.

 

[HyNdZee]

We need ;

To steadfastly stick behind Ange.

He said all “The company lines” during a summer we sold our best player, and, barely invested a penny beyond already signed players (Kulusevski, Porro). He said he expected another CB. Then our spectacularly tight Chairman signs nobody and sells the only CB who was capable of playing a high line due to some pace and showed reasonable uplift in performance pre-season = Sanchez, after the window in England had closed leaving him no Senior option he felt he could rely upon (as stated he said to the press, all the things Levy had parroted down, too big squad, you can’t just sign umpteen players… he was sold out, yet again, by Levy).

We need to get upset at one individual, should any continuation of the present downturn persist : Levy.

We need to implicitly trust Ange, he has shown the closest DNA to our club I ever recall as manager. Celtic fans warned of a bumpy first season being likely, that Second season at all his clubs was a dramatic improvement on the first. He knows which characteristics he requires.

You see, this post makes a bit of sense but the problem is we've seen it with Poch and Mourinho before. They were trying to toe the company line but also knew they needed a better centre back or four. You say Ange toes the line but he also said in a press conference before Chelsea he needed more control in the market and who can blame him.

Well, I don't blame Conte for his outbursts either, but they are not smart if you want long term employment under Levy. I do not make the rules.