Who is to blame?

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Who is to blame?


  • Total voters
    79
  • Poll closed .
But where was the hand wringing when we got rid of the previous manager, a lot of you seem to think that was the correct thing to do.

why not then?

why not when he was trying to take us to Stratford?

All i ever really saw prior to AVB being sacked was Levytime this and that and what a top chairman he was?

So why the knee jerking over the chairman now?
 
Yeah its funny how sacking AVB actually comes across as worse than trying to move us to East London the way some are carrying on.

I bet certain people would have happily followed us there....but tin tack AVB, and its "should Levy go?"
 
The Jews

wait...Fuck
cristiano-ronaldo-jews.gif
 
What's to blame at THFC is the compulsion and culture of blame. Sacking Jol, Redknapp and AVB for footballing reason were all mistakes. We've made sacrificial lambs out of three managers and put the blame on them.

Then behind the scenes we just continue to make the same mistakes. There is no introspection, attempt to formulate a plan or policy, any desire to change. Just a desire to make our managers blame patsies and continue to let the money stack up with no concern for what the footballing repercussions are.

The problem is blame itself and an unwillingness to try to change or plan anything new. Just the status quo. Doesn't matter who the manager is. Maybe we'll get lucky one day with a manager, that's really our only hope if we just continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

This process is groundhog day. I'm not upset that AVB specifically was sacked, but rather that we've been in this same situation three different times.
 
What's to blame at THFC is the compulsion and culture of blame. Sacking Jol, Redknapp and AVB for footballing reason were all mistakes. We've made sacrificial lambs out of three managers and put the blame on them.

Then behind the scenes we just continue to make the same mistakes. There is no introspection, attempt to formulate a plan or policy, any desire to change. Just a desire to make our managers blame patsies and continue to let the money stack up with no concern for what the footballing repercussions are.

The problem is blame itself and an unwillingness to try to change or plan anything new. Just the status quo. Doesn't matter who the manager is. Maybe we'll get lucky one day with a manager, that's really our only hope if we just continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

This process is groundhog day. I'm not upset that AVB specifically was sacked, but rather that we've been in this same situation three different times.

I really do agree with you. Everyone seems to need a scapegoat nowadays, no-one seems able to admit the other team were just better on that occasion. However Levy has made several massive errors now and I think he needs to step down from his perch and just handle finances.

I know this may sound a tad hypocritical however it is the first time I've ever asked for someone to go.
 
You left out 'the fans' as an option
I had a short twitter convo a few days ago with @ tehTrunk tehTrunk about who was to blame, as he was riding BAE very hard. At the time, I said that the bulk of my ire was at Levy and the fans, but I'm not sure I fully believed what I was typing.

Now I do. Levy turned his back on his promises to build something long-term with a young manager. If AVB was the wrong young manager, then that was something to be solved either before hiring him or during a close season. Not less than halfway through a season when we're on the quadruple. I've been a big apologist for Levy, but this really smarted… Redknapp's short tenure can be explained (he was clearly a stopgap and wore out his welcome by actively alienating the fans), as can Ramos's (lost the dressing room), and Jol's is another mark against Levy.

But this… AVB had done nothing wrong by the supporters except commit seeming aesthetic atrocities. As I said on twitter around the same time, the aesthetic case ('we've been playing dire football despite getting results') against AVB holds little brief, because it ignores any manner of ancillary problems (which are, possibly, AVB's fault… like not having cover for LB). If a painter sold all his blue pigment for drugs, you can't really say, 'this painter is worthless because he doesn't use blue'. You say, instead, 'this painter would be much better if he used blue; it's a shame he has a drugs problem and sold his blue'.

Yet perhaps because all we can ultimately judge is the product on the field, all of our ire gets directed on that final result, and even there, bizarrely, the standards are slippery if not incoherent (results matter only sometimes…). And now those standards are held as etched in stone by harumphing posters here and twitterers elsewhere, injecting the hot air of self-satisfied vindication into their heads while dancing on AVB's career's grave. The celebration suggests that our club has been ridden of some huge weight. As though as soon as that man was out the door, a million blossoms would bloom. A Woolwich relegation party would not have had as eager a guest list.

I've found that response, in a word, despicable. In part because it's disrespectful to a man who clearly did everything he could to make Spurs something worth supporting (even saying no to the far easier—perhaps—job at PSG along the way… would St. Harry have acted similarly? Would any of us?). But also since it acts as though the head coach is the only thing wrong with this club. Last night we saw that wasn't the case… there are deeper problems in play, like a famously aloof chairman who now seems to be meddling, yet to many of our fans, our season's decapitation opened the Christmas season a few days earlier than expected.

All this celebration because AVB's football wasn't up to our aesthetic standards. Ludicrous.
 
Last edited:
I had a short twitter convo a few days ago with @ tehTrunk tehTrunk about who was to blame, as he was riding BAE very hard. At the time, I said that the bulk of my ire was at Levy and the fans, but I'm not sure I fully believed what I was typing.

Now I do. Levy turned his back on his promises to build something long-term with a young manager. If AVB was the wrong young manager, then that was something to be solved either before hiring him or doing a close season. Not less than halfway through a season when we're on the treble. I've been a big apologist for Levy, but this really smarted… Redknapp's short tenure can be explained (he was clearly a stopgap and wore out his welcome by actively alienating the fans), as can Ramos's (lost the dressing room), and Jol's is another mark against Levy.

But this… AVB had done nothing wrong by the supporters except commit seeming aesthetic atrocities. As I said on twitter around the same time, the aesthetic case ('we've been playing dire football despite getting results') against AVB holds little brief, because it ignores any manner of ancillary problems (which are, possibly, AVB's fault… like not having cover for LB). If a painter sold all his blue pigment for drugs, you can't really say, 'this painter is worthless because he doesn't use blue'. You say, instead, 'this painter would be much better if he used blue; it's a shame he has a drugs problem and sold his blue'.

Yet perhaps because all we can ultimately judge is the product on the field, all of our ire gets directed on that final result, and even there, bizarrely, the standards are slippery if not incoherent (results matter only sometimes…). And now those standards held as etched in stone by harumphing posters here and twitterers elsewhere, injecting the hot air of self-satisfied vindication into their heads while dancing on AVB's career's grave. The celebration suggests that our club has been ridden of some huge weight. As though as soon as that man was out the door, a million blossoms would bloom. An Woolwich relegation party would not have had as eager a guest list.

I've found that response, in a word, despicable. In part because it's disrespectful to a man who clearly did everything he could to make Spurs something worth supporting (even saying no to the far easier—perhaps—job at PSG along the way… would St. Harry have acted similarly? Would any of us?). But also since it acts as though the head coach is the only thing wrong with this club. Last night we saw that wasn't the case… there are deeper problems in play, like a famously aloof chairman who now seems to be meddling, yet to many of our fans, our season's decapitation opened the Christmas season a few days earlier than expected.

All this celebration because AVB's football wasn't up to our aesthetic standards. Ludicrous.

+1,000,000
 
It's kind of all of them isn't it?

Daniel Levy appointed AVB, who asked for a technical director and was tied to Baldini, who signed a load of players who appear to have no interest in winning.

I honestly think the players are the most to blame, they've been fucking terrible this year bar a few. The defence especially has been a shambles but the midfield hasn't been much better and we haven't really had a chance to look at our strikers. If they weren't playing for AVB you could argue it's his job to motivate them, but that can be virtually impossible so I do feel sorry for him still.

Baldini sits in the background, made fucking fantastic signings but if AVB didn't want them it's quite counter-productive. However, again this goes back to AVB's stubbornness on the system, these players could have probably been incorporated more effectively.

I don't really understand all the Levy hate recently, I mean yes he has a terrible track record with managers (I believe he got the Jol sacking wrong, and AVB, but I did back him with the Redknapp fiasco). However, he's one of the most financially astute chairmen in the world, and even though we aren't investing millions (which would be ENIC/Lewis' responsibility, not Levy) we do superb business in the transfer windows. Honestly there is no way I would change chairmen, Levy has done wonders for us.

tl;dr: everyone is to blame.
 
To me it boils down, as I wrote above, to his going back on saying that he was appointing a young manager for the long-term. That's all I wanted… that it was specifically AVB was just the cherry on top.

'Long-term' does not exist in football. Especially in today's game. Sure, it may exist if the manager is winning games and trophies on a fairly consistent basis. But, in the end, if you don't get the results...you get the boot. And, in my opinion, rightly so.
 
To me it boils down, as I wrote above, to his going back on saying that he was appointing a young manager for the long-term. That's all I wanted… that it was specifically AVB was just the cherry on top.
Somehow missed your original post, sorry! Agree with points, and I see where you're coming from but for me I can understand why he was sacked. I don't agree with it myself, but it seems that he lost nearly all of our fans after the Liverpool game, and it didn't look like the players were trying any more so it almost made his position untenable.

I do believe he's a good chairman in general though, and without him I don't think we'd be in the position we are now where we have such high expectations every season.
 
It's down to the players.

Many teams have nightmare performances but how many lose 5-0 and 6-0? The players so far have no direction and seem lost when they play.

We've been unlucky with injuries too and that's hampered our ability to find a proper starting XI but still, there's no way a team that has players like we do should be playing to those standards.
 
We've already got the captain of France and Romana plus Dawson and isn't dear Ade captain of Togo?. How many captains do you want.

Preferable 2-3 captains.

Of the sort of players, who wear the armband because they would murder to win, not because they are longest serving, highest earners or jolly nice chaps.

Players who are leaders on the pitch, not shouty-pointy arm flappers.
 
Back
Top Bottom