Tanguy Ndombele

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Spursidol said:
No but I have been in cities abroad where I am the only blonde in town so stick out like a sore thumb.

But the bigger problems for me, and others both white and black working with me, was language, driving on the other side of the road ad all the other things.
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That's your frame of reference? And you are utilizing being a white Englishman anywhere in the world to that of 22 year old Frenchman of Congolese extraction? It must be hard for you. Might I suggest a vigil? And did I say that being black was his biggest obstacle or was it a parenthetical?

Do you honestly believe that the black person you were working with actually confided his/her honest feelings about the situation? Hint: they most likely didn't. Do you know why? Because you and some other fucking knobhead would deny his experience jsut like you and superstaryid superstaryid have just done. Let me be clear, you will never be told the fucking truth in this situation. How can you not know this?

But the arrogance you've displayed in explaining to me how a black man might feel in England is astounding (would that be 'whitesplaining'?). What do you think Tammi Abraham feels about being a black man in England right now? See that? The 'other' always pops up. It's always there and easily visible.

Do you have any familiarity with the social sciences, sir? You pulled some data as if you did. I find this hard to believe that (well-meaning) folks would struggle to understand this issues implicitly. And if you did have SS familiarity/knowledge then I am definitely at a loss. The foxnews/trumper/Brexit crowd I can understand as their incentives are morally corrupt. But other folks?
 
todd1882 said:
That's your frame of reference? And you are utilizing being a white Englishman anywhere in the world to that of 22 year old Frenchman of Congolese extraction? And did I say that being black was his biggest obstacle or was it a parenthetical?

Do you honestly believe that the black person you were working with actually confided his/her honest feelings about the situation? Hint: they most likely didn't. Do you know why? Because you and some other fucking knobhead would deny his experience jsut like you and superstaryid superstaryid have just done. Let me be clear, you will never be told the fucking truth in this situation. How can you not know this?

But the arrogance you've displayed in explaining to me how a black man might feel in England is astounding (would that be 'whitesplaining'?). What do you think Tammi Abraham feels about being a black man in England right now? See that? The 'other' always pops up. It's always there and easily visible.

Do you have any familiarity with the social sciences, sir? You pulled some data as if you did. I find this hard to believe that (well-meaning) folks would struggle to understand this issues implicitly. And if you did have SS familiarity/knowledge then I am definitely at a loss. The foxnews/trumper/Brexit crowd I can understand as their incentives are morally corrupt. But other folks?
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Shut up you silly cunt, you are the ignorant one here.
 
MVP said:
They do in some places in London.
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I'd guess that in London as a whole that maybe 1 in 5 people are non white.

So nobody ( except the small minority of racists, both black and white, that you get in any country) is going to look twice at a non white person, as it's such a common experience.
 
Spursidol said:
I'd guess that in London as a whole that maybe 1 in 5 people are non white.

So nobody ( except the small minority of racists, both black and white, that you get in any country) is going to look twice at a non white person, as it's such a common experience.
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Have a look at this map
en.wikipedia.org

Ethnic groups in London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There is a number of places with not much black people. It's not just about that anyway, there are bars, workplaces, clubs etc where there are barely any black people. When they are there they will stand out like a sore thumb.
 
MVP said:
Have a look at this map
en.wikipedia.org

Ethnic groups in London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There is a number of places with not much black people. It's not just about that anyway, there are bars, workplaces, clubs etc where there are barely any black people. When they are there they will stand out like a sore thumb.
Click to expand...

You could equally say the same thing about non black people in certain inner city locations, doesn't add anything to the discussion we are having.
 
todd1882 said:
That's your frame of reference? And you are utilizing being a white Englishman anywhere in the world to that of 22 year old Frenchman of Congolese extraction? It must be hard for you. Might I suggest a vigil? And did I say that being black was his biggest obstacle or was it a parenthetical?

Do you honestly believe that the black person you were working with actually confided his/her honest feelings about the situation? Hint: they most likely didn't. Do you know why? Because you and some other fucking knobhead would deny his experience jsut like you and superstaryid superstaryid have just done. Let me be clear, you will never be told the fucking truth in this situation. How can you not know this?

But the arrogance you've displayed in explaining to me how a black man might feel in England is astounding (would that be 'whitesplaining'?). What do you think Tammi Abraham feels about being a black man in England right now? See that? The 'other' always pops up. It's always there and easily visible.

Do you have any familiarity with the social sciences, sir? You pulled some data as if you did. I find this hard to believe that (well-meaning) folks would struggle to understand this issues implicitly. And if you did have SS familiarity/knowledge then I am definitely at a loss. The foxnews/trumper/Brexit crowd I can understand as their incentives are morally corrupt. But other folks?
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So no BAME person will ever tell me the truth about being BAME in London, Except you of course.

Really no point in discussion then Mr Know-all.

PS - you have been insinuating that Ndombeles biggest obstacle was being black. And that despite other posters suggesting it's more likely to be language and a whole load of things that any footballer, black white or green will come across.
 
MVP said:
Have a look at this map
en.wikipedia.org

Ethnic groups in London - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There is a number of places with not much black people. It's not just about that anyway, there are bars, workplaces, clubs etc where there are barely any black people. When they are there they will stand out like a sore thumb.
Click to expand...

I did say London as a whole

And people travel across London

So it's pretty unlikely that anyone in London will not see a non white person a few times a week as a minimum. Nothing unusual. Nothing to say " hey look I've seen something really unusual " Most people are more likely to comment on the girl with died green hair. Except even that isn't that unusual thee days.
 
Spursidol said:
I did say London as a whole

And people travel across London

So it's pretty unlikely that anyone in London will not see a non white person a few times a week as a minimum. Nothing unusual. Nothing to say " hey look I've seen something really unusual " Most people are more likely to comment on the girl with died green hair. Except even that isn't that unusual thee days.
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They don't have to travel across London, they could switch on their, use their internet where they can view black people in videos. But that's a totally different thing to interacting with them in person. That's total different to not believing in stereotypes.

I don't know where he lives but he might be living in an afluent area with no black people at all. You can't hide colour, Defoe was stopped several times by the police he was black.
I'm not saying Ndombele's colour is definitely a factor but it shouldn't be discounted as a possibility.
 
MVP said:
They don't have to travel across London, they could switch on their, use their internet where they can view black people in videos. But that's a totally different thing to interacting with them in person. That's total different to not believing in stereotypes.

I don't know where he lives but he might be living in an afluent area with no black people at all. You can't hide colour, Defoe was stopped several times by the police he was black.
I'm not saying Ndombele's colour is definitely a factor but it shouldn't be discounted as a possibility.
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Thanks for this - agree with the interaction point and getting away from any pre conceived stereotypes. But with kids at school it's very difficult in Greater London (2011 census 69.7% were white or almost 1 in 3 not) to not be in class or not play games with people from different ethnic backgrounds. Obviously can be different for adult emigrants to UK who may not have had that history of interaction with those of different ethnic backgrounds.

Original poster was making it seem as if colour was the major factor, rather than language or just there being lots of differences ( eg driving on different sides of the road, what is considered discourteous etc) which is where other posters were trying to suggest was the issue.

Agreed that colour can make people think they stand out - but equally that's true of people with a physical disability or even something like a significant stutter when talking. Or a whole host of other things. And the point of bringing up disabled or stutterers is that lots of people have something which they have experience of a small minority of others making them feel different and uncomfortable or worse.

Whatever it is, the person needs to get comfortable with themselves - sounds easy but I know it's not - and it can be a long battle, even a lifetimes battle. Worth remembering that it's a small minority of people who are really racist or laugh at disabled people or any other affliction. The majority of people are very accepting of individuals in this country whatever their differences.

Ndombeles performance yesterday looked like he was starting to get on top of PL football. Might well take him months more to get to his peak, but that's the risk of transfers for all footballers. And when it does hopefully any ethnicity issues will have become minimised - and in the next few months that his ability to speak English will increase to help him interact better with other players and interact more easily in the outside world.
 
Spursidol said:
Thanks for this - agree with the interaction point and getting away from any pre conceived stereotypes. But with kids at school it's very difficult in Greater London (2011 census 69.7% were white or almost 1 in 3 not) to not be in class or not play games with people from different ethnic backgrounds. Obviously can be different for adult emigrants to UK who may not have had that history of interaction with those of different ethnic backgrounds.

Original poster was making it seem as if colour was the major factor, rather than language or just there being lots of differences ( eg driving on different sides of the road, what is considered discourteous etc) which is where other posters were trying to suggest was the issue.

Agreed that colour can make people think they stand out - but equally that's true of people with a physical disability or even something like a significant stutter when talking. Or a whole host of other things. And the point of bringing up disabled or stutterers is that lots of people have something which they have experience of a small minority of others making them feel different and uncomfortable or worse.

Whatever it is, the person needs to get comfortable with themselves - sounds easy but I know it's not - and it can be a long battle, even a lifetimes battle. Worth remembering that it's a small minority of people who are really racist or laugh at disabled people or any other affliction. The majority of people are very accepting of individuals in this country whatever their differences.

Ndombeles performance yesterday looked like he was starting to get on top of PL football. Might well take him months more to get to his peak, but that's the risk of transfers for all footballers. And when it does hopefully any ethnicity issues will have become minimised - and in the next few months that his ability to speak English will increase to help him interact bletter with other players and interact more easily in the outside world.
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Sure but kids can be very cruel sometimes and they are impressionable, if the parents are racist they may become racist as well until such time they can educate themselves.

I think a small minority blatantly discriminate but the truth of it a large amount of racism is subtle and the person may never know they've been sinned against. Racism is a rabbit hole which is endless and I say again I don't definitely know but I'm not going to discount the possibility of his colour being a major factor.

As regards to the way he's performing, I said this yesterday he's got two goals and only 7 games have gone. Poch has said it can take 7 months for new players to be integrated. Some think because we paid 60 m he MUST perform NOW, those people need to be patient. I'm not expecting to see the best of him and our other new signings until next season.
 
We have several Black players and several French speakers, so it should not be a problem. We only have one oriental player and he has intergrated very well. I agree with the poster who said he should have acknowledged Son's unselfish set up. I let him off on basis that he just did not think of it in the heat of the moment but hope he does so next time.
 
Moderators, could you take a moment and move this racial discussion/dispute the hell away from here?
Nothing really to do with Ndombele :thumbup:

Spursidol said:
Sissoko 's main strength is powerful running, so when you most need him in position beside you in CM.....he might well be upfield or at best trying to get back.

So better to have Dier (or Skipp if Dier not yet fit enough) and Winks beside Ndombele.

That allows Dier to sit deep and allow Ndombele and Winks to be slightly further forward when we are in possession.
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HAVE
BEEN
SAYING
THIS
SINCE
VILLA
GAME.

Use a god damn DM. I think Dier seems to be quite fit based on the Colchester game.
He is far from perfect but he is best we have right now (I guess anyone who saw Skipp and Wanyama vs Colchester can agree with me).
So use him.
It gives protection to defense and it frees up Ndombele and Winks/Sissoko to roam forward and do what they are better at doing! PLZ Poch, do it vs Bayern (if you don't want us to get shread to pieces!)
 
ginola92 said:
Was our only good player on the night, came off and we completely capitulated
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The capitulation had started before that. Ndombele was excellent first half and is going to be one of the world's best soon, but he was completely and utterly out of gas. His fitness is still nowhere near good enough for how much running Poch requires from his central midfielders.
 
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