TAG AND SOS

[Anthony Beale]

You're right to say that football is there to be enjoyed, but I can't agree with it being just entertainment / escapism. My idea of entertainment is a good time (concerts, theatre, cinema, night down the pub, meal out) and if it doesn't turn out not to be that great, you shrug and say 'ah well, won't do that again in a hurry'. Being a Spurs supporter is so much more profound than that - when Spurs don't win, I'm miserable as sin and make everybody near me miserable too, but it doesn't enter my mind not to put myself through the same torture week after week, season after season.

Still a form of escapism though, isn't it. Its just one that we emotionally invest in because its ever changing and unfolds right in front of us. Its not like theatre, or film, where you're entirely passive. With football you can make a difference.
like you say, a bad game doesn't put you off going again, because its different every time. If you go see a band, every show of the tour will be pretty much the same.
Similarly, if you saw your favourite band having a bad gig, you wouldn't go online and demand their label manager be sacked.

 

[Anthony Beale]

When its all said and done, the choice is between moaning about something thats not going to change. Or not moaning about something thats not going to change. Things are going pretty swimmingly for us at the moment. We have no god given right to be finishing in the top 6, and there are many teams that would love to knock us off that perch. And yet year after year, for quite a while now, there we are. Perhaps people underestimate just what it takes to be a sustained top 6 club. Perhaps people think us finishing 5th, above liverpool last season was inevitable. I don't know.
But what i do know, is its a pretty fun time to be a spurs supporter. Part of me is a bit gutted i'll never get to take my child to white hart lane. But then also at the same time, part of me is looking forward to being able to fit through the turnstiles, and to sit in chairs made for human being sized people. I can sure as shit say traveling to brussels and monaco is gonna be a laugh, win lose or draw. Far more so than some of the cold cup games up north i went to in the 90's. Some peoples overpriced tottenham branded glasses are half empty, mines half full.

Life is short. Spammy's a twat. TTID. Beale out xxxx

 

[Millbanks]

If it came to it, I could accept if we sell my/our soul; win the Champions League before they do........whatever the price yes please! They'd be absolutely gutted and sick about it forever.

More worried about how Woolwich fans feel than you are about our club.

Every fuckin club in Europe wants to win the CL. Why the fuck should we be next? You don't support the best team in Europe, far from it. And quite frankly, I dread to think what our fanbase would become if we were ever purchased by an owner willing to piss hundreds of millions every transfer window. The expectations would be huge, and the moaning would be rife when we don't win the treble every year.

When will people realise - we aren't and never will be Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern Munich. If you aren't happy with our improvements as a club under Levy, in my opinion you're never going to be happy. We'll always fall short of your expectations, it will never quite be good enough for you. Finish 3rd - should have been 2nd. Win the league - but went out in the quarters of the CL.

It's a shit thing to say, but if you want to follow one of the best teams in Europe, you need a new club. We're not that, and possibly never will be. I can deal with that - I actually take pride in being a bit different. This country is littered with kids wearing Utd and Liverpool shirts - I don't know how I'd feel about Spurs being that sort of club. I'm not saying I don't want success, but there's something magical about being a Tottenham fan. We're not quite as good as all the popular boys, but we're better than the rest. I can live with that.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Why is this argument so emotive and devisive? I've just been drinking with a Spurs mate of mine. He is a bit of a Levy fan and I'm not. We had an interesting chat, and 4 pints later we agreed that we both had a point. Why is this place so black & white?

Written text is B & W ?

 

[ArtyB]

Written text is B & W ?

Not always...

 

[John Thomas]

More worried about how Woolwich fans feel than you are about our club.

Every fuckin club in Europe wants to win the CL. Why the fuck should we be next? You don't support the best team in Europe, far from it. And quite frankly, I dread to think what our fanbase would become if we were ever purchased by an owner willing to piss hundreds of millions every transfer window. The expectations would be huge, and the moaning would be rife when we don't win the treble every year.

When will people realise - we aren't and never will be Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern Munich. If you aren't happy with our improvements as a club under Levy, in my opinion you're never going to be happy. We'll always fall short of your expectations, it will never quite be good enough for you. Finish 3rd - should have been 2nd. Win the league - but went out in the quarters of the CL.

It's a shit thing to say, but if you want to follow one of the best teams in Europe, you need a new club. We're not that, and possibly never will be. I can deal with that - I actually take pride in being a bit different. This country is littered with kids wearing Utd and Liverpool shirts - I don't know how I'd feel about Spurs being that sort of club. I'm not saying I don't want success, but there's something magical about being a Tottenham fan. We're not quite as good as all the popular boys, but we're better than the rest. I can live with that.

No one is saying we should compare ourselves to Madrid or Barcelona. Some of us are just not happy with the direction we're heading and the decisions being made by the club.Stub hub, the German tour fiasco, One striker, CL ticket prices, no net investment in the team. The list is endless. And all on the back of record breaking profits. And don't forget, it costs more to watch Spurs play than the 3 clubs you mention. Surely you can see why some fans have a different take on things than you.

 

[Simmo]

More worried about how Woolwich fans feel than you are about our club.

Every fuckin club in Europe wants to win the CL. Why the fuck should we be next? You don't support the best team in Europe, far from it. And quite frankly, I dread to think what our fanbase would become if we were ever purchased by an owner willing to piss hundreds of millions every transfer window. The expectations would be huge, and the moaning would be rife when we don't win the treble every year.

When will people realise - we aren't and never will be Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern Munich. If you aren't happy with our improvements as a club under Levy, in my opinion you're never going to be happy. We'll always fall short of your expectations, it will never quite be good enough for you. Finish 3rd - should have been 2nd. Win the league - but went out in the quarters of the CL.

It's a shit thing to say, but if you want to follow one of the best teams in Europe, you need a new club. We're not that, and possibly never will be. I can deal with that - I actually take pride in being a bit different. This country is littered with kids wearing Utd and Liverpool shirts - I don't know how I'd feel about Spurs being that sort of club. I'm not saying I don't want success, but there's something magical about being a Tottenham fan. We're not quite as good as all the popular boys, but we're better than the rest. I can live with that.

'If you don't like it fuck off' hey, predictable.

You are a prick and a loser. It's supposed to be sport not business, you try to take that high road then forget about the competition element of it. Fine to be different but not fine to fail to maximise your potential constantly, that's just weak and incompetent, in our case it's the financial ambition of an investment company driving part of it.

We're better off under Levy yes, so what the fuck has that got to do with my point? ENIC are hundreds of millions better off with us too dickhead, is it stopping them from ensuring the asset is maxed out? No. Is it stopping them focussing on the team more? Yes.

 

[Millbanks]

No one is saying we should compare ourselves to Madrid or Barcelona. Some of us are just not happy with the direction we're heading and the decisions being made by the club.Stub hub, the German tour fiasco, One striker, CL ticket prices, no net investment in the team. The list is endless. And all on the back of record breaking profits. And don't forget, it costs more to watch Spurs play than the 3 clubs you mention. Surely you can see why some fans have a different take on things than you.

As I've said before, you can keep listing bad decisions which many I agree are bad, but you make out as though we're unique in being the only club to have made some mistakes. Every...EVERY club makes mistakes, makes bad decisions. There was a 'Kenwright Out, banner flown by Everton fans the other week - they were up until recently on par with us and trying to break into the top 4. They finished bottom half last season despite spunking a fortune on several players.

It's just not as simple as you make out.

The 'no net investment in the team' argument - yet I had someone earlier saying we should have reserved some of the Bale money for a later date. Can you not see what the club is up against? So many opinions - so many different views on how to manage the club, the squad, the transfers, the finances. The only thing ENIC can be judged on is how we do on the pitch, and in my honest opinion, they've done a fantastic job in taking us from a lower midtable club to the brink of Champions League football year after year, all the while putting the foundations in place to make sure we can continue to do so and possibly make that jump in the next few years.

I completely understand people have gripes with Levy; even hate him. He has many many faults as a chairman of a football club. But as I've said already in this thread, the man most people seem to want simply doesn't exist, and therefore if choosing out of all current PL chairman, I'd still probably stick with Levy, as he is one of few to have taken a club of our size and really push onto the next level sustainably.

I wouldn't keep arguing the toss though if I weren't interested in the other side of the coin. Genuinely interests me hearing all opinions of Levy.

'If you don't like it fuck off' hey, predictable.

You are a prick and a loser. It's supposed to be sport not business, you try to take that high road then forget about the competition element of it. Fine to be different but not fine to fail to maximise your potential constantly, that's just weak and incompetent, in our case it's the financial ambition of an investment company driving part of it.

We're better off under Levy yes, so what the fuck has that got to do with my point? ENIC are hundreds of millions better off with us too dickhead, is it stopping them from ensuring the asset is maxed out? No. Is it stopping them focussing on the team more? Yes.

You can't separate football and business, they go hand in hand.

IN YOUR OPINION we have failed to maximise our potential. EVERY SINGLE FAN OF EVERY CLUB probably has that same opinion. "If only we bought 'x' player"..."if only we'd have beaten 'x' club, we'd have moved onto the next level". It's all so simple in your head to just keep climbing the ladder until we're No.1. Tell you what, seems as you have all the answers, why not buy a non-league club and we'll keep an eye on your rise through the leagues until you're European champions?

I'm happy to have reasonable debate, but if you're going to resort to name calling, quite frankly we can stop this right now.

 

[Millbanks]

I keep seeing people complain that we're owned by an investment company, therefore all they're doing is increasing our value to a point at which time they will sell.

So you don't like Levy, but you're also not happy he's going to sell us? And you're also unhappy we're owned by an investment company, whose only way of increasing our value is buy succeeding as a business and a football club (which they have done so far)?

I'm so confused.

What do you want? A billionaire that can't spell Tottenham but wants to try and turn us into European champions?
A rich fan that wants to invest all profits and a small amount of his own money to run us at a small but sustainable loss?

Without a model that dictates fans have an actual say on matters (see 50+1 Bundesliga model) I genuinely don't know if the man/company you all crave is out there.

 

[Fidel Castro]

The only thing ENIC can be judged on is how we do on the pitch, and in my honest opinion, they've done a fantastic job

.

That has to be quote of the year . I'm sorry to say that you are completely out of touch with general opinion . They are loved and adored by our rivals as they see them as suffocating any football ambition . You can never understand how so many feel , said in a very polite way .

 

[sammyspurs]

You're right to say that football is there to be enjoyed, but I can't agree with it being just entertainment / escapism. My idea of entertainment is a good time (concerts, theatre, cinema, night down the pub, meal out) and if it doesn't turn out not to be that great, you shrug and say 'ah well, won't do that again in a hurry'. Being a Spurs supporter is so much more profound than that - when Spurs don't win, I'm miserable as sin and make everybody near me miserable too, but it doesn't enter my mind not to put myself through the same torture week after week, season after season.
Going back to the original post, I don't think ENIC get it right every time, and some of the decisions they have taken make me shake my head in disbelief. However, they have kept us on a financial even keel for yonks, and we need a steady ship in the next few years until the new stadium is up and running. Not sure campaigning to get rid of Levy/ENIC will put us in a better situation - knowing our luck, we'll get someone even worse!

 

[sammyspurs]

Similarly, if you saw your favourite band having a bad gig, you wouldn't go online and demand their label manager be sacked.

No but if they had 50 bad gigs a year you might stop listening to them....or maybe you pretend you had a great time there anyway

With football, you cant just stop, so what do you do?
Pretend everything is great, or voice your opinions?

You are shit scared of negativity. Sometimes thats what brings about change though.

 

[Millbanks]

That has to be quote of the year . I'm sorry to say that you are completely out of touch with general opinion . They are loved and adored by our rivals as they see them as suffocating any football ambition . You can never understand how so many feel , said in a very polite way .

Yes I'm sure all those clubs below us revel in delight that our owners have made us a better club than we were before. What joy that must bring them.

So ENIC are to be judged on everything. But a rich Sheikh would only be judged by results on the pitch as he'd for sure bring us success through sheer weight of investment, we'd be happy to forgive and forget that generally they're cunts that have no love or affection or ties to the club and they would MOST DEFINITELY make mistakes (particularly with transfers) as we've seen with Chelsea and City. The buying and recycling of players is horrendous, but that won't be seen as a mistake because we can move them on at a great financial loss and buy another.

Fantastic solution. I'm all ears for another.

 

[mouse]

Again, why do we hate Roman and the Sheikhs? They plough personal fortunes into their clubs, our billionaire is just increasing his own wealth through us.

Those teams lucked out, no matter what the cause. How did we feel when Drogba tucked that penalty away compared to the chavs? The absolute pits compared to their utter and ultimate elation. We hate Terry with a passion yet he can wave a wheel-barrow of medals and cash in our faces. Would City fans ever swap the last gasp Aguero goal snatching the title from United after watching them dominate for over 20 years while they toiled?

Fuck off would they, I still get goosebumps watching Lennon tap it in the net for 4-4 and what did that point mean in a season we finished 8th and those cunts were top 4 as usual!?

After 1987 (and even that year they did a cup and we fucked up in the final), there have been very few times I've felt we were better than them (in footballing terms). The one time we finished above them and when Harry was in charge and yet we STILL didn't finish above them so ultimately we weren't.

If it came to it, I could accept if we sell my/our soul; win the Champions League before they do........whatever the price yes please! They'd be absolutely gutted and sick about it forever.

If you’re interested in having the “ethical” discussion purely from a footballing point of view, and it’s just about people who complain they want to “win things the right way” then fair enough (not that I have a problem with that either).

The idea that Chelsea and Man City are nothing more than millionaires play things is a naive one.

Please see my post here: Management - Club statement about transfers

The agenda of Abramovich and Mansour has always been to use their clubs as a means of improving their reputation in the west, legitimising themselves as business men and distracting away from their more controversial activities.

From a completely selfish point of view, “borrowing” monumental sums of money from these “business men” for short turn gain is a temperamental game to say the least.

 

[pleb]

Why is this argument so emotive and devisive? I've just been drinking with a Spurs mate of mine. He is a bit of a Levy fan and I'm not. We had an interesting chat, and 4 pints later we agreed that we both had a point. Why is this place so black & white?

Its only what you perceive it to be!

 

[Eskimo]

"Melting" seems to have taken a different meaning in the Internet Spurs era.

Melting used to mean "not standing up in what you believe in", " running away", "not facing what is bad for you or the club"

In Internet Spurs land "melting" means looking at the state of the club and blindly saying "it's been shitter than this let's accept the status quo.

When sugar sacked Venables a group of young Spurs fans got together. They called themselves "TAG" the Tottenham action group. Not a cool name but a name that summed them up. They wanted Sugar out, they could see that one man had other interests at heart than the good of the club.

So what did TAG do? They marched, they made Sugars life uncomfortable. They (I) spat on sugar as he entered the club. Chanted obscenities now only reserved for an ex player, long gone.

The attitude now is "it's his club, he can do what he wants", I say, it was sugars club and we made it so he didn't want to stay.

Sugar was (is) an egotist, a one eyed barrow boy with his own interest at heart but I'm not sure he is nearly as bad as Levy. I don't think Sugars plan was ever to make Spurs make him rich, he would have been a complete fool to think in those days it would.....he just got off on the power. Now there are darker forces at work.

A chairman who is in the end game.....unfortunately he can't yet find a mug to pay the asking price to allow the next 10 generations of Levys to put their feet up and enjoy the ill gotten gain of our loyalty.

I would happily March again, I'm old but not that old but it takes a ground swell of young active supporters to make this work. Unfortunately the average young Spurs supporter is more worried about how many points Giroud got in his fantasy team and who he can sign on FIFA online.

We are sleepwalking into and disaster and there is nothing we can do until some fuckers mobilise and makes this cunts life unbearable.

Instead of printing glossy mags, TFC, should be printing LEVY OUT banners. If you don't, we are consigned. The new stadium won't happen because, let's face it, no one will want to put their name to us.

To dare is to do. The club isn't daring......so we should.

COYS XX

Were you at the "clandestine meeting" at the Counting House where SOS was formed?

 

[Sunglasses Ron]

It's just so upsetting that we try to build a football team with one hand tied behind our backs while the other hand is clutching 80m in profit.

Spot on.

 

[Sunglasses Ron]

Been going to football since I was 5 months old. I've a pretty good idea of what I enjoy from it by now.

You continue to moan about board members and managers we haven't had for three years, and I'll keep going to games and we'll see who's happier.

Where are you gonna be sat at 19:45 on the 23rd of September? And are you going to be moaning or having a good time?

Leave it out. It's such a pony argument.

I'll be Park Lane Lower on the 23rd. That by default doesn't mean I'll have good time. If we continue to serve up the same shite that's been dished out over the past year / year and a half, I can tell you now I won't be having a good time.

If we're three down after 60 minutes, i assume you'll be the fella standing there with a grin plastered all over his face?

Do me a favour.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I reckon Stoke aren't far from their glass ceiling with their fan base and stadium though - I bet their fans become disgruntled when they realise that the only way is down.

Of course, but that's not the point. It seems he is an owner who cares about the club and who is not there to make money. He has invested his own money, but not in a stupid or reckless way. He has tried to treat the fans with respect, e.g. ticket prices and the free away travel. In other words, he appears to be more like an old school football chairman in the era up to the 80s.

I'm not saying we become like Stoke City. I'm saying an owner like him, a rich person who supports Spurs and is happy to invest without hoping to use us to fund their own wealth, but who is also trying to make the club self-sustaining, would be an ideal scenario.

You could say that under this scenario we would still have our own glass ceiling, which is true. But it would be higher than it is currently under Levy.

 

[pleb]

Spot on.

Agree
Your Avatar is probably the best on this site brilliant!