TAG AND SOS

[Joe Clash]

Oh dear. Is Joe pretending to be a woman again, or is this an actual woman? I think probably its a woman because for all Joe's faults he can spell.
Love, it is never too late to get off the smack. Your mother still loves you. Have a wash, sober up, go back and tell her you will change. Nothing is worse than the life you are living now.

Your rude what life our u Livni g now! We have some draw an a bottle of rum. Jo is a merely mouthed fuker. Spurs are for the older people in the heritage. We do anyone but were sorted now. Chil spink xxx

 

[LarryCatt]

Of course, but that's not the point. It seems he is an owner who cares about the club and who is not there to make money. He has invested his own money, but not in a stupid or reckless way. He has tried to treat the fans with respect, e.g. ticket prices and the free away travel. In other words, he appears to be more like an old school football chairman in the era up to the 80s.

I'm not saying we become like Stoke City. I'm saying an owner like him, a rich person who supports Spurs and is happy to invest without hoping to use us to fund their own wealth, but who is also trying to make the club self-sustaining, would be an ideal scenario.

You could say that under this scenario we would still have our own glass ceiling, which is true. But it would be higher than it is currently under Levy.

What???

No football chairman has ever done this!

People forget. Professional football in the UK wasn't created for the fans. It was created purely, 100% and the only reason, TO MAKE THE OWNERS MONEY. Football League 1888. Twelve popular clubs got together to arrange organised and regular football to keep revenue streams ticking over in between the even more popular FA Cup matches. 1880's Britain wasn't populated with German social clubs.

The owners built bigger stadiums. Not because they cared about the fans. Oh no. It was to make more money by getting more people in. Squeezing them in tightly into terracing made from railway sleepers and ash. Rarely where these facilities upgraded. Pissing down the back of the guy in front of you. Being crushed within an inch of your life (and sadly people dying across four major disasters) or burnt to death because "the old school football chairman" didn't bother to clear out the stand of flammable rubbish that had laid strewn for 40 years.

Fans/consumers if you will, far more savvy these days. In general, football clubs are better run and better administered than they ever have been at any point in their history.We don't get pished on, we can get a beer (on the concourse), we can see the game without hurting on necks, we get decent facilities (except the East stand, granted).

Bob Lord, Louis Edwards, Louis Mears, Hill Wood, Richardson, Swales, Ellis. These are similar guys, presiding over clubs with attendances of 70k plus whilst playing their players £20 a week in winter, £12 a week in the summer. These are the type of guys who really asset stripped.....

To really re-cycle an old Harry quote, this really is as good as it gets.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

What???

No football chairman has ever done this!

People forget. Professional football in the UK wasn't created for the fans. It was created purely, 100% and the only reason, TO MAKE THE OWNERS MONEY. Football League 1888. Twelve popular clubs got together to arrange organised and regular football to keep revenue streams ticking over in between the even more popular FA Cup matches. 1880's Britain wasn't populated with German social clubs.

The owners built bigger stadiums. Not because they cared about the fans. Oh no. It was to make more money by getting more people in. Squeezing them in tightly into terracing made from railway sleepers and ash. Rarely where these facilities upgraded. Pissing down the back of the guy in front of you. Being crushed within an inch of your life (and sadly people dying across four major disasters) or burnt to death because "the old school football chairman" didn't bother to clear out the stand of flammable rubbish that had laid strewn for 40 years.

Fans/consumers if you will, far more savvy these days. In general, football clubs are better run and better administered than they ever have been at any point in their history.We don't get pished on, we can get a beer (on the concourse), we can see the game without hurting on necks, we get decent facilities (except the East stand, granted).

Bob Lord, Louis Edwards, Louis Mears, Hill Wood, Richardson, Swales, Ellis. These are similar guys, presiding over clubs with attendances of 70k plus whilst playing their players £20 a week in winter, £12 a week in the summer. These are the type of guys who really asset stripped.....

To really re-cycle an old Harry quote, this really is as good as it gets.

I remember reading an old post here, can't be arsed finding it, I think it was by Éperons about how Spurs used to be run pre-Scholar. The people in charge did not try and make money out of running the club, they re-invested all the profits and often lost some of their own wealth in the process. I remember reading that 90% of the board came from Tottenham and they were all Spurs fans. That's what I mean by old school owners, and that is how Stoke appear to be run too. Maybe a Stoke fan could correct me, but from what I've read it seems to be the case.

You could say that these people didn't run the club for the fans, you could perhaps say that their aim was to have status/power/influence/the prestige of running a football club. But they weren't trying to make money. If you look at the sums, I think you'll find people like Coates, Whelan at Wigan, and Kenwright at Everton, and I'm sure some others, don't stand to gain financially from their work at those clubs. I'm not saying they are angels, just that as I understand it, not all chairmen are in it for the pound signs.

I tend to disagree about football clubs being better run. The experience of going is safer, and more "pleasant", yes. However, financially many clubs are run very badly, owners taking massive risks for personal gain, owners who don't care about the traditions of the club, owners who are using the club purely as a financial tool etc. I believe this is a relatively new thing. In older times, owners knew they could not expect to make a profit from football.

 

[superstaryid]

Your rude what life our u Livni g now! We have some draw an a bottle of rum. Jo is a merely mouthed fuker. Spurs are for the older people in the heritage. We do anyone but were sorted now. Chil spink xxx

Wtf !

 

[LarryCatt]

I remember reading an old post here, can't be arsed finding it, I think it was by Éperons about how Spurs used to be run pre-Scholar. The people in charge did not try and make money out of running the club, they re-invested all the profits and often lost some of their own wealth in the process. I remember reading that 90% of the board came from Tottenham and they were all Spurs fans. That's what I mean by old school owners, and that is how Stoke appear to be run too. Maybe a Stoke fan could correct me, but from what I've read it seems to be the case.

You could say that these people didn't run the club for the fans, you could perhaps say that their aim was to have status/power/influence/the prestige of running a football club. But they weren't trying to make money. If you look at the sums, I think you'll find people like Coates, Whelan at Wigan, and Kenwright at Everton, and I'm sure some others, don't stand to gain financially from their work at those clubs. I'm not saying they are angels, just that as I understand it, not all chairmen are in it for the pound signs.

I tend to disagree about football clubs being better run. The experience of going is safer, and more "pleasant", yes. However, financially many clubs are run very badly, owners taking massive risks for personal gain, owners who don't care about the traditions of the club, owners who are using the club purely as a financial tool etc. I believe this is a relatively new thing. In older times, owners knew they could not expect to make a profit from football.

Good reply. Nice one.

Though - look at all the relatively large clubs who nearly went to the wall in the 70's and 80's - mainly due to either huge mismanagement and/or neglect from the owners: Burnley, Wolves, Fulham, Charlton, Palace, Chelsea (several times) - all hauled out of receivership at the very last moment. Everton fans currently running campaigns against Bill Kenwright and the Everton board, flying planes at Southampton etc...

 

[Bazali]

It seems sometimes people think changing owners is like changing managers.

It's not. We're stuck with ENIC, and Levy, until THEY see fit to leave. No amount of bitching and moaning will change that fact.

If you think protests, banners, whatever is going to get the anonymous Joe Lewis to sell up, you are the height of naivety. That's why he employs and pays Levy so handsomely with all the perks of an owner, to take this shit.

Levy quits due to pressure from the fans (unlikely to impossible)? Lewis just brings in another puppet to keep the profit machine going.

Just get behind the players and manager that is here. It's our only option.

It's not our only option!

Fans can stop going

Fans can stop buying merchandise

Empty seats and tills will have an effect

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

It's not our only option!

Fans can stop going

Fans can stop buying merchandise

Empty seats and tills will have an effect

Pipe dreams don't help. That'll never, ever happen.

I'm also not sure what the result of that action is? Even less money for us to not spend? Even more austerity?

The one thing people are pissed of about gets compounded?

 

[Bazali]

Maybe we should just all become Swansea fans and be done with it...

Don't tell Gibbsy.....

 

[Bazali]

Pipe dreams don't help. That'll never, ever happen.

I'm also not sure what the result of that action is? Even less money for us to not spend? Even more austerity?

The one thing people are pissed of about gets compounded?

IF it did happen the result could be getting rid of JL, Levy and Enic!

I agree that's unlikely but it is another option unlike your only option of grinning and bearing it!

 

[Mr S Pippo]

I have read all the comments with interest and have been informed. Although I sympathise with the 'Levy out' brigade, there isn't an alternative being put forward. My view is, to stay with what you have until an alternative is put forward. Then and only then can we all compare. You can show your discontent now and hope some things change however, be careful for what you wish for. It could be a lot worse if Enic/Levy move aside.

 

[Bazali]

I have read all the comments with interest and have been informed. Although I sympathise with the 'Levy out' brigade, there isn't an alternative being put forward. My view is, to stay with what you have until an alternative is put forward. Then and only then can we all compare. You can show your discontent now and hope some things change however, be careful for what you wish for. It could be a lot worse if Enic/Levy move aside.

It could be a lot better though

It's called optimism, ambition!

Remember the old but true quote, "Spurs have to be the best team in the land not the 2nd best"
Or something like that!

 

[Mr S Pippo]

It's not our only option!

Fans can stop going

Fans can stop buying merchandise

Empty seats and tills will have an effect

Fundermentally fans support the team first.
Actions as said will effect the 11 on the pitch.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

It could be a lot better though

It's called optimism, ambition!

Remember the old but true quote, "Spurs have to be the best team in the land not the 2nd best"
Or something like that!

Im optimistic with every season, thats football. Im also realistic and know the level we are playing at and what needs to change to get amongst the best in Europe. An alternative to Enic/Levy will need to be at a higher financial level. Who?

 

[Bazali]

Fundermentally fans support the team first.
Actions as said will effect the 11 on the pitch.

Yes I agree and will click the appropriate box as that really matters to some but I'm taking the long term view in that I want these penny pinching cunts out of here and my club, who I have supported for 54yrs, back!

 

[Bazali]

Im optimistic with every season, thats football. Im also realistic and know the level we are playing at and what needs to change to get amongst the best in Europe. An alternative to Enic/Levy will need to be at a higher financial level. Who?

I don't know but that doesn't stop me from making the point!

It's like asking me who I think will make a better leader of the Labour Party!
I would have said anyone but Miliband but it looks as though they are going to get someone worse!
They're mistake!

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.

 

[Nick "Trevor" Sharp]

Just a little note regarding the myth around Levy/ENIC being the worst for manager turnover. I checked the number of full time managers each PL team* have had during the ENIC era. Here's the results, with all the names in the spoiler below.

*note I used the 2014/15 teams to compare it to final table position, the spoiler list is in that order.

1st Woolwich x 1
2nd Man Utd x 3
3rd Everton x 3
4th Liverpool x 5
5th Burnley x 6
6th Man City x 7
7th Stoke x 7
8th Tottenham x 8
9th West Ham x 8
10th Villa x 8
11th Hull x 8
12th West Brom x 9
13th Chelsea x 10
14th Swansea x 10
15th Newcastle x 11
16th Sunderland x 11
17th Leicester x 13
18th QPR x 13
19th Southampton x 14
20th Palace x 14

Spoiler: Data

Chelsea x 10
Ranieri
Mourinho
Grant
Scolari
Hiddink
Ancelotti
AVB
Di Matteo
Benitez
Mourinho

Man City x 7
Royale
Keegan
Pearce
Sven
Highes
Mancini
Pellegrini

Woolwich x 1
Wenger

Man Utd x 3
Ferguson
Moyes
van Gaal

Tottenham x 8
Hoddle
Santini
Jol
Ramos
Redknapp
AVB
Sherwood
Pochettino

Liverpool x 5
Houllier
Benitez
Hodgson
Dalglish
Rodgers

Southampton x 14
Hoddle
Gray
Strachan
Wigley
Sturrock
Redknapp
Burley
Pearson
Poortvilet
Wotte
Pardew
Adkins
Pochettino
Koeman

Swansea x 10
Hollins
Addison
Cusack
Flynn
Jackett
Martinez
Sousa
Rodgers
Laudrup
Monk

Stoke x 7
Gudjon
Cotterill
Kevan
Pulis
Boskamp
Pulis
Hughes

Palace x 14
Smith
Bruce
Francis
Kember
Dowie
Taylor
Warnock
Hart
Burley
Freedman
Holloway
Pulis
Warnock
Pardew

Everton x 3
Smith
Moyes
Martinez

West Ham x 8
Redknapp
Roeder
Pardew
Curbishley
Zola
Grant
Allardyce
Bilic

West Brom x 9
Megson
Robson
Mowbray
Di Matteo
Hodgson
Clarke
Mel
Irvine
Pulis

Leicester x 13
Taylor
Bassett
Adams
Levein
Kelly
Allen
Megson
Holloway
Pearson
Sousa
Eriksson
Pearson
Ranieri

Newcastle x 11
Robson
Souness
Roeder
Allardyce
Keegan
Kinnear
Shearer
Hughton
Pardew
Carver
McClaren

Sunderland x 11
Reid
Wilkinson
McCarthy
Quinn
Keane
Sbragia
Bruce
O'Neill
Di Canio
Poyet
Advocaat

Villa x 8
Gregory
Taylor
O'Leary
O'Neill
Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood

Hull x 8
Little
Molby
Taylor
Parkinson
Brown
Pearson
Barmby
Bruce

Burnley x 6
Ternent
Cotterill
Coyle
Laws
Howe
Dyche

QPR x 13
Francis
Holloway
Waddock
Gregory
De Vanio
Dowie
Sousa
Magilton
Hart
Warnock
Hughes
Redknapp
Ramsey

 

[Eskimo]

I have read all the comments with interest and have been informed. Although I sympathise with the 'Levy out' brigade, there isn't an alternative being put forward. My view is, to stay with what you have until an alternative is put forward. Then and only then can we all compare. You can show your discontent now and hope some things change however, be careful for what you wish for. It could be a lot worse if Enic/Levy move aside.

Do you know what, people said the exact same thing when SOS were wanting Sugar out.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Yes I agree and will click the appropriate box as that really matters to some but I'm taking the long term view in that I want these penny pinching cunts out of here and my club, who I have supported for 54yrs, back!

I agree to a point. We need to look at the whole picture. Training facilities / new stadium 'buying players etc all good. I guess they are a finical organisation that needs to speculate to accelerate and not just give over bundles of money to buy player after player without any concerns for profit margins. Every season there is some cash to but players, appoint a new manager. For me the problem is on the pitch. Players need to take some responsibility as well as the coach to get results. The players are good enough but underperform.

 

[Eskimo]

Just a little note regarding the myth around Levy/ENIC being the worst for manager turnover. I checked the number of full time managers each PL team* have had during the ENIC era. Here's the results, with all the names in the spoiler below.

*note I used the 2014/15 teams to compare it to final table position, the spoiler list is in that order.

1st Woolwich x 1
2nd Man Utd x 3
3rd Everton x 3
4th Liverpool x 5
5th Burnley x 6
6th Man City x 7
7th Stoke x 7
8th Tottenham x 8
9th West Ham x 8
10th Villa x 8
11th Hull x 8
12th West Brom x 9
13th Chelsea x 10
14th Swansea x 10
15th Newcastle x 11
16th Sunderland x 11
17th Leicester x 13
18th QPR x 13
19th Southampton x 14
20th Palace x 14

Spoiler: Data

Chelsea x 10
Ranieri
Mourinho
Grant
Scolari
Hiddink
Ancelotti
AVB
Di Matteo
Benitez
Mourinho

Man City x 7
Royale
Keegan
Pearce
Sven
Highes
Mancini
Pellegrini

Woolwich x 1
Wenger

Man Utd x 3
Ferguson
Moyes
van Gaal

Tottenham x 8
Hoddle
Santini
Jol
Ramos
Redknapp
AVB
Sherwood
Pochettino

Liverpool x 5
Houllier
Benitez
Hodgson
Dalglish
Rodgers

Southampton x 14
Hoddle
Gray
Strachan
Wigley
Sturrock
Redknapp
Burley
Pearson
Poortvilet
Wotte
Pardew
Adkins
Pochettino
Koeman

Swansea x 10
Hollins
Addison
Cusack
Flynn
Jackett
Martinez
Sousa
Rodgers
Laudrup
Monk

Stoke x 7
Gudjon
Cotterill
Kevan
Pulis
Boskamp
Pulis
Hughes

Palace x 14
Smith
Bruce
Francis
Kember
Dowie
Taylor
Warnock
Hart
Burley
Freedman
Holloway
Pulis
Warnock
Pardew

Everton x 3
Smith
Moyes
Martinez

West Ham x 8
Redknapp
Roeder
Pardew
Curbishley
Zola
Grant
Allardyce
Bilic

West Brom x 9
Megson
Robson
Mowbray
Di Matteo
Hodgson
Clarke
Mel
Irvine
Pulis

Leicester x 13
Taylor
Bassett
Adams
Levein
Kelly
Allen
Megson
Holloway
Pearson
Sousa
Eriksson
Pearson
Ranieri

Newcastle x 11
Robson
Souness
Roeder
Allardyce
Keegan
Kinnear
Shearer
Hughton
Pardew
Carver
McClaren

Sunderland x 11
Reid
Wilkinson
McCarthy
Quinn
Keane
Sbragia
Bruce
O'Neill
Di Canio
Poyet
Advocaat

Villa x 8
Gregory
Taylor
O'Leary
O'Neill
Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood

Hull x 8
Little
Molby
Taylor
Parkinson
Brown
Pearson
Barmby
Bruce

Burnley x 6
Ternent
Cotterill
Coyle
Laws
Howe
Dyche

QPR x 13
Francis
Holloway
Waddock
Gregory
De Vanio
Dowie
Sousa
Magilton
Hart
Warnock
Hughes
Redknapp
Ramsey

but many of those with a higher turnover than us have had managers poached. We've taken 2 of Southamptons for starters.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

Do you know what, people said the exact same thing when SOS were wanting Sugar out.

So was Enic seen as a better alternative than Sugar? have they been better?