Mauricio Pochettino

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He's done brilliantly, sustained excellence of a type that would not be reflected just by nicking a cup somewhere along the line.

But the point of football is to win things, and it will be an absolute tragedy if the Poch era ends trophyless. This is the greatest managerial tenure at a club without silverware to show for it in the history of the global game by an absolute country mile (Moyes' Everton weren't nearly as good, Klaus Topmoller did the runner-up treble at Bayer Leverkusen but that was his only full season, we've sustained well longer than Kevin Keegan's Newcastle), it's beyond unprecedented for this sustained quality to go totally unrewarded.

All of which is to say, I've got blue balls over here, and who am I kidding to pretend otherwise?
Very rarely do managers just win things the first go around. Klopp banged his head against that wall with Liverpool for 4 years before breaking through, and I think it's safe to say that Poch has been working under worse circumstances.

With Poch, we've been in contention for cups every year - that's really what you want because if you are in contention you'll get opportunities and the more opportunities the more likely the trophy will come, not once but a few times.

Yes, he prioritizes the league and CL over the Carabao and FA Cup, but I don't think that is the issue, I think it's just a matter of keeping at it.
 
epoch-shaking event some on here seem to think it would be.

Imo winning any trophy is a huge deal for us at this stage. The players need to learn what it means to win, to expect to win. Even Manchester City had to climb up the cups before winning the league and the league before even attempting to win the Champions League.

I would kill for us to win the league Cup, FA Cup, Europa League whatever it would be it would mark huge progress for the club.
 
Very rarely do managers just win things the first go around. Klopp banged his head against that wall with Liverpool for 4 years before breaking through, and I think it's safe to say that Poch has been working under worse circumstances.

With Poch, we've been in contention for cups every year - that's really what you want because if you are in contention you'll get opportunities and the more opportunities the more likely the trophy will come, not once but a few times.

Yes, he prioritizes the league and CL over the Carabao and FA Cup, but I don't think that is the issue, I think it's just a matter of keeping at it.

I think if we keep up like this we're likely to nick a cup as well, but we'd better be ready to take that chance when it arrives and not treat the League Cup, FA Cup, and Europa League if we wind up there as an unworthy distraction. Because the string of luck we had in the CL last season will never happen again, and until the Pep Dynasty wanes, we're miles off from even contending for the PL.
 
Imo winning any trophy is a huge deal for us at this stage. The players need to learn what it means to win, to expect to win. Even Manchester City had to climb up the cups before winning the league and the league before even attempting to win the Champions League.

I would kill for us to win the league Cup, FA Cup, Europa League whatever it would be it would mark huge progress for the club.

Would it though? Really? I don't think so, in fact even if it were it would be spun by some 'as good as it gets' and not automatically lead to bigger and better things. I would be happy if we were to win either domestic cup but only addition to a Top 4 finish not instead of.
 
Would it though? Really? I don't think so, in fact even if it were it would be spun by some 'as good as it gets' and not automatically lead to bigger and better things. I would be happy if we were to win either domestic cup but only addition to a Top 4 finish not instead of.

Articulate what you feel the benefits are of the Top 4 finish, I'm curious.
 
Articulate what you feel the benefits are of the Top 4 finish, I'm curious.
Been over this a million times. Combined with a CL run, the benefits are a Bigger income and profile for the club, which in turnmeans that we can pay better and go for a higher standard of player.

You think N’Dombele considers is if we finish in a uncompetitive 6th place with a league cup win?
 
Been over this a million times. Combined with a CL run, the benefits are a Bigger income and profile for the club, which in turnmeans that we can pay better and go for a higher standard of player.

You think N’Dombele considers is if we finish in a uncompetitive 6th place with a league cup win?

Trouble is, and this is what Woolwich supporters came to understand, is that it's a treadmill to nowhere.

Which is not to say that we should just give up on the league. But we ARE basically giving up on the three other competitions we can win, in exchange for a negligibly higher chance of having a miracle befall us in the two where we have no path to financial parity.

To finish the job in the cups we need to maintain balance and depth in the squad, get the tactics right, and hold our nerve on the big occasions. To be a 100 point club we need a literal billion-pound overhaul of the squad. We might have three guys that are good enough for that level and the manager might not be one of them.

None of this is fair and none of this is healthy for the game, but it's the reality.
 
Whenever this discussion comes around, the participation trophy loons come out full force apologist.

The goal is to win and get into CL. It's not either or. Stop having such a loser's mentality.
 
It’s always a joy winning on the weekend

We’ve done that with Poch more than any manager in my lifetime

This. I don't live football simply in the hope we'll have one glorious day at Wembley to celebrate. It's the week to week grind and hoping more weekends than not I'm happy with my team's result.

If enough good weekends get added up to equal a good to very good season then that's great and really all that we should ask for.

Not sure when some of our fanbase started to become so self-entitled and spoilt but it's pretty fucking tedious. This doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to criticise the manager or team but try and do so in a constructive way and at least be brave enough to offer solutions rather than try and make out you're 'special' and the only one that knows the truth.

In the words of someone's generation...

Bitch, please!

 
We are financially 6th and? Do we have the sixth best team squad in the league? No we don’t - virtually everyone has us to finish 3rd, virtually everyone acknowledges that we have a better team/squad than Chelsea, Woolwich and United. How is that possible using your logic? We don’t have the market capacity to compete with those clubs but we haven’t needed to - we built an elite team via other means just like Liverpool did because they haven’t got the market capacity to compete with those other teams. It just a fatuous argument to make - we could have the Brazil 70 World Cup winning side and you would still be arguing we cannot compete because 6 other clubs have greater revenue. What matters is the players we have and we currently have the 4th most valuable squad in world football according to CIES. But despite having Kane, Ali, Son, Eriksen, Ndombele, Lloris etc we have no right to compete with other sides who have greater revenue ( but in some cases) inferior teams? Seriously get out.




Lack of investment in the squad? Are people still clinging to this after the summer we have had? We spent over £100 on two players and yet we are still getting the he hasn’t been backed narrative. As for history showing CL qualification and silverware - when can we expect it to yield silverware for us, what’s the timeline. If that’s right then why are we the only PL side who has secured consistent CL campaigns not to have won a trophy? How do you account for that?



So Leicester whose budget was a fraction of ours beats us to the title but this is all down to an unfair advantage? Correct me if I wrong but didn’t we play second string sides in the Europa and throw the game against Dortmund. But we were just ‘unlucky’ right?



I love the whole luck argument it is just so wonderfully stupid. We lost to Crystal Palace and Leicester both twice in the FA cup but that was down to just bad luck. Doesn’t it strike you as odd that other top 6 sides keep on getting lucky when it comes to winning things but we do not? Why do you believe we have such an unlucky manager?



Well it’s not just me virtually all the media say the same - you have two of the games most successful managers in PEP and Mourhino state that we can challenge for the league this season. Independent bodies value our squad as the fourth most value but according to you a top 4 finish and an FA Cup or league cup is above us. It’s quite something when you have a supporter who will readily disregard external commentators, will readily run down the quality of our team/ squad simply to elevate our manager. It tell you were your loyalties lie and it isn’t with the club.




It’s a FACT apart for those FACTs which go against this. Liverpool can win a CL despite their limited financial capacity in comparison to the likes of United, City, Bayen, Real and Barca but it’s different with us. Leicester can win a league title when they even trailed us financially ( I take it your criticised Poch for allowing a club with significantly less revenue to beat us) but that’s just one of those things right? A. Madrid beat Real and Barca to a league title so did Dortmund with Bayern but I guess they are just the wrong sort of FACTs right?



Liverpool have a lower net spend average than the likes of Everton and Bournemouth - none of Salah, Mane and Firmino cost big money. And their record signing in Van Dyke was paid for by the sale of their best player Countino. They have just spent no money this summer - ours in comparison dwarfs theres , I take it on that basis you now expect us to finish above them? As for Chelsea - they have spent heavily and none of that has been a success, it was a mediocre side that only had 2 star players ( one of which Kante was being played out of position and was a shadow of his former self). But no let’s ignore that and pretend that their squad was better than ours because we are sixth in the revenues leagues and they are higher. It’s quite something that so many come out with this compete nonsense.
The 1970 Brazil squad, really! Mm........they no pick up injuries quite easily?
 


This is most likely what Poch meant when he said we were going to have a rough summer. He's planning for a generation shift. The old vanguard (the guys approaching or above 30) are going to be phased out over the next couple of windows and replaced with younger, hungrier talent.

A good read that thread.
 
Also, pretty fucking obvious that his patience for the media has run dry. He had a go at a journalist today who asked if he was going to "experiment" before the derby and went on a bit of a rant about "not being a chemist".
 
Is the League Cup really that great of a legacy? Even the FA Cup isn't really all that anymore and whom amongst us gets excited at the thought of our playing at Wembley? I was there when we played Rochdale in from of 20k spectators? Were you?

What's the prize for lifting either? A place in the EL. Oh...goodie. Can't even have a parade if you win the League Cup as it's almost mid-season and a bit shit to hold one a few months later.

The FA Cup is a glorious old cup but emphasis on the 'old'. It would be nice to win but not the epoch-shaking event some on here seem to think it would be.

If anything we have been spoilt by Poch not the opposite and are incredibly lucky to have him. We might have given the job full-time to Tim or appointed De Boer in the summer of 2014 instead of Poch.

Be careful of what you wish for.
Today’s excuse:
Winning the FA and Carabou is shit because Poch hasn’t won them
 
Is the League Cup really that great of a legacy? Even the FA Cup isn't really all that anymore and whom amongst us gets excited at the thought of our playing at Wembley?

And there you have it - it’s shows just how warped the modern game has becomes when not only do you have supporters celebrating trophy less eras they will also readily trash the cup tournaments like the FA cup which has defined this clubs history and tradition. Madness and stupidity and they do this in place of acquiring additional revenue streams.
 
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