Fulham VS Tottenham Hotspur. Carabao Cup. Tuesday 29th August 2023. Craven Cottage 19:45pm KO

[spursmalc]

Top 4 guarantees the funds and CL football to strengthen the squad. Sure maybe Levy doesn't spend it if we have it (he has previous). But he's certainly not going to spend it if we don't have it (in fact he'll use that as the excuse).

This season without europe is good to go all out in the league with this thin squad. If we go all out in domestic cups we undo that advantage.

Again it comes down to direction. Ange isn't concerned about the "when did Spurs last win a trophy" banter and neither am I - cos we're building something bigger. The time to go all out on trophies was with Jose and Conte and that failed.

We clearly not going to agree but this is the first year without Europe for years and as most of the first teamers did not play in the League cup and possibly not play in the F A Cup they will only play 38 matches maximum which is lower than previous years with CL.
This squad is not thinner than last season and yes we have lost Kane but he is the only significant loss. He wanted a trophy and may not have left had he got one. What do you mean go all out for the League? We are not going to win it and as I said Top 4 again is just money. This side is not a patch on the Poch side at it's peak but could win a cup.
I am of an age that has seen many cup victories and they are my best memories. I no longer have any chance of seeing a Cup Final live as I have done in the past but a win will give me greater pleasure than top 4 which is far from certain anyway.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

We clearly not going to agree but this is the first year without Europe for years and as most of the first teamers did not play in the League cup and possibly not play in the F A Cup they will only play 38 matches maximum which is lower than previous years with CL.
This squad is not thinner than last season and yes we have lost Kane but he is the only significant loss. He wanted a trophy and may not have left had he got one. What do you mean go all out for the League? We are not going to win it and as I said Top 4 again is just money. This side is not a patch on the Poch side at it's peak but could win a cup.
I am of an age that has seen many cup victories and they are my best memories. I no longer have any chance of seeing a Cup Final live as I have done in the past but a win will give me greater pleasure than top 4 which is far from certain anyway.

The squad is thin in terms of the football we want to play. If Romero or VDV gets injured, we only have CBs who can play in a lower defensive line or a back 3. If Maddison gets injured, we lose the creative spark in midfield. If Son gets injured, we lose our only reliable striker. If we lose a handful of players, the Postecoglou system goes out the window.

My hope for the season is that we finish above Woolwich and play some great football along the way. If we make Europe, we can hopefully bring some more players in to strengthen the squad.

COYS

 

[spursmalc]

The squad is thin in terms of the football we want to play. If Romero or VDV gets injured, we only have CBs who can play in a lower defensive line or a back 3. If Maddison gets injured, we lose the creative spark in midfield. If Son gets injured, we lose our only reliable striker. If we lose a handful of players, the Postecoglou system goes out the window.

My hope for the season is that we finish above Woolwich and play some great football along the way. If we make Europe, we can hopefully bring some more players in to strengthen the squad.

COYS

What poor hopes.

 

[Billy Bob mate]

We clearly not going to agree but this is the first year without Europe for years and as most of the first teamers did not play in the League cup and possibly not play in the F A Cup they will only play 38 matches maximum which is lower than previous years with CL.
This squad is not thinner than last season and yes we have lost Kane but he is the only significant loss. He wanted a trophy and may not have left had he got one. What do you mean go all out for the League? We are not going to win it and as I said Top 4 again is just money. This side is not a patch on the Poch side at it's peak but could win a cup.
I am of an age that has seen many cup victories and they are my best memories. I no longer have any chance of seeing a Cup Final live as I have done in the past but a win will give me greater pleasure than top 4 which is far from certain anyway.

Just a little point...Kane wouldn't have stayed with a league cup win. Doubt he would have stayed with an FA Cup win.

He wanted league titles and Champions League.

 

[spursmalc]

Just a little point...Kane wouldn't have stayed with a league cup win. Doubt he would have stayed with an FA Cup win.

He wanted league titles and Champions League.

So why was he prepared to go to MU?

 

[Yid_1984]

So why was he prepared to go to MU?

££££

 

[Billy Bob mate]

So why was he prepared to go to MU?

Ah you are one of those that believes any old rumour over what the player himself actually says.

 

[spursmalc]

Ah you are one of those that believes any old rumour over what the player himself actually says.

I read that Kane was prepared to wait a year for MU until they bought a new striker. Not sure where it came from but he never said he did not want to go there. My point is that MU are not going to win the PL or Cl either although they have won lesser tournaments and could do so in the future.

 

[Big Ange]

I read that Kane was prepared to wait a year for MU until they bought a new striker. Not sure where it came from but he never said he did not want to go there. My point is that MU are not going to win the PL or Cl either although they have won lesser tournaments and could do so in the future.

It is insane to think Kane would go to MU just for FA cups and Carabaos. He knows that with the money Utd spend they are always a good manager/transfer window away from challenging for the league.

 

[Big Ange]

We clearly not going to agree but this is the first year without Europe for years and as most of the first teamers did not play in the League cup and possibly not play in the F A Cup they will only play 38 matches maximum which is lower than previous years with CL.
This squad is not thinner than last season and yes we have lost Kane but he is the only significant loss. He wanted a trophy and may not have left had he got one. What do you mean go all out for the League? We are not going to win it and as I said Top 4 again is just money. This side is not a patch on the Poch side at it's peak but could win a cup.
I am of an age that has seen many cup victories and they are my best memories. I no longer have any chance of seeing a Cup Final live as I have done in the past but a win will give me greater pleasure than top 4 which is far from certain anyway.

I understand you want cups, and so do many other fans. What % of fans feel the same way I don't know.

But what we do know is that the club have communicated the direction (a rare occurrence). We're a young thin squad with a manager who wants to build a dynasty. This is dependent on consistency in the league - this is not optional.

It's not logical to want this sort of manager + system and then give into short-term desires which won't produce anything tangible to move forward with (domestic cup memories are great and amazing but it takes the money and kudos from winning big titles to put together great squads).

Why be average in several areas? Knock out competitions are unpredictable and we're the 6th richest team who finished 8th last year - it's not wise to bank on them.

 

[Matt1882]

Everyone's reaction to Madders knee injury post NLD is surely proof that we absolutely should not have gone stronger in the Carabao game.

An injury to JUST ONE of Vic, Romero, VdV, Udogie, Biss, Madders, Son and we simply cannot play the same way (no exaggeration or hyperbole). That's 7 players who it would be insane to risk.

A) Didn't need to make 9 changes
B) Payers can get injured at any moment so no reason not to use them in a smaller cup game

So why was he prepared to go to MU?

I don't personally think he was prepared to go there. I think it was all media bumph because they all collectively hold Man Uniteds dick.

IF he went to Man United, with one league cup in about 7 years, then he would be have been as dumb as fuck. I just can't believe anyone outside of their own fan base and bias pundits, actually thinks a player desperate for silverware would pick United.

 

[Big Ange]

A) Didn't need to make 9 changes
B) Payers can get injured at any moment so no reason not to use them in a smaller cup game



I don't personally think he was prepared to go there. I think it was all media bumph because they all collectively hold Man Uniteds dick.

IF he went to Man United, with one league cup in about 7 years, then he would be have been as dumb as fuck. I just can't believe anyone outside of their own fan base and bias pundits, actually thinks a player desperate for silverware would pick United.

a - Okay so how many changes - what was your starting XI? & who would you bring on if we're losing/drawing?

b - Doesn't work like that, it's about likelihood. You can get struck by lightening but you still wear a seatbelt.

Clubs like chavs and utd because of how they spend can go from midtable crisis to being right up there.

 

[spursmalc]

I understand you want cups, and so do many other fans. What % of fans feel the same way I don't know.

But what we do know is that the club have communicated the direction (a rare occurrence). We're a young thin squad with a manager who wants to build a dynasty. This is dependent on consistency in the league - this is not optional.

It's not logical to want this sort of manager + system and then give into short-term desires which won't produce anything tangible to move forward with (domestic cup memories are great and amazing but it takes the money and kudos from winning big titles to put together great squads).

Why be average in several areas? Knock out competitions are unpredictable and we're the 6th richest team who finished 8th last year - it's not wise to bank on the

Levy is very Money orientated and so it is no surprise that he has indicated that the League takes preference. That is part of the criticism the anti Levy/ENIC guys on here hate him so much as he does things for money rather that football. MU are proof that money alone does not buy you success.
It was once claimed we could not attract top players as we were not in the CL but we have been in the CL many times now but still cannot the very best.
MC are currently out on their own and the other clubs are only going to win domestic cups or lesser European cups. Sky Bet have MC at2/5 to win it again. However they are out of the League Cup and if we had taken it seriously then we could have broken our trophy drought.
Ange says he wants to win every match although he was very naïve about our 2nd string players if he thought we would beat Fulham away with 9 changes.
You keep mentioning our thin squad but apart from Kane leaving we have a stronger squad than last season. When we are in the CL our first team have to cope with 2 matches a week for much of the season and it is not too much to ask them to play a midweek match early in the season. Winning tournaments breeds confidence and will enhance the team in future.
Glory before Money.

 

[Big Ange]

Levy is very Money orientated and so it is no surprise that he has indicated that the League takes preference. That is part of the criticism the anti Levy/ENIC guys on here hate him so much as he does things for money rather that football. MU are proof that money alone does not buy you success.
It was once claimed we could not attract top players as we were not in the CL but we have been in the CL many times now but still cannot the very best.
MC are currently out on their own and the other clubs are only going to win domestic cups or lesser European cups. Sky Bet have MC at2/5 to win it again. However they are out of the League Cup and if we had taken it seriously then we could have broken our trophy drought.
Ange says he wants to win every match although he was very naïve about our 2nd string players if he thought we would beat Fulham away with 9 changes.
You keep mentioning our thin squad but apart from Kane leaving we have a stronger squad than last season. When we are in the CL our first team have to cope with 2 matches a week for much of the season and it is not too much to ask them to play a midweek match early in the season. Winning tournaments breeds confidence and will enhance the team in future.
Glory before Money.

Well it seems your position is that since Levy doesn't invest (CL or not) we should go for the cups since the league and CL are unrealistic. I can respect that view.
As you say, we got CL football not long ago and then became the first team in history to not buy a player for a year or whatever, inexcusable behaviour that set the club back for years. Just to be clear - I don't like Levy as a chairman or a human.

Just like we can point to getting CL football and not spending as proof that we may not invest regardless, we can point to the previous last few cups we've won as proof that it doesn't mean we'll kick on and enhance the team in future.

My point is that it's pointless either way to guess what will happen if we achieve X - but it makes sense to go with the more likely option. CL money and high league finishes lead to more money and exposure than domestic cups, Levy is more likely to spend based on if he has bigger wallet, not based on bigger vibes i.e. Carabao Cup glory.

Our manager/choice of direction makes it daft to go all in for cups. Knock out football is risky and unpredictable - it suits defensive counter attacking managers. We tried it with Conte and Jose (which was always a risk cos we're using chequebook managers who are used to having way more resources than rivals). We moved on from that and went back to a "project" guy. Possession football like this suits league football plain and simple. This type of project needs time, patience and investment.

 

[Matt1882]

a - Okay so how many changes - what was your starting XI? & who would you bring on if we're losing/drawing?

b - Doesn't work like that, it's about likelihood. You can get struck by lightening but you still wear a seatbelt.

Clubs like chavs and utd because of how they spend can go from midtable crisis to being right up there.

If you actually want to progress, you never make more than 4 or 5 changes to a settled 11.
It was a terrible starting 11. Every last one of us could see exactly what was coming. In the end, we had to bring on Son, Sarr, Maddison and Kulu just t try to salvage the game, so we achieved very little by not starting them anyway.

I'd like to say I wouldn't make 9 changes unless it was against a lower league team, but I wouldn't trust that starting 11 to beat a lower league team either.

There's zero point "resting" a player to reduce injury, get knocked out of your only reasonable chance at a cup, and then that player get a knock in the 1st minute of the next league game putting them out of action for half a season. Or as with Perisic, it could even happen between games.

Your namesake may be doing a good job of making out as if it didn't matter, but I'd bet a nut that behind closed doors, he was fucking fuming we went out and worse, we went out playing absolutely shit.

 

[Big Ange]

If you actually want to progress, you never make more than 4 or 5 changes to a settled 11.
It was a terrible starting 11. Every last one of us could see exactly what was coming. In the end, we had to bring on Son, Sarr, Maddison and Kulu just t try to salvage the game, so we achieved very little by not starting them anyway.

I'd like to say I wouldn't make 9 changes unless it was against a lower league team, but I wouldn't trust that starting 11 to beat a lower league team either.

There's zero point "resting" a player to reduce injury, get knocked out of your only reasonable chance at a cup, and then that player get a knock in the 1st minute of the next league game putting them out of action for half a season. Or as with Perisic, it could even happen between games.

Your namesake may be doing a good job of making out as if it didn't matter, but I'd bet a nut that behind closed doors, he was fucking fuming we went out and worse, we went out playing absolutely shit.

You didn't answer the question though, which players/XI would you start?

We achieved less mileage on the legs of those players who were brought on. You know the same Son and Maddison who started the NLD injured and were both taken off as precautions - or in Madders case a knee problem.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge it's about percentages. It's not black and white. The more you play, the higher the risk of injury (of course playing too little can be dangerous too if we're talking acute chronic workload spikes but that's not an issue here).

 

[Matt1882]

You didn't answer the question though, which players/XI would you start?

We achieved less mileage on the legs of those players who were brought on. You know the same Son and Maddison who started the NLD injured and were both taken off as precautions - or in Madders case a knee problem.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge it's about percentages. It's not black and white. The more you play, the higher the risk of injury (of course playing too little can be dangerous too if we're talking acute chronic workload spikes but that's not an issue here).

I would have started Vicario, Romero, VdV, Bissouma, Sarr and Maddison over those that actually started at least
Like I said, I wouldn't ever make more than 4 or 5 changes to a starting 11 in one go. I would rather give any one player a rest from starting in random games all season than drop everyone for one game.

 

[Big Ange]

I would have started Vicario, Romero, VdV, Bissouma, Sarr and Maddison over those that actually started at least
Like I said, I wouldn't ever make more than 4 or 5 changes to a starting 11 in one go. I would rather give any one player a rest from starting in random games all season than drop everyone for one game.

If Vic gets injured we're fucked. Forster dives like my gran. Neither Lloris or Forster can play out from the back.

If one of Romero or VdV get injured we're fucked. It's either a kid from the youth teams or Dier/Davies who cannot play out from the back or keep a high line.

If Madder's gets injured we have no #10.

The literally affects how we play in every game.

This is insane and your logic of "injuries can happen at any time so just play them" is irrational as I've explained above.

 

[Matt1882]

If Vic gets injured we're fucked. Forster dives like my gran. Neither Lloris or Forster can play out from the back.

If one of Romero or VdV get injured we're fucked. It's either a kid from the youth teams or Dier/Davies who cannot play out from the back or keep a high line.

If Madder's gets injured we have no #10.

The literally affects how we play in every game.

This is insane and your logic of "injuries can happen at any time so just play them" is irrational as I've explained above.

They can all get injured at absolutely any moment.
It's a risk every moment a player is basically alive.

It's just fucking dumb to drop them, throw and throw a game.

You're on your own here. Even Ange himself alluded to playing the dross because it was the last game before the transfer window closed.

 

[Spursindevon]

Interesting how this flipped into a Kane thread, he has gone, end of discussion.

Regarding the actual thread, the game proved our squad is about as strong as a water biscuit dunked into a cup of tea