Ange Postecoglou

[The Dazzler99]

Because like I said the pressures and expectations are entirely different, there's a general difference between players/managers/people at the best jobs/companies because they have the mentality and skill to carry out their job consistently at the highest level, the players/managers/people who are at lower clubs/jobs don't have that pressure and expectation.

That's what seperate the best human beings by the way, comes down to mentality and will, marry that with the job in itself and your actual day job becomes 100x harder, anyone worth their salt will tell you that, it's a life rule.

You 100% get it! Ange said it himself. The main difference in being able to play any sport or regular job at a high level is mentality! These guys at the top table in any industry have an ability to execute consistently and just shrug off any disappointment that comes their way. It stops the rest of us, but these guys just suck it up and move on!

 

[Shadydan]

You 100% get it! Ange said it himself. The main difference in being able to play any sport or regular job at a high level is mentality! These guys at the top table in any industry have an ability to execute consistently and just shrug off any disappointment that comes their way. It stops the rest of us, but these guys just suck it up and move on!

Indeed, folk just think you can copy and paste managers/players from one league to the other and expect the same results, that's not how it works.

 

[Richard Arlison]

You 100% get it! Ange said it himself. The main difference in being able to play any sport or regular job at a high level is mentality! These guys at the top table in any industry have an ability to execute consistently and just shrug off any disappointment that comes their way. It stops the rest of us, but these guys just suck it up and move on!

And they can only do the in the premier league?

In Japan they would all just crumble under the pressure?

Here’s another angle, you work pro in a smaller league you still get fired if you don’t win but you get paid so much less so you don’t have a financial cushion if you do get fired. If you don’t win your kids don’t eat and you probably need to move your family to ANOTHER new country. Now your wife wants to leave you as well.

Now that IS pressure mate

 

[nasm_f]

Are we all pretending that a Japanese coach that none of us had heard of didn’t completely outfox several of Europe’s biggest names during the last World Cup?

Several is doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate, surely that means the Costa Rica manager who outfoxed him should be the hot name linked to all of the big jobs now?

 

[Richard Arlison]

Several is doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate, surely that means the Costa Rica manager who outfoxed him should be the hot name linked to all of the big jobs now?

He’s possibly an excellent coach as well.

Do you think there are some magic tactics that only European coaches know and that’s why they are better?

Or he can’t be an elite coach because he’s Costa Rican?

 

[nicoclaesen]

It's called reality mate, this is how life has been since the beginning of time.

No-one's gonna take you seriously if you're testing yourself against the best and work with/amongst the best otherwise you can't call yourself the best or on par, that's an illogical argument.

Is it.

Why do you keep mentioning the Champ as if that's what was being spoken about?

The claim was that coaches in the J-League and the A-League are just as good as Prem managers, defend that claim instead of mentioning Gary O'Neil who was a Prem player and assistant before getting the Bournemouth job.

my point is that there are coaches and managers that aren’t coaching and managing in their respective top leagues but are good enough to do it.

 

[nasm_f]

I don't think at any point have I said only Europeans can be elite coaches, what I have said is you cannot claim that a coach who has only ever coached in Australia, Japan & Scotland is as good as the coaches in the Prem unless he proves it by being successful at the Prem level or in other elite leagues around Europe.

The Japanese manager winning games against Germany & Spain doesn't mean he's a shoo in to be an elite coach at the elite level, which is in Europe whether you like it or not.

I see people rubbishing the likes of Nuno, Marco Silva etc earlier in this thread but these are guys that have proven they can manage at the elite level both here and in the other countries.

And maybe, just maybe it's because the likes of Nuno & Conte don't speak English fluently and can't drop the occasional "look mate" that they don't seem to be rated here, see how easy it is to flip that nonsense narrative you're trying to push.

 

[nicoclaesen]

Are we all pretending that a Japanese coach that none of us had heard of didn’t completely outfox several of Europe’s biggest names during the last World Cup?

No you can’t say that mate. It’s an illogical argument. He’s obviously not got a clue because he’s Japanese and never managed in the elite premier league and been successful

 

[Kekerinho]

Are we all pretending that a Japanese coach that none of us had heard of didn’t completely outfox several of Europe’s biggest names during the last World Cup?

Right, so Gary O’Neil, Eddie Howe and Marco Silva are better managers than Postecoglou.

 

[TOZ]

I guarantee you most people on here and frankly most sensible people think the level of coaching is higher in the Premier League than it is in the A League.

It’s basic common sense. Due to resources the Prem takes its pick from the elite of Europe, where the vast majority of people with pro licenses exist.

It would be a fucking miracle if it WASN’T lower ffs.

Fuck knows how to judge coaches from lower or different leagues. I tend to think it's a lot of politics and bias.
It's that or else I'd have to believe that Gareth Southgate or Gary O'Neil or Dyche are in 0.001% worldwide geniuses, crème de la crème of tactical analysis worldwide.
Ange has got a lot to help him succeed here as an 'exotic' coach, no language barrier so start with. Could go on and on.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Right, so Gary O’Neil, Eddie Howe and Marco Silva are better managers than Postecoglou.

They are certainly his peers. Same as the coaches he played against in other leagues

 

[TOZ]

Let's say Ange is an 19th century painter that just arrived to Paris. He'll have to make it here to really make it. But it doesn't mean that noone in the world outside France can hold a fucking brush

 

[Richard Arlison]

No you can’t say that mate. It’s an illogical argument. He’s obviously not got a clue because he’s Japanese and never managed in the elite premier league and been successful

Yeah you’re right mate. Sorry I was being stupid and illogical again

 

[TOZ]

Let's say Ange is an 19th century painter that just arrived to Paris. He'll have to make it here to really make it. But it doesn't mean that noone in the world outside France can hold a fucking brush

If guys from India knew anything about music they would be Taylor Swift

 

[nicoclaesen]

Let's say Ange is an 19th century painter that just arrived to Paris. He'll have to make it here to really make it. But it doesn't mean that noone in the world outside France can hold a fucking brush

big Ange duking about Paris with his easel over his shoulder and a bag of brushes and paints!!!

 

[Deuterz]

Let's say Ange is an 19th century painter that just arrived to Paris. He'll have to make it here to really make it. But it doesn't mean that noone in the world outside France can hold a fucking brush

Uh but nobody is saying that. Obviously there are great coaches outside of Europe. But the resources here, the coaching available, the volume of managers means that the average level of coaching is higher.

The only claim is this: being a winner in the A League does not mean you’re a winner in the Premier League by default. You have to prove you can do it at a higher pressure level amongst a much higher concentration of top level coaches.

This isn’t controversial. I am genuinely shocked anyone would ever disagree with it. It’s 1+1=2 level of irrefutably true logic. Ange could be Pep level. We don’t know. The only disagreeable bit is that he’s Pep level because of winning in Japan and Australia.

 

[Deuterz]

Indeed, folk just think you can copy and paste managers/players from one league to the other and expect the same results, that's not how it works.

I honestly think some people are just on the wind up, that’s how unbelievably dumb and nonsensical some of the arguments being made are.

It’s why they’re resorting to mocking fake claims like ‘he’s from Japan so must be shit’ rather than actually countering the obviously true actual points that have been made.

Anyone that thinks the A League has just as many good coaches in it as the Premier League and that any of the A League coaches could step up seeamlessly to the Premier League should seek help.

 

[Shadydan]

I honestly think some people are just on the wind up, that’s how unbelievably dumb and nonsensical some of the arguments being made are.

It’s why they’re resorting to mocking fake claims like ‘he’s from Japan so must be shit’ rather than actually countering the obviously true actual points that have been made.

Anyone that thinks the A League has just as many good coaches in it in the Premier League and that any of the A League coaches could step up seemingly to the Premier League should seek help.

Two week break innit, people are bored.

 

[Maureen]

Fair bit of overreaction as expected on here.

I think a lot of people started to think of Ange as the messiah after a really good start. This is the highest level of football he has ever managed at and the “we’ll score more than them” approach isn’t going to work with the forwards we have in our squad.

If you were ranking attacks in the Premier League, ours is a long way off Top 4.

Midfield? The same.

Defence? Romero and VDV are top centre backs, Udogie and Porro are good young wingbacks. The issue is that the high line exposes them constantly and when you’ve got attacking wingbacks expected to also play fullback, shit is bound to hit the fan.

The issue that Ange hasn’t addressed is that our forwards and midfield just aren’t good enough to create and score chances consistently against Premier League level defences. Yet he is pretending that it is, we’re playing high intensity football with a high line to create pressure in the final third, despite not being good enough which leaves us exposed at the back. We’re relying on our biggest weakness (our attack) to win us games.

Doesn’t take a genius to see similarities between what’s happening here and what happened under Conte and Mourinho. Back when we had those two, we had the best striker in the league and Son in his prime. played ultra defensive, counter attacking football despite having a dogshit defence. Now we’re playing ultra attacking football despite having a dogshit attack.

It’s just not going to work under Ange in the Premier League unless he’s given a top class front three and DM. You can only teach donkeys to pull carts. Levy isn’t going to give him those players. So Top 4 and a cup run is the best we can hope for.

Accept that and results like today are easier to swallow.

Yes he needs top quality players like all top managers do yet he still has to have some input as a coach surely? He can’t simply just say right everyone just run into the oppo half and leave VDV on the half way line. As that seems to be about the tactic we have atm. Where is the patterns of play, passing patterns like long and short, player movement? To say he the attack is dog shite then the blame lies with him as he wanted us to spend £50M on BJ and get timo on loan. Add to that £60M on Rich and £40M odd on kulu who Ange sanctioned then he has to take some responsibility. Look at the toon front 3 on Saturday. I’m sure we’d all take them all. Barns and Gordon cost less than BJ and Kulu and isak was approx the same amount as Richi. We have spent and recruited badly in the attack some of which is on Ange’s head.

 

[Maureen]

Look mate, it’s not even about the results, although football has become a results oriented business in the last few years. It’s the football we play, which has been fucking shit in 2024 (and in late 2023, but there’s the excuse of injuries and all that) and has shown no progress. We are constantly split open in defence, even by lesser sides, and the most worrying aspect is that we aren’t able to put the opposition’s goal in real danger except for a few bursts. We have possession because teams are happy to let us have the ball and we do nothing with it. We pass it sideways like it’s fucking handball and then some player runs into 3-4 defenders and there’s no way that player would dribble through them and we lose the ball. Talking about rebuild, what rebuild? We have a new backline, we have CMs who have been here for only a couple of years (bar Hojbjerg), and upfront our wingers and strikers are also relatively new (with Son being the exception). So tell me what rebuild we’re talking about cause I don’t get it. We’ve been rebuilding over the last couple of seasons since Paratici joined, haven’t we? And we’ll continue for a couple more transfer windows or whatever, then the players brought in would play same shit because it’s the system at fault, and people would continue coping “but they need to learn the system, give them a season at least” and we’d find ourselves in the same position in a couple of years.

Spot on! We could have 3 x messi but if the oppo just block the middle bar a few miracle runs and shots we would still be exposed at the back bcos of the system. You could have prime Rio and vidic and they’d be done. Vidic would have dbl digit reds by now. The stupid inverted FBs is the problem. I watched dippers yday and both FBs offer wide passing options. We don’t !