Ange Postecoglou

[Richard Arlison]

But why is that hard to understand? The game is the game. Guys managing and coaching at lower levels still know the game. It’s getting the opportunity that is the hard bit. We bring in loads of foreign coaches where there is plenty here that have great ideas and have to get that break. Is Nuno better than say Kieran McKenna or Russell Martin to name just two just because he’s foreign?

BINGO

But you are wasting your time. They don’t want to learn a new way to understand things.

I guarantee if any of them ever finds themselves in a position to have a conversation with an elite level coach, and they asked this question, they’d get the same answer as we are trying to tell them… and they’d still think they are right.

 

[Shadydan]

But why is that hard to understand? The game is the game. Guys managing and coaching at lower levels still know the game. It’s getting the opportunity that is the hard bit. We bring in loads of foreign coaches where there is plenty here that have great ideas and have to get that break. Is Nuno better than say Kieran McKenna or Russell Martin to name just two just because he’s foreign?

Because like I said the pressures and expectations are entirely different, there's a general difference between players/managers/people at the best jobs/companies because they have the mentality and skill to carry out their job consistently at the highest level, the players/managers/people who are at lower clubs/jobs don't have that pressure and expectation.

That's what seperate the best human beings by the way, comes down to mentality and will, marry that with the job in itself and your actual day job becomes 100x harder, anyone worth their salt will tell you that, it's a life rule.

 

[Kekerinho]

But why is that hard to understand? The game is the game. Guys managing and coaching at lower levels still know the game. It’s getting the opportunity that is the hard bit. We bring in loads of foreign coaches where there is plenty here that have great ideas and have to get that break. Is Nuno better than say Kieran McKenna or Russell Martin to name just two just because he’s foreign?

So you’re saying if I become manager of Accrington Stanley, I may be as good as Guardiola or Klopp, just that I need the opportunity to prove it?

 

[nicoclaesen]

Because like I said the pressures and expectations are entirely different, there's a general difference between players/managers/people at the best jobs/companies because they have the mentality and skill to carry out their job consistently at the highest level, the players/managers/people who are at lower clubs/jobs don't have that pressure and expectation.

That's what seperate the best human beings by the way, comes down to mentality and will, marry that with the job in itself and your actual day job becomes 100x harder, anyone worth their salt will tell you that, it's a life rule.

Yes they have a worse pressure mate. If things don’t go well at that level then it’s difficult to get jobs. They also have to worry financially and what they will do if they can’t be in football. The guys at the top have different pressures but say Ten Haag loses his job today he still walks into another job somewhere paying him millions. The pressure is different but the game isn’t. The training sessions will be similar even down the leagues because all the guys coaching and managing have played the game. The fundamentals of it remain the same and you still win and lose games the same way. The higher up you go everything is ability,it’s quicker ,more clinical,less mistakes and players take info on and keep it. That’s the difference the higher you go.

 

[Shadydan]

Yes they have a worse pressure mate. If things don’t go well at that level then it’s difficult to get jobs. They also have to worry financially and what they will do if they can’t be in football. The guys at the top have different pressures but say Ten Haag loses his job today he still walks into another job somewhere paying him millions. The pressure is different but the game isn’t. The training sessions will be similar even down the leagues because all the guys coaching and managing have played the game. The fundamentals of it remain the same and you still win and lose games the same way. The higher up you go everything is ability,it’s quicker ,more clinical,less mistakes and players take info on and keep it. That’s the difference the higher you go.

You don't get it, I really can't be arsed man

 

[nicoclaesen]

So you’re saying if I become manager of Accrington Stanley, I may be as good as Guardiola or Klopp, just that I need the opportunity to prove it?

No, I’m not saying every coach can coach or manage at the highest level but there’s so many guys who could but will never in a million years get that chance.
I bet there’s so many people wouldn’t think Gary O’Neill at Wolves would be so clued up and knowledgeable until they heard him on sky sports that night discussing tactics. There’s lots of Gary O’Neill’s out there.
And I’m not saying they are going to be in Pep’s or Klopp’s level but guys out their even in the championship will be as good as Silva,Nuno,Kompany,Moyes,Dyche,Howe,Edwards and Wilder. They are premier league managers but you are not telling me guys down a league couldn’t do what they do.

 

[nicoclaesen]

You don't get it, I really can't be arsed man

Disagree but you are stuck in this big premier league everybody is elite world which just isn’t the case.

 

[nicoclaesen]

So you’re saying if I become manager of Accrington Stanley, I may be as good as Guardiola or Klopp, just that I need the opportunity to prove it?

But you’re not a football manager for fuck sake
If Mourinho took the Accrington Stanley job would he be classed as premier league manager or a lower league manager. Just because someone isn’t in the premier league doesn’t mean they couldn’t do the job. There’s only 20 jobs in it.

 

[Shadydan]

Disagree but you are stuck in this big premier league everybody is elite world which just isn’t the case.

It's called reality mate, this is how life has been since the beginning of time.

No-one's gonna take you seriously if you're testing yourself against the best and work with/amongst the best otherwise you can't call yourself the best or on par, that's an illogical argument.

 

[nasm_f]

No, I’m not saying every coach can coach or manage at the highest level but there’s so many guys who could but will never in a million years get that chance.
I bet there’s so many people wouldn’t think Gary O’Neill at Wolves would be so clued up and knowledgeable until they heard him on sky sports that night discussing tactics. There’s lots of Gary O’Neill’s out there.
And I’m not saying they are going to be in Pep’s or Klopp’s level but guys out their even in the championship will be as good as Silva,Nuno,Kompany,Moyes,Dyche,Howe,Edwards and Wilder. They are premier league managers but you are not telling me guys down a league couldn’t do what they do.

Why do you keep mentioning the Champ as if that's what was being spoken about?

The claim was that coaches in the J-League and the A-League are just as good as Prem managers, defend that claim instead of mentioning Gary O'Neil who was a Prem player and assistant before getting the Bournemouth job.

 

[BernardMatthews]

 

[Richard Arlison]

Why do you keep mentioning the Champ as if that's what was being spoken about?

The claim was that coaches in the J-League and the A-League are just as good as Prem managers, defend that claim instead of mentioning Gary O'Neil who was a Prem player and assistant before getting the Bournemouth job.

Nope that wasn’t the claim

The truth is that the coaches in the J League aren’t less able to coach or tactically inferior BECAUSE they are in the J League.

Same way championship coaches aren’t worse or less tactically astute BECAUSE they are in the championship.

It’s often just about opportunity and contacts. But you are either too simple to understand or too stubborn to try.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Are we all pretending that a Japanese coach that none of us had heard of didn’t completely outfox several of Europe’s biggest names during the last World Cup?

 

[Richard Arlison]

It's called reality mate, this is how life has been since the beginning of time.

No-one's gonna take you seriously if you're testing yourself against the best and work with/amongst the best otherwise you can't call yourself the best or on par, that's an illogical argument.

You are confusing level of league with level of coaching or tactical acumen.

Not all the best coaches or smartest tacticians are in Europe. That’s just a stone cold fact that every single premier league manager you asked would agree with

 

[Shadydan]

You are confusing level of league with level of coaching or tactical acumen.

Not all the best coaches or smartest tacticians are in Europe. That’s just a stone cold fact that every single premier league manager you asked would agree with

The only way to find this out is for those coached to test themselves against their counterparts.

You can be the best coach with a fantastic outlook and philosophy but it's never going to be proved unless you're managing amongst the best - don't argue with me, that's general logic.

Christ, what a pointless argument.

 

[Richard Arlison]

The only way to find this out is for those coached to test themselves against their counterparts.

You can be the best coach with a fantastic outlook and philosophy but it's never going to be proved unless you're managing amongst the best - don't argue with me, that's general logic.

Christ, what a pointless argument.

You are just assuming that the best are only in Europe because premier league money

 

[Richard Arlison]

Are we all pretending that a Japanese coach that none of us had heard of didn’t completely outfox several of Europe’s biggest names during the last World Cup?

No takers?

Did that Japanese coach prove himself against the Best Shadydan ?

 

[Shadydan]

You are just assuming that the best are only in Europe because premier league money

I'm making a general point about any league, if you're going from the A League to the Bundesliga for example I will happily make the same case.

And onto that point regardless, the best managers tend to find themselves over here anyway, people generally follow the money.

Don't understand how this relates to Ange anyway, he's made his way to the Prem and seemingly he's testing himself at this level and is so far successful given the circumstances.

 

[Shadydan]

No takers?

Did that Japanese coach prove himself against the Best Shadydan ?

Exceptions don't prove the rule.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Exceptions don't prove the rule.

They do in this argument.

Because the point being made is that he wasn’t a worse coach or a weaker tactician BECAUSE he’s Japanese and never got a chance to show how good he is in a big European league.

He couldn’t hire himself in Europe could he?

Also stands to reason that his environment is where he developed his tactical acumen so there are likely plenty of other coaches in his environment that he needed to be that good tactically to beat them.