West Ham v Tottenham Hotspur | Premier League | Tues 2nd April | 8:15pm

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How do you counter attack when your opponent isn't attacking in the first place.

End of the day, it doesn't matter which style you play as long as you play it well and that doesn't happen over night. Can't just stay addicted to the hit of new manager bounce everytime with the system changing and the football feeling fresh and new. We have to stick to something and fucking master it.

Took Klopp 3 years to win a trophy and they were comparably inconsistent in his first season or 2.

There are plenty of opportunities for us to counter teams. The only reason they have 10 men behind the ball is we constantly allow that to happen by not countering.
We win the ball in our 3rd of the pitch, with space to attack, but we don't do it. We take too many passes. Often sideways or backwards. All it takes is 15 seconds or so and the opportunity is gone. Any well drilled side will have got back and into shape and we ain't getting anywhere.

I'd love to see the average number of passes we make before we actually score. I bet it's lower than most think.
 
I'm surprised we haven't learnt most of that already.

Do you think we need a £100m midfielder to control games?

It's just that Ange has already stated that he'd rather spend £100m on two £50m players.
No, I'm not a "throw money at it" type of person.
We need decent scouting. Some of the best midfielders we've had in the 21st century haven't been big money signings. Carrick, Davids. Demebele. Wanyama. Modric. Players who were consistent, intelligent and actually made things happen.
When did we sell Dembele, 2019? 5.5 years without a decent CM.
 
Well we play them in a few weeks anyway so we have their destiny in our hands regardless, win that and we don't need to worry about what we do against others.
Not unless we beat Liverpool and City as well!!

Honestly honestly... If we beat the Arse at home, I'd HAPPILY take losing against one of Liverpool or City .. if it means they win the league ahead of those cunts... I'm too old to take all that shit now!

We just have to beat Forest, Newcastle, Chelsea, Burnley, Sheffield United to make sure it doesn't affect OUR position!!

Easy, huh?
 
Playing vs low blocks has gotta stop being an excuse. Good teams find a way. Period.

And most of the time we do?

Just like good teams. And just like good teams, every now and then, you drop points against them.

We've lost 7 league games this season, id say just 2 of those were low blocks (Wolves and West Ham at home)

We've drawn 6. I'd say 2 of those were against low blocks (West Ham and Brentford away).

However we've beaten plenty of low block teams. Sheffield United, Luton (x2), Palace (x2), Forest and Brentford.

Which mean from the 27 points dropped this season, just 8 points were because we found it tough to break through a low block and looked void of ideas.

Man City just as an example, have dropped 7 points against teams set up in a low block this season...

Woolwich... 8 points dropped.

This isn't an excuse. It's football. Top teams for the most part will find a way but variables and percentage tell us that you ain't winning all of them.
 
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I’ve been lurking since early this morning 😂

I’ve tried that but as soon as some twat annoys me I get involved!


City Life Art GIF by Sherchle
 
With that run of games coming up, it was a must with 6 points against Spammers and Forest.

How many points do we get out of Liverpool, ManC, Woolwich, and Newcastle? My exact guess will be, not many!

Well we are unbeaten this season and took 7 points out of 12 against Liverpool, City, Woolwich and Newcastle so you might want to revise your expectations!

There are plenty of opportunities for us to counter teams. The only reason they have 10 men behind the ball is we constantly allow that to happen by not countering.
We win the ball in our 3rd of the pitch, with space to attack, but we don't do it. We take too many passes. Often sideways or backwards. All it takes is 15 seconds or so and the opportunity is gone. Any well drilled side will have got back and into shape and we ain't getting anywhere.

I'd love to see the average number of passes we make before we actually score. I bet it's lower than most think.

Romero is the prime culprit for this slow shit. He literally slows to a standstill with the ball at his feet and starts pointing while the opponent get plenty of bodies behind the ball. Then he passes sideways.

When we are chasing a game he shows he can play boldly and get the ball forward, but he is so sluggish early on in games. Far too little urgency from him compared to someone like Vertonghen who always played out crisply.
 
There are plenty of opportunities for us to counter teams. The only reason they have 10 men behind the ball is we constantly allow that to happen by not countering.
We win the ball in our 3rd of the pitch, with space to attack, but we don't do it. We take too many passes. Often sideways or backwards. All it takes is 15 seconds or so and the opportunity is gone. Any well drilled side will have got back and into shape and we ain't getting anywhere.

I'd love to see the average number of passes we make before we actually score. I bet it's lower than most think.

You think that’s by design because the system doesn’t want transitions?

Or because the players are still learning the system and improving?
 
We don't, doesn't mean you still shouldn't be rolling over sides with vastly fewer resources and inferior players though...

The fact that we rarely do should be annoying to manager, players and fans, that's how you stay motivated to strive to improve.

It's nothing to do with god given rights, it's an absolute fact that we have better players, facilities etc than most clubs. Align that with the right attitude and you should be comfortably beating many of the sides in this league most of the time, particularly at home.

If you play the lower 14 sides at home in the league, any one of those sides can give you a tough game on any given day, maybe they get really fortunate and frustrate you enough to nick 3 points. That doesn't mean that every game should be a grind! People seem to cling to this notion that top sides get the 3 points without playing well... The top sides don't grind out a hard fought win in all of those games, they beat those teams comfortably most of the time, give out a hiding or two even, and then when they do have the occasional 1 in 10 off day, they grind out the win anyway.

That is not what we have done, we have been grinding without playing all that well for much of the season now.

Something seems off, if you'd have told me during the first 10 games of the season that this is what we'd be serving up 7 months later I'd be baffled.

I'm personally never one of those that claims a game will be easy and we'll smash the next opponent, there's certainly games where I think we should, but I know we won't, because of all of the actual evidence to suggest we won't.

Ultimately, I'm rambling on to say that in isolation, a laboured win against Luton is fine, when the majority of your games are going like that though, it's irritating.

You can enjoy the things you listed, they are enjoyable, Ange seems a good bloke, it's nice that the players are having a good time Monday to Friday at work, vibes are on point... but it's all pretty irrelevant compared to what happens on the pitch, and right now it's not enjoyable at all for the most part.

We've lost all the dynamism we seemed to have early on, incisive passing and constant movement into dangerous spaces has given way to constant recycling of the ball between our defenders and dm, often feeling the need to give Vicario a good amount of possession before bothering to mount a slow march upon the opposition defence. Pretty sure Zouma was having a fag break off camera at points last night whilst we faffed about with the ball at the other end of the pitch.

For the record, I'm not saying Ange out, I don't get this need to be so precious about that whenever a criticism of the side is made. I very much hope things improve under him, but I'm also not utterly convinced that time will change anything either, we seem to need a lot of external factors to come together for us to show our "best", we need to be taking charge and forcing the issue ourselves and I'm not seeing much sign of that.

Even the supposed aggressive winner types (ie Romero) just slowly and passively plod about whilst opponents are sitting deep, it's the likes of him that you'd hope would be providing the urgency and oomph to break down these sides.

I just can't marry up the squad we have on paper with what we're seeing on the pitch, like I said before, I have a bias towards our players but look at the following and tell me if you disagree:

- Our keeper is class
- Our two starting centre backs are class, and provide all the attributes you'd ask for in a top pairing
- Our two starting fullbacks are class, defensively competent enough and provide a real attacking threat for differing reasons
- Our pool of central midfielders is very strong, and pretty well rounded. In theory we can put out a range of combinations depending on the opposition and what we feel would be best suited to taking control of the game against 90% of the opposition we face in the PL.
- Our forwards are the main point most feel that could do with improvement, however, Richi and Son have both scored a respectable number so far this season, Johnson is putting up good numbers, they are a perfectly capable unit in this league, they just don't have that x factor that puts them in the top bracket.

Yet, we concede loads, we don't particularly control games, we score a lot but don't often win comfortably, we don't really create all that much...


I can't put my finger on what exactly is the problem, but I'd be inclined to feel that it's something to do with attitude if pressed, I don't know what needs to happen for it to be rectified...

But it's frustrating.
Nice post mate, I was probably abit ott with my reply. I take on board what you're saying and you do raise some good points.

I think in general we are in a much better place than we have been the last couple of seasons, there are elements of our play which do need improving but I think that will come with time. Likewise there is alot to like about the way we are so much better on the ball than what we were last season.

Hopefully we can finish as high as possible, I'm sure there will be some surprise results against the teams most people are writing us off against already. Football is never as simple as it should be.
 
Managers like Pep and tactics like tikka taka have fucked the beautiful game up!
The game was beautiful enough. There was nothing more beautiful than a winger taking on a full back and turning him inside out and cross for a centre forward or midfielder hitting the box to score. Where have solo goals went? Strikes from 30 yards?
For as much as you have to pass the ball it has became everything and the game is worse for it.
I get why we play the way we do and how we try to move teams but I want to see a lot more of that old stuff I mentioned. Anyone who says today’s game is better is blind to how the game should be played. It’s meant to be fun and exciting.
 
The game was beautiful enough. There was nothing more beautiful than a winger taking on a full back and turning him inside out and cross for a centre forward or midfielder hitting the box to score. Where have solo goals went? Strikes from 30 yards?
For as much as you have to pass the ball it has became everything and the game is worse for it.
I get why we play the way we do and how we try to move teams but I want to see a lot more of that old stuff I mentioned. Anyone who says today’s game is better is blind to how the game should be played. It’s meant to be fun and exciting.

Absolutely

How many solo runs do you see where a player (like Greavsie used to) takes on and beats several opposing players and scores?

Very rarely because they will be chopped down in a tactical foul and then you get some twat of a commentator praising the culprit saying some crap like ‘he took one for the team’

Pep’s teams have always been masters of this but it’s the norm now sadly
 
Players that excel in 1on1 play and can play in tight spaces, wingers for example who can do this will take us up levels.


So I do agree with you about the wingers but can we stretch our budget to bring in a top striker, someone that can anticipate their crosses and know where to be? Johnson put a couple of good crosses in vs West Ham but we had nobody there to knock them in. Son doesn't have the CF instinct to do that.

I don't hold much hope for Veliz getting much game time next season, and I don't want our players to be injured but if Richarlison gets injured then it might be an opportunity for him, if we don't buy a new CF in the summer.
 
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