Right bed wetters, it's time to man up

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lol - look at the financial reports - do you still think we're up there with the big boys?

Were those people booing 5 years ago when we had our first 5th finish under Jol?

You don't need a Venn diagram to see the correlation, my friend
Of course not, a Venn diagram doesn't empirically prove correlation, it merely overlaps groups.

For correlation you would probably defer to a scatter chart of some form. I'll let you work out the axis.
 
Im not sure thats fair.

Demsey has shown the mental fortitude to get big goals, and behind Defoe and Bale is our highest scorer. We need him now more than ever.

Sigurdsson has been steadily improving IMO, now is his time to shine - every game I see him in these days he makes really positive contributions.

Holtby I really dont know well enough to say much, but he is a positive player at both ends of the pitch and runs his heart out - something that is welcome right now.

The fact they are all we got doesnt mean that they are enough, sadly.

Dempsey has got big goals, but he is a poacher who gets on the end of things. He doesnt create for himself, or anybody else, and he doesnt drop back to dig deep when we are under the cosh. So in games like last night (and there will be many, many more) he may as well be sitting in West Upper.

Siggy. Improving, I agree, but weak physically and not a clever enough footballer to use his skills and minimize his weakness often enough. He's a decent option off the bench, and nothing more at this stage imo.

Holtby. Well last night I was thinking "get yourself out of Bale's bum and go on your own". Now he will have to, so we will see if not playing in the shadow of someone he is clearly in awe of will help him. Enthusiasm and attitude is there, but unless Dembele takes a bigger part in our attacks and leadership up front, I cant see Holtby, Siggy, or Dempsey doing anything to help Adebayor get into the game.
 
oooh, pretty graphs and charts. And some numbers in a spreadsheet.

I'll be back later and work how these are to do with people's expectation as I've got to shoot now.

And if you could sort out a Venn diagram that would pretty much make my Friday.

Many thanks in advance.

:love:
Mock him all you want, but I think he's right. There does need to be a huge dose of reality for a lot of fans.

The problem is that football in the modern era is as much a ruthless business as it is a sport. If anything most fans of most clubs get wrapped up in the notion of glory, be it trophies, big games, star players or whatever else. This tends to put on the rose tinted glasses that converts hope into expectation. Fans then get pissed off when their over inflated expectations aren't fulfilled and they see other teams doing better,or getting a trophy they never won. For me, having started following the club when we are pretty fucking shit, it is with huge incredulity that I now see the lack of spirit and booiing that happens. People have short memories, and they also do not realise than as much as they are fans of the game, they're also consumers of the modern business. The latter is not grasped by a great deal of them.

ArcspacE ArcspacE is right in so much as there needs to be a dose of good hard reality about where Spurs sit in the grand scheme of things. Like it or not, we have to compete in the business side of football and, at present, we are not anywhere close to top of the tree. If anything our current league position and the quality of our squad is a testament to Levy's business abilities (irrepsective of his football abilities) in so much as we are probably in a better position than our wage structure, stadium and financial capital currently allows.

Fans have to appreciate that success in business does not come overnight and the business element is a fundemental part of the modern game. We have made huge strides in the last 15 years. People must be patient and realise that as long as we take little steps each year in the right direction then sooner or later we will start to get the success they long for. They need to get away from this idea that "I've paid my money and I want it all now, now, now". That's simply not how it works. Christ, so many fans these days, of this club and others, remind me of the Veruca Salt character from Willy Wonka and her "I want a golden goose daddy" song.
 
Cant believe there are people talking about entitlement and our demand for success, who demanded the sacking of a manager who got top 4 twice in three seasons.

:dempsey:
Weren't you joining the chorus of "let it go" just a couple of days ago, where ol' Twitchy and his "crazy contract" were under discussion?
 
Are we now accepting that we just are'nt that good after all?
The wages, the expectations all got the better of us?
Manager's team selections and tactics absolved?

I like this new mindset. Should make for a much more positive and relaxed forum.

:chicco:
 
The fact they are all we got doesnt mean that they are enough, sadly.

Dempsey has got big goals, but he is a poacher who gets on the end of things. He doesnt create for himself, or anybody else, and he doesnt drop back to dig deep when we are under the cosh. So in games like last night (and there will be many, many more) he may as well be sitting in West Upper.

Siggy. Improving, I agree, but weak physically and not a clever enough footballer to use his skills and minimize his weakness often enough. He's a decent option off the bench, and nothing more at this stage imo.

Holtby. Well last night I was thinking "get yourself out of Bale's bum and go on your own". Now he will have to, so we will see if not playing in the shadow of someone he is clearly in awe of will help him. Enthusiasm and attitude is there, but unless Dembele takes a bigger part in our attacks and leadership up front, I cant see Holtby, Siggy, or Dempsey doing anything to help Adebayor get into the game.

I think you are being harsh on Dempsey, he has some really classy assists this season so has shown he can play people in. He has also shown, as you point out, the ability to poach goals - something we are desperate for. I am not his biggest fan, but do think he is a decent player able to contribute. Given his total lack of pace, and given that Parker/Dembele/Holtby and Sigurdsson all show a willingness to get back I dont really want this in Dempsey who will primarily be a goal getter in that side.

Sigurdsson is weak, frustratingly so at times, but he makes key contributions game after game - better than a super sub IMO. His dead ball delivery alone is worth a start, before we start on the balls he puts into the box, passes he plays to release people in space and the fact that (like Dempsey) he has the knack for getting into the box at the right time.

As I said with Holtby I like his attitude and at a time when the team has to dig deep I think it will be valued. As a player though I think "do a job" is about the best we can expect of him, he isnt really a winger and doesnt yet seem to be on the same wavelength as others. Has a tendancy for first time passes, which I like, but no one ever see's them coming!

I think we have a collection of very talented players, that should be enough to get us into games - the question is now can we pull a more functional unit out of them.

Given AVBs much vaunted ideal of 433, and the fact none of our existing fit players are wingers, it may be the time for a shit or bust gamble to get things back on track.
 
Given AVBs much vaunted ideal of 433, and the fact none of our existing fit players are wingers, it may be the time for a shit or bust gamble to get things back on track.
Haven't really played anything resembeling a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in months now, if we were to revert I'm confident we'd look more solid and also less abject in attack, as we'll have a link between midfield and attack...
 
Haven't really played anything resembeling a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in months now, if we were to revert I'm confident we'd look more solid and also less abject in attack, as we'll have a link between midfield and attack...

In theory it suits the players at hand, and should make us more compact/hard to break down.

In practice I dont know, its a gamble.

The whole side is basically one paced, which doesnt help. Also with the likes of Parker trying to dictate attacking plays it is handicapped as well. I want to see him sitting, shielding, protecting and allowing the rest the freedom to play. I think Dembele/Holtby/Sigudsson (on paper) could be sensational linking and interchanging behind (or around) Adebayor and Dempsey, if they can get the ball moving quickly (something Parker is poor at).

It means Walker and Ekotto have a huge responsibility in providing width without exposing us badly, somewhere else Parker excels in offering security.

It also means Vertonghen (predominantly) stepping up the field to help us advance.

I guess realistically this is a lot of the same as we have done anyway in elements of our play, its more the case of really going for it now. A gamble, for sure, but IMO better than trying to stick to 442.
 
Haven't really played anything resembeling a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 in months now, if we were to revert I'm confident we'd look more solid and also less abject in attack, as we'll have a link between midfield and attack...
I agree, our crossing on the break seems to have completely dried up from both sides and in fairness to Defoe and Ade, there doesn't seem to be a cohesive plan on how to get them into goal scoring opportunities, which is probably why so many goals are coming from set-pieces and outside the area as we're allowing defences to reset themselves too much.

Most of the breaking play seems to be through the middle with Dembele and Parker making probing runs... What happened to the wing play?! I know Bale is being effective in the middle but I'd like to see a little "TOTAL FOOTBALL!!!!111" and have him and the LW switch a little more to try and create for our forwards.

Biggest mistake since January was letting Townsend go imo.
 
The whole side is basically one paced, which doesnt help. Also with the likes of Parker trying to dictate attacking plays it is handicapped as well. I want to see him sitting, shielding, protecting and allowing the rest the freedom to play.
In fairness to Scotty, his directness seems to be born from the fact that the rest of the midfield can be so static. It makes me laugh that he used to get sledged for passing sideways (when there were no decent forward options a lot of the time) and now he is being sledged for taking men on (when there are still no decent forward options).

The only part of his game that really gets on my nerves (aside from his sometimes very stray passing) is when he one touch passes directly back to to the defence when he has bags of room behind him and ends up putting us under pressure. But that is happening less and less frequently as he seems to be trying to emulate Dembele a little... It'll most likely lead to it's own problems, but Scotty at present compaired to when he came back from injury is vastly different, so I can't comlain.
 
Given AVBs much vaunted ideal of 433, and the fact none of our existing fit players are wingers, it may be the time for a shit or bust gamble to get things back on track.

We haven't played that formation in months

You need a better stream
 
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