I think you are confusing anti-zionism with anti-semitism. Don't the Israeli's dish out daily racism to Palestinians?
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I think you are confusing anti-zionism with anti-semitism. Don't the Israeli's dish out daily racism to Palestinians?
I don't see how this is relevant to what I said at all. I didn't say a thing about Israel v Palestine, I stated the fact that Israeli citizens are banned from entering the United Arab Emirates. People from the Jewish state are not allowed to enter the country which has Woolwich's stadium named after its government-owned airline. I spelled that out pretty clearly: "When the ONLY country whose citizens you ban happens to be the only Jewish state on the face of the planet..." As a show of solidarity with the people from the one country on this planet that shares my ethnicity, I don't particularly fancy travelling to the UAE. But if you want to take a cheap shot along the lines of ISRAEL IS RACIST ISRAEL IS RACIST ISRAEL IS RACIST (as if nobody else in the entire world is), go ahead, I'm not going to stop you.
My point is that there is ONE Jewish state in the entire world, and it's Israel. There is ONE country whose citizens are banned from entering the UAE, and it's Israel. The two are not a coincidence. There are loads and loads of countries that are aligned with other religions, but the Arab League chose to boycott the one Jewish state because it's a Jewish state. Even before Israel was established, Arab countries were boycotting Jewish economic interests in British Palestine. It was anti-Jewish, not anti-Israel, because Israel didn't even exist back then.
Not ALL the time, but OFTEN, anti-Zionism is a more palatable cover for anti-Semitism. "I don't hate Jews, some of my best friends are Jewish, I just hate it when those uppity Jews think their country should be allowed to defend itself like any other country, and look at this anti-Israel Jew I found who agrees with me, therefore I'm not being anti-Semitic, and you can't call me anti-Semitic because THOSE UPPITY JEWS always accuse everybody of anti-Semitism, but because I gave you that disclaimer I'm going to say something that's actually anti-Semitic and you can't call me out on it," etc etc.
There are countries other than the UAE that ban Israelis from entering. Bangladesh, for example. Brunei. Malaysia, unless you get a special permit. The reason I'm not talking about those is because they don't have a connection to Woolwich and therefore aren't relevant to the point I was making - that I don't want to give money, directly or indirectly, to a business which is owned by the government of Dubai, which formally and deliberately discriminates against people from my ethnic group. Woolwich's stadium is named after Emirates Airlines, which is also their shirt sponsor. Emirates Airlines is 100% owned by the government of Dubai. Dubai is part of the United Arab Emirates, simple as. Even if I wasn't a Spurs fan, I could never wear a Woolwich shirt because wearing something that said "Fly Emirates" would feel like supporting the blanket hatred of my own people. I wouldn't expect an ethnic Palestinian to be keen on buying Israeli products, either.
Bloody hell. I'm late to the game here, but...are the people who were saying "We'll sing what we want" a couple months ago when the use of the word Yid was threatened now the same ones saying, "Let's not have any connection between Jews and Spurs"?
As one of your resident Spurz Jooz, I don't expect any other fan to take a punch for me/my people. Supporting Spurs never had anything to do with my ethnicity. It's a happy coincidence. If the tables were turned and Woolwich were the "Jewish" club, I would happily defend their fans against anti-Semitism. (Handy fact: Israeli citizens are banned from entering the UAE, so I doubt there will ever be much of a Woolwich/Jewish association. When the ONLY country whose citizens you ban happens to be the only Jewish state on the face of the planet, I don't fancy contributing to your economy...I'll go on holiday to Southern California if I feel like sweating in Disneyland, don't need Dubai.)
As for Jewish people being white - well, it looks like that most of the time in Europe and America where the Jewish population is mostly Ashkenazi (descended from Eastern and Central European Jews), but in Israel, over half the Jewish population is Sephardic or Mizrahi, meaning they're descended from Jews in North Africa / Iberia / the Middle East / Asia. Yossi Benayoun is Sephardic - his parents are from Morocco. Charles Saatchi of horrible artwork fame is Mizrahi, he's from Baghdad. There were roughly 120,000 Jews in Iran alone up until 1948. There are indigenous Jews in India who look, well, Indian. Ethiopian Jews who are Black. They're not converts - they've been Jews for as long back as anybody knows. Chinese Jews who are the descendants of Persian traders but look Chinese. The typical "Jewish" appearance just happens to be European because that's who most people see.
There have been some fascinating mitochondrial DNA studies that have found that Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrahi Jews all have common ancestors in the Middle East and North Africa. A White English Jewish person is genetically more similar to a Greek or Southern Italian person, or to a Kurdish or Iraqi Jew, than to a non-Jewish White English person. So it's not at all surprising that the Polish Jews in my family are darker than the Polish Catholics - and they didn't intermarry until my parent's generation even though they lived in the same region. Of course all this will be less relevant in the future because except for the ultra-orthodox we're marrying and having children outside our own ethnic group more often.
tl;dr version: I don't get sunburnt, it's fantastic.
Is that a body builder beer belly?!
I thought the reason the UAE and other Arab nations ban Israeli citizens is solidarity with Palestinians, so IMO the Palestinian issue is relevant to what you said. Israel in effect has turned Gaza into one huge concentration camp, where Palestinian stone throwing is met with tanks and bulldozers and every Israeli incursion where they commit horrific war crimes is blamed on unprovoked rocket attacks from Gaza, while the truth is usually that it is Israel that breaks the ceasefires in the region, and the rocket attacks are rarely unprovoked and usually against military targets while the Israeli response is disproportionate and indiscrimate.
Discrimination against Palestinians in Israel is rife in all areas of life, poverty is the norm, and the USA and EU turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities because of the burden of guilt about the Holocaust. Yet Israel gets away with war crimes from the Sabra and Shatila massacres which they didn't directly carry out but facilitated with flares and non-intervention, to the Gaza blockade itself and Operation Cast Lead in 2008, where Israel targeted and killed hundreds of civilians using indiscriminate weapons, and intentionally destroyed civilian infrastructure.
So my point is, that anti-Zionist sentiment by Arab nations in the Middle East against the state of Israel, should not be confused with anti-semitism against Jewish people all over the world. The two things are distinct in my view. You can very much be opposed to the right wing government of Israel and try to bring them to account for their crimes and not be anti-semitic. Likewise, you can oppose the repressive dictatorial regimes that subjugate women and working people that characterise alot of the Arab governments without being anti-Muslim.
Discrimination against Palestinians in Israel is rife in all areas of life, poverty is the norm, and the USA and EU turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities because of the burden of guilt about the Holocaust. Yet Israel gets away with war crimes from the Sabra and Shatila massacres which they didn't directly carry out but facilitated with flares and non-intervention, to the Gaza blockade itself and Operation Cast Lead in 2008, where Israel targeted and killed hundreds of civilians using indiscriminate weapons, and intentionally destroyed civilian infrastructure.
So my point is, that anti-Zionist sentiment by Arab nations in the Middle East against the state of Israel, should not be confused with anti-semitism against Jewish people all over the world. The two things are distinct in my view. You can very much be opposed to the right wing government of Israel and try to bring them to account for their crimes and not be anti-semitic. Likewise, you can oppose the repressive dictatorial regimes that subjugate women and working people that characterise alot of the Arab governments without being anti-Muslim.
My one contribution to this thread:
Cunts!!
Carry on
Cunts!!
Carry on
Let’s not get fucking bogged down in the politics of how bad Israel's right wing government are or the perfect humanitarian example Hezbollah set when their rockets are fired at civilians! Football overcomes everything, there are groups of Arabs and Jews playing in same teams, support them and football in general.
Hi Julesy - Thanks for the info re Jewish ethnicity, it's a useful aid to understanding a complex subject.
Just for the record I've never sang 'We'll sing what we want'.
I think it's a stupid song to a horrible tune - the same horrible tune to 'he plays on the left' which is an even more stupid song, and one again I never sing.
I also never sing 'Jermaine Defoe, he's a yiddo' when he palpably isn't. He's clearly neither Jewish nor a life long Spur. I believe he supported Woolwich in his youth. Absolutely ridiculous song in my view.
I also don't sing the Wenger or Campbell songs either.
I do sing 'Glory, glory' and 'when the Spurs' and 'we are the famous Tottenham' and 'if you know your history', amongst other good old Spurs songs
Just for the record I've never sang 'We'll sing what we want'.
I think it's a stupid song to a horrible tune - the same horrible tune to 'he plays on the left' which is an even more stupid song, and one again I never sing.
I also never sing 'Jermaine Defoe, he's a yiddo' when he palpably isn't. He's clearly neither Jewish nor a life long Spur. I believe he supported Woolwich in his youth. Absolutely ridiculous song in my view.
I also don't sing the Wenger or Campbell songs either.
I do sing 'Glory, glory' and 'when the Spurs' and 'we are the famous Tottenham' and 'if you know your history', amongst other good old Spurs songs
Are we going to go back to how most terrace songs aren't to be taken literally? I'd never let Heurelho Gomes shag my wife etc.
Do you sing "We are Tottenham, from The Lane"?
Clearly, NONE of us are actually Tottenham (either the area or club) and we are not from WHL. Ridiculous to sing that.
How about "One Michael Dawson"? I BET theres more in the world.....somewhere.
"By far the greatest team"? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, not really though are we?
http://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/yid-no-more.4822/page-3#post-215999Do you sing "We are Tottenham, from The Lane"?
Clearly, NONE of us are actually Tottenham (either the area or club) and we are not from WHL. Ridiculous to sing that.
How about "One Michael Dawson"? I BET theres more in the world.....somewhere.
"By far the greatest team"? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, not really though are we?
Just a thought if we had moved to Stratford what would have been then?
GG and most of its cronies who have found there way over here would be celebrating the nice places to eat and shop, the extra parking spaces and swanky wine bars, while Stratford FC did the "only possible" thing it could to attract corporate businesses and get rich and compete.
Staying in the "shit hole" Tottenham was "not an option", and would see us 12th in few years.
The only sad thing about that site crashing so often is that all those posts can now be denied.
Skimmed through 17 pages worth of shit ..... A lot of good historical information that sadly has f all to do with why we use the yid word and that has sadly turned into a whole load of bollox now going completely off topic. I ain't jewish, I'm a young spurs fan who's grown up in the "shithole" you call tottenham nearly all my life. Every match day since i can remember fans have used the yid word as a form of identity for our club and now some are calling for a change due to a few incidents abroad. English fans will always be a target abroad no matter what, yet alot of you are being sold with the bullshit the media is reporting. Whether its the West ham pikeys, chelski chavs or even the le arse fags it don't make a difference to firms abroad due to the reputation built up by english hooliganism. I don't mean to offend any jew as being polish i am well aware of the shit jews have had to put up with over the decades. However I'm still a yid and will be till the day i fucking die as this is all i've known all my life, sue me if your offended i don't give a shit, the way society is going i wont be able to describe sweet fuck all as it might offend someone somewhere.
Spot on.