Chelsea (league cup semi final)

[AcrossThePond]

Want to stop the time wasting due to injuries there's a simple fix. Stop the clock when a trainer comes on the pitch. Not throw-ins, not penalties, goal-kicks etc. Just when a guy goes down. That way if he's not injured, there's no advantage gained, if he is, we don't have to second-guess.





I know, I know, I'll now proceed to duck and cover from the incoming posts.
Duck & Cover



edit...
i don't really want them to make that rule change, but i find the fake injuries far more disruptive to the game than VAR. There's gamesmanship, and then their is flailing around on the ground for 30 seconds, laying down for 60, limping off for another 15, only to sprint back on as soon as the ref allows. Absolutely hate it. If they're not going to card or ban players for that nonsense, then just stop the clock and remove any incentive to do it.

 

[Alli-Luya]

Loved that game. It has a lot to answer for. I can barely walk past an ice cream truck without the urge to clothesline someone.

I actually had to stop playing it as it burned itself to the insides of my eyelids. Tactics tended to be smash as many players as you could to see the ambulance come on.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

didn't say it was - merely pointing out that VAR runs discreetly in the background for the most part and actua interference is very minimal. You seem to be of the opinion its not actually clearing anything up and just as many people disagree as agree, which according to the best data available, is simply not true. The world cup had 455 reviews, only 20 stoppages one every 3 games), very little actual contentious moments, and that other than purist wannabe cunts who bemoan that "it spoils the flow of the game", was very successful. something like 80% of people surveyed agreed so, not 50-50 as you allude to.

those reviews just confirmed the ref's decision and that there wasn't any need to stop the game, what's the fucking point of it? To prove that refs make the right call 98% of the time???

 

[The Fish]

Tottenham Hotspur 1 plastic vermin 0 is all that matters. Lets finish the shit bags off in the second leg and beat Burton in the final.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Germans largely hate it, the Italian are beginning to hate it and they fucked up in Spain last week. It was meant to make things fairer but in reality it is causing fans to be more certain that the game is fixed.

Personally I think it's a good thing for football but has been rushed into being rolled out. The whole man sitting in a room reviewing it should be scrapped, it should come down to everything that is inside the stadium i.e. The cameras, the screen for reviewing it and the ref. Only the ref should be making the decision in my opinion, it reduces risk of different interpretations and who's eyes saw what.

The ref is in charge of the match, leave that responsibility to him and stop spending needless money on a trailer, an extra set of eyes etc. Personally I think the situation last night wasn't too bad, it's just that there were two decisions to make in one go with it being offside and was it a penalty. 90 odd seconds to confirm if something was the right call or wrong call in a semi final where we haven't won a trophy for a decade really is a no brainer. Unfortunately the VAR tools being used seem a few years away from keeping everyone singing from the same hymn sheet

 

[GDN]

those reviews just confirmed the ref's decision and that there wasn't any need to stop the game, what's the fucking point of it? To prove that refs make the right call 98% of the time???

tahts a different question. all i'm showing is that far from interfering and causing loads of stoppages as you claim, it actually doesn't - it causes very, very few. yesterdays incident is very rare in the grand scheme of VAR to date, and to hang an entire point of view n that incident is just fucking daft.

i get that you dont like it - thats fine, no issues with a preference, but to claim it doesnt get things right the majority of the time is just silly.

most complaints about VAR is its application - not its accuracy.

 

[Princess Bleach]

They do but did not bottle the City game. And Klopp has no real form for bottling so not sure how valid that is of yet.

Klopp has lost his last 6 finals, including 2 champions league finals. He hasn't won a trophy since 2012.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

tahts a different question. all i'm showing is that far from interfering and causing loads of stoppages as you claim, it actually doesn't - it causes very, very few. yesterdays incident is very rare in the grand scheme of VAR to date, and to hang an entire point of view n that incident is just fucking daft.

i get that you dont like it - thats fine, no issues with a preference, but to claim it doesnt get things right the majority of the time is just silly.

most complaints about VAR is its application - not its accuracy.

All you have proved is it isn't required as the 450 times used it agreed with the ref. So I'm saying what's the point?

For the other times, it was deployed, it did slow it down as it was being used. Of those times it was used there was plenty of controversies as not everyone agreed with calls, which is no different to what we have today. Apart from one key difference is that 2mins (or whatever) was added onto the game and those at the stadium had to endure this, not knowing what was going on, sat in silence divorced from the game.

What a pile of old bollox.

 

[bus-conductor]

Written by someone who doesn't go to live football matches and only watches from the sofa. VAR is for you, the TV viewer. This is the 2nd live game I've been to when it's been in practice both have been shit as a direct result. Whereas no doubt from your sofa you've got excited as you are rewatching the replays endlessly on the TV screen and got carried away with the squabbles from the commentators are providing for you.

Fake injuries are usually booed by the fans, time wasting is whistled and booed by the fans. Take note of this, the fans are creating a noise whilst this is going on, they aren't sat there scratching the heads, left in the dark about what the fuck is happening, what exactly is being reviewed and why. As a result silence. Silence at the very part of a game where there should be a spontaneous reaction from the crowd, be that from the defending side or attacking side.

How the fuck can you say last night's VAR decision was the correct outcome when everyone is arguing over the validity of the decision as the correct one? Chelsea manager complaining about it, providing so-called photographic evidence of it being an incorrect decision! Our manager hating it. The game was halted for nearly 2 fucking minutes and still, the controversy exists that those that want it said it would be eliminated from the game.

So 90 seconds of VAR, that overturned what would have been an incorrect offside, ruined the other 90 minutes for you?

I'll swap the spontaneous reaction to an incorrect offside for the cheer that greeted the correct overturn any day. And you still got your booing from the Chelsea lot. Win fucking win.

Let's get this straight, I am a spurs season ticket holder of about 30 odd years. I also go and watch other live football almost weekly. I guarantee you I watch as much or more live football than you do. As Ive said, I've watched quite a few games now live with VAR (about 20 more than you) and it hasn't spoiled a single one. The crowd still made noises. When a goal was confirmed as good by VAR they got to cheer twice. Goals get disallowed anyway and that cheer is for nothing.

I can say last night's outcome was correct because I've seen the offside line graphic and the penalty foul from about 4 different angles. I don't give a fuck if people still want to talk about it.

 

[BriPelli]

I didn’t thinks Winks had a good one yesterday. He was indecisive and slow on the ball. Better than Eriksen though, who had his worst game in months.

Certainly looked like Eriksen had a leg and arm already in Madrid.

 

[GDN]

All you have proved is it isn't required as the 450 times used it agreed with the ref. So I'm saying what's the point?

For the other times, it was deployed, it did slow it down as it was being used. Of those times it was used there was plenty of controversies as not everyone agreed with calls, which is no different to what we have today. Apart from one key difference is that 2mins (or whatever) was added onto the game and those at the stadium had to endure this, not knowing what was going on, sat in silence divorced from the game.

What a pile of old bollox.

as per my last post - experiences to date have yielded positive feedback generally for accuracy. the issues are mainly with a bit of confusion, and understanding why its been used in some situations, but not other similar ones. Of course they need to sort that out, but its accuracy is good.

Much better to hear the odd person like you moaning about it slowing the game down and being a bit confused that the crying from everyone that follows a bad call.

 

[Bazali]

Oh come on Guido, unless you've been on Mars for the last 2 years, everyone knows what's going on. Something major happens, ref puts his hand on his ear etc etc.

The atmosphere no more gets sucked out for this than any other of the other 40 or so minutes when the ball isn't in play - when players pretend to be injured, when players spend two minutes squabbling with the ref about every major decision, when the goalie fucks about with a goal kick, when the PL (unlike some other European leagues) refuses to have multiple match balls all round the pitch to be used as soon as one gets kicked out etc etc etc.

In fact, VAR actually builds tension and drama as everyone waits for the decision, which will usually be a major one. A goal, a pen a red card.

As I said above, football wants to get to grips with all the trivial bullshit time wasting rather than worrying about the one bit that actually does something useful.

Last night was a perfect example of VAR bringing about a correct outcome that could have massive ramifications and would have been different without it. And that goal would have been given offside without out. I don't care if that goes for or against us, I'm fed up with seeing games decided by major incidents that are called wrong. They just become a farce.

Ive also had the benefit of watching a lot of live games where VAR is used, and can honestly say it doesn't make a jot of difference to the flow of the game.

As a rugby league fan I can say that it’s enhanced the game

The crowd watch the replays on the big screen and really get involved

It doesn’t get every decision right as some are still open to interpretation which is why we don’t review forward passes but I think it’s a good thing

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

So 90 seconds of VAR, that overturned what would have been an incorrect offside, ruined the other 90 minutes for you?

I'll swap the spontaneous reaction to an incorrect offside for the cheer that greeted the correct overturn any day. And you still got your booing from the Chelsea lot. Win fucking win.

Let's get this straight, I am a spurs season ticket holder of about 30 odd years. I also go and watch other live football almost weekly. I guarantee you I watch as much or more live football than you do. As Ive said, I've watched quite a few games now live with VAR (about 20 more than you) and it hasn't spoiled a single one. The crowd still made noises. When a goal was confirmed as good by VAR they got to cheer twice. Goals get disallowed anyway and that cheer is for nothing.

I can say last night's outcome was correct because I've seen the offside line graphic and the penalty foul from about 4 different angles. I don't give a fuck if people still want to talk about it.

How you can say the atmosphere isn't affected is utterly beyond me.

It's was "correct" in your opinion, just take a look in the wider spectrum and it has completely divided opinion. There is as much debate about was it or wasn't it whether VAR was in use or not in use. It hasn't cleared up a single thing, the tedious debate still rages. The one thing it did do was add nearly two fucking minutes of utter shite to get the same controversy had it not been in use.

Magic.

 

[Atomic knob]

Sports around the world are now driven by television, and the television audience. I believe that's why there is replay challenges in baseball. Baseball is as old and traditionalist as English football, but bowed to pressure for replays.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

as per my last post - experiences to date have yielded positive feedback generally for accuracy. the issues are mainly with a bit of confusion, and understanding why its been used in some situations, but not other similar ones. Of course they need to sort that out, but its accuracy is good.

Much better to hear the odd person like you moaning about it slowing the game down and being a bit confused that the crying from everyone that follows a bad call.

But I'm not moaning about the 450 times (just as I wasn't moaning about those moments if VAR wasn't in use), I'm moaning about the times it is used when it "disagrees/challenges" the ref's original decision. This is where the delay is, this is where it slows the game down. I'm always saying that these times are few and far between because on average the ref gets 98% of his decisions correct. So we are left with a system that clearly isn't dealing with the 2% very well. What's the point. Why can't people be content that 2% of decisions are "incorrect" and using VAR to deal with this 2% doesn't clear up whether the decision made was "correct" as some of those are still contested, like last night?

Al this bullshit to still have uncertainty on what might be 1% improvement on the original ref's decision.

 

[CroSpurs]

How you can say the atmosphere isn't affected is utterly beyond me.

It's was "correct" in your opinion, just take a look in the wider spectrum and it has completely divided opinion. There is as much debate about was it or wasn't it whether VAR was in use or not in use. It hasn't cleared up a single thing, the tedious debate still rages. The one thing it did do was add nearly two fucking minutes of utter shite to get the same controversy had it not been in use.

Magic.

He was onside.
VAR is getting decisions right in very high percentage. Much higher than human eye of ref during the game. And if sometimes ref gets it wrong, it's not VAR fault, it's fault of that idiotic ref. But decisions are most of the time SPOT ON and thats the most important thing.
It's just getting started, first season ffs, have some patience. It will improve surely.

And if someone tell me controversy makes football great, just fuck off. It doesn't. It makes football terrible. Losing in CL knock-out stage, big PL game, or even random fucking game because of wrong decision by the ref is terrible feeling. We all know that, why do we pretend like is normal and great for football?

Would you rather that game ended 0:0, but sure, thoose 90 sec wouldn't be there, fucking 90 sec ruined the game and Harry goal for everyone. Oh please give me a break.

 

[Totti]

It adds to the drama in my view.

Chelsea score a goal in the second leg. Last minute which sees them force the game to penalties. Their fans giving our fans stick.

But it looks like it comes off a hand.

The drama unfolds. Did it? Did it not? Turns out it did. Goal not given. Away end at Stamford Bridge absolutely erupts. "Sit down shut up. Sit down shut up". "You're fuuucking shit"

Spurs through. We win the cup. Fuck 'em.

Sick of the amount of times decision have gone against us. Especially against those cunts.

 

[Cripps14]

But I'm not moaning about the 450 times (just as I wasn't moaning about those moments if VAR wasn't in use), I'm moaning about the times it is used when it "disagrees/challenges" the ref's original decision. This is where the delay is, this is where it slows the game down. I'm always saying that these times are few and far between because on average the ref gets 98% of his decisions correct. So we are left with a system that clearly isn't dealing with the 2% very well. What's the point. Why can't people be content that 2% of decisions are "incorrect" and using VAR to deal with this 2% doesn't clear up whether the decision made was "correct" as some of those are still contested, like last night?

Al this bullshit to still have uncertainty on what might be 1% improvement on the original ref's decision.

The way it is supposed to be used in Germany, is to correct a clear mistake. (E.g. Pedro Mendes goal at Old Trafford) To be honest, the offside call yesterday was marginal, therefore I believe it should not have been used.

Much like in cricket where they have the option of umpires call, for those decisions where you could see it either way. The upper body argument sammyspurs has mentioned. To me if a call can't be made having looked at one replay from say 2 different angles, then you've got to say: We'll stick with what the ref saw. That way the ref still has the "power" but also the responsibility to make the correct call, however clear mistakes can be eradicated.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

It adds to the drama in my view.

Chelsea score a goal in the second leg. Last minute which sees them force the game to penalties. Their fans giving our fans stick.

But it looks like it comes off a hand.

The drama unfolds. Did it? Did it not? Turns out it did. Goal not given. Away end at Stamford Bridge absolutely erupts. "Sit down shut up. Sit down shut up". "You're fuuucking shit"

Spurs through. We win the cup. Fuck 'em.

Sick of the amount of times decision have gone against us. Especially against those cunts.

The problem is if it puts an element of doubt in the minds of fans. Remember that cup game in the snow which was wrecked by VAR? Every time a goal went in nobody was celebrating because they were expecting it to be ruled out for some stupid reason.

Others have used this example before, but imagine that Aguero goal...the euphoria of the moment...followed by a drawn out check to see if there was a minor infringement in the build-up.

 

[Totti]

The problem is if it puts an element of doubt in the minds of fans. Remember that cup game in the snow which was wrecked by VAR? Every time a goal went in nobody was celebrating because they were expecting it to be ruled out for some stupid reason.

Others have used this example before, but imagine that Aguero goal...the euphoria of the moment...followed by a drawn out check to see if there was a minor infringement in the build-up.

That was VAR used wrong though. It was pathetic and its sad that its a game people refer back to when talking about VAR. The referee and linesman had absolutely no clue.

Yesterday it was used near on perfectly. Advantage was played and then when the conclusion of Kane being taken down for the penalty happened, it was checked, when the game had stopped.

It's a work in progress but I've been impressed with it more often than not. It was superb at the World Cup.

It would never have been used for the Aguero goal unless the referee was totally incompetent like the one for our cup goal over a year ago. People using that example are as incompetent as the referee.