THST Board Meeting with THFC

[Joe Clash]

Where have I said that? Where have I said the club should extend itself in the market? I have said the exact opposite for well over a decade. I want the club to adopt a different startegy to its current one because it isn’t yielding results. When it can build 2 hugely talented sides this decade but not win anything then questions need to be asked because something is amiss. When teams likes of Sevilla with signicantly less resources can win 5 UEFA cups in the last 10 years then a change tact is required. When a mediocre Woolwich did can win 3 FA Cups in the last 4 then we need to rethink our approach. That’s what I want.

But what has that done for Sevilla and woolwich? Winning 2nd tier trophies changes nothing. Both clubs still sell their best players, and you want to follow their model?

 

[78Spur]

But that is the issue of contention, the stadium is being turned into something that it is not. It is not and never will be a means to do that because the additional revenues it will generate will not be great enough to enable that. It obviously extends our capacity to increase our payroll but not to the extent it would level us with there likes of United, Barca and Real. And as long as we remain unable to compete on remuneration then we will always remain vunerable to those clubs.

This is the problem with your argument, it's not to make us United, Real or Barca, it's to make sure we are in a better financial place than we were before. The argument cannot be that the new ground will suddenly make us bigger than well established super clubs, that isn't happening. The financial argument is that it makes the club stronger and more likely to remain as a Premier League club, more likely to retain players and harder to extract players away from than we already are. You can't expect to make us the world's biggest sporting franchise, to expect that is delusional. Be careful here my argument is not that the new stadium will allow us to buy players for £200m that's not happening because that kind of money comes from an Oil Well or state aid.

As for your point on Madrid well I think the premium we can now command stems largely from PSG and their actions last summer ( which has had a monumental inflationary effect) and from the enhanced financial dominance of the PL which the rest of the European game is struggling to contend with. It’s has massively empowered PL clubs but the fact remains that in the Bosman age players dictate their futures not clubs. And the games best will always gravitate to the clubs that pay the most and dominate the major honours and that isn’t us.

That is an opinion, it's not one that is entirely proven, how a team finds and retains their players is not predicated entirely on money. You can see this by the squad we currently have, they have not cost us necessarily high transfer fees and they are not the best paid players in the league, yet here we are. Not every player is soley motivated by money and we have advantages beyond just the money, we have a respected manager, we have a base in London (which is attractive to most non english players), we have a bonus structure. Our players aren't pleading poverty and it is inevitable that we will not keep all our talent but we'll also buy well and develop our players, those players in our development squad will see that if they're good enough they will play, unlike some of those languishing or being loaned out by Chelsea & City, it's not delusional to believe we can't retain more of our talent as time goes on. As for honours, do you think that's what attracted Aubemayang to the Emirates? Also we might lose Alderweireld, you know what? If we do, horrible as it will be to lose him, we'll replace him, that's life.

What they deserve criticism for however is the qualification culture that they have fostered during their tenure. This preoccupation with the CL has coincided with one of the longest periods without silverware in the club’s history. And for what benefit exactly, the CL doesn’t enable us to retain our best players, it doesn’t enable to sign players that we couldn’t before, it isn’t the great leveler that it is presented to be and can never be that. It extends our revenue base but as with the stadium not to any meaningful degree - certainly not on a competive front. The game is about glory but seemingly that is being forgotten by a large contingent of our supporters.

The qualification culture? Seriously! They have been 17 years, do you think we had a qualification culture in 2001? Were we winning things? Had we been pretty much shocking for the decade leading up to that point, barely qualifying for Europe, barely surviving in the Premier League? If someone spoke to you back then and said, 'this lot are going to give us a team that can challenge for the league, they're going to build a new training centre that looks world class, a new stadium and guess what, you're even going to finish above Woolwich.. Would you be arguing about a 'qualification culture'?? I don't get it..

The horrible truth is we may not win a thing and you have to ask yourself is it better that we've had a bloody good go at it with a quality squad or do we have to regard it as another failure? You say that Woolwich have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, that isn't saving Wenger, do you not see? Once you win the FA Cup that will never be enough, you might say it's a nice problem to have, I am not so sure.

 

[Boltonspur]

This is the problem with your argument, it's not to make us United, Real or Barca, it's to make sure we are in a better financial place than we were before. The argument cannot be that the new ground will suddenly make us bigger than well established super clubs, that isn't happening. The financial argument is that it makes the club stronger and more likely to remain as a Premier League club, more likely to retain players and harder to extract players away from than we already are. You can't expect to make us the world's biggest sporting franchise, to expect that is delusional. Be careful here my argument is not that the new stadium will allow us to buy players for £200m that's not happening because that kind of money comes from an Oil Well or state aid.



That is an opinion, it's not one that is entirely proven, how a team finds and retains their players is not predicated entirely on money. You can see this by the squad we currently have, they have not cost us necessarily high transfer fees and they are not the best paid players in the league, yet here we are. Not every player is soley motivated by money and we have advantages beyond just the money, we have a respected manager, we have a base in London (which is attractive to most non english players), we have a bonus structure. Our players aren't pleading poverty and it is inevitable that we will not keep all our talent but we'll also buy well and develop our players, those players in our development squad will see that if they're good enough they will play, unlike some of those languishing or being loaned out by Chelsea & City, it's not delusional to believe we can't retain more of our talent as time goes on. As for honours, do you think that's what attracted Aubemayang to the Emirates? Also we might lose Alderweireld, you know what? If we do, horrible as it will be to lose him, we'll replace him, that's life.



The qualification culture? Seriously! They have been 17 years, do you think we had a qualification culture in 2001? Were we winning things? Had we been pretty much shocking for the decade leading up to that point, barely qualifying for Europe, barely surviving in the Premier League? If someone spoke to you back then and said, 'this lot are going to give us a team that can challenge for the league, they're going to build a new training centre that looks world class, a new stadium and guess what, you're even going to finish above Woolwich.. Would you be arguing about a 'qualification culture'?? I don't get it..

The horrible truth is we may not win a thing and you have to ask yourself is it better that we've had a bloody good go at it with a quality squad or do we have to regard it as another failure? You say that Woolwich have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, that isn't saving Wenger, do you not see? Once you win the FA Cup that will never be enough, you might say it's a nice problem to have, I am not so sure.

Mate, you’re wasting your time.



Great posts by the way.

 

[78Spur]

Mate, you’re wasting your time.



Great posts by the way.

You're very kind and probably right!

 

[Joe Clash]

Mate, you’re wasting your time.



Great posts by the way.

I don’t think the Hood is all there. It’s like listening to an echo from the Big Bang. 13.5 billion years old. White noise.

 

[Joe Clash]

Typical Hood. When presented with a fine argument from 78Spur he disappears.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

This is the problem with your argument, it's not to make us United, Real or Barca, it's to make sure we are in a better financial place than we were before. The argument cannot be that the new ground will suddenly make us bigger than well established super clubs, that isn't happening. The financial argument is that it makes the club stronger and more likely to remain as a Premier League club, more likely to retain players and harder to extract players away from than we already are. You can't expect to make us the world's biggest sporting franchise, to expect that is delusional. Be careful here my argument is not that the new stadium will allow us to buy players for £200m that's not happening because that kind of money comes from an Oil Well or state aid.sure.

And the problem is with your argument is that we will still occupy the same place as before. We are the 6th biggest club by revenue without it and the 6th biggest club with it. As I previously it reinforces that postion and bridges the gap to Liverpool but does not have any significant scope with respect to our capacity. If we wish to see an example of what this enables them we only have to look at Woolwich and Ashburton, it’s achived none of its marketed benefits.

That is an opinion, it's not one that is entirely proven, how a team finds and retains their players is not predicated entirely on money. You can see this by the squad we currently have, they have not cost us necessarily high transfer fees and they are not the best paid players in the league, yet here we are. Not every player is soley motivated by money and we have advantages beyond just the money, we have a respected manager, we have a base in London (which is attractive to most non english players), we have a bonus structure. Our players aren't pleading poverty and it is inevitable that we will not keep all our talent but we'll also buy well and develop our players, those players in our development squad will see that if they're good enough they will play, unlike some of those languishing or being loaned out by Chelsea & City, it's not delusional to believe we can't retain more of our talent as time goes on. As for honours, do you think that's what attracted Aubemayang to the Emirates? Also we might lose Alderweireld, you know what? If we do, horrible as it will be to lose him, we'll replace him, that's life.

Not entirely but it has a massive bearing and the correlation between silverware and resources- notably payroll is there to see. As for player motivation, well money is a huge factor but as is honours and status. Players have a limited career and they will look to maximise this in all aspects. It’s why I will never begrudge any of our players moving to the likes of Madrid or Barca. They can command consistent silverware, the highest wages and the prestige of playing for the biggest clubs in the game. The real question should be why wouldn’t any of our players not want that? With regards to Aubermenrang, I think he is solely at Woolwich for the money. It’s no secret that they pay substantially higher salaries than Dortmund.

The qualification culture? Seriously! They have been 17 years, do you think we had a qualification culture in 2001? Were we winning things? Had we been pretty much shocking for the decade leading up to that point, barely qualifying for Europe, barely surviving in the Premier League? If someone spoke to you back then and said, 'this lot are going to give us a team that can challenge for the league, they're going to build a new training centre that looks world class, a new stadium and guess what, you're even going to finish above Woolwich.. Would you be arguing about a 'qualification culture'?? I don't get it..

The club has been obsessed by the CL since 2004 and became largely defined by this throughout this period. This isn’t a relevation Levy has spoken countless times of his desire for us to be CL club. And if finishing 4th becomes the central priority then is it any wonder that we do not win anything. Just look at our conduct in the Europa League during that time, despite us being one of the wealthiest clubs in this tournament we have consistently fielded weakened teams and had 2 managers openely state this is a distraction. When the club is consistently underachieving in the so called lesser tournaments but consistently over archiving in the league ( relative to its resources) it’s abundantly clear where it’s priorities lie.

The horrible truth is we may not win a thing and you have to ask yourself is it better that we've had a bloody good go at it with a quality squad or do we have to regard it as another failure? You say that Woolwich have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, that isn't saving Wenger, do you not see? Once you win the FA Cup that will never be enough, you might say it's a nice problem to have, I am not so sure.

The FA Cup has absolutely saved Wenger you only have to listen to the Woolwich fans to know that. It also completely killed the decade with no silverware argument that was levelled at them which is also being levelled at us now. The UEFA Cup is their last hope now and if he wins that then he will clearly continue at the club.

 

[mickdale]

Where have I said that? Where have I said the club should extend itself in the market? I have said the exact opposite for well over a decade. I want the club to adopt a different startegy to its current one because it isn’t yielding results. When it can build 2 hugely talented sides this decade but not win anything then questions need to be asked because something is amiss. When teams likes of Sevilla with signicantly less resources can win 5 UEFA cups in the last 10 years then a change tact is required. When a mediocre Woolwich did can win 3 FA Cups in the last 4 then we need to rethink our approach. That’s what I want.

ok what should we do then?

you've told us we cant compete with United financially
you've said we aren't doing things the right way - even though we are building a bigger stadium and getting extra-football revenue streams in

do we follow Nottingham Forest philosophy? after all they won the league then 2 x European cups
do we follow Leicester citys philosophy? they won the league
do we follow Arsenals philosophy? they won 3 cups as you have mentioned - hey maybe we can get arsene wenger at spurs as I'm sure he will be available in the summer and hes won more than the existing manager with his loser philosophy......

 

[WashingtonDCSPUR]

I think this conversation should be continued at the end of the season.
We are playing Rochdale tomorrow, hopefully we will be in the quarter finals of the FA Cup.
We have a good chance of beating Juve next week, a iconic club.
We are in the top 4.
We have a beautiful new shiny stadium on the horizon.
The future is very bright for our club

PSG looked crap against Real and now Neymar is out.
Barca certainly did not scare me watching them play the Chavs.
RM loose to Espanola tonight, they do not look good.
Woolwich are broken.
Mau U ruin players, Pogba, Martial etc?
Man City V Wigan

 

[Joe Clash]

And the problem is with your argument is that we will still occupy the same place as before. We are the 6th biggest club by revenue without it and the 6th biggest club with it. As I previously it reinforces that postion and bridges the gap to Liverpool but does not have any significant scope with respect to our capacity. If we wish to see an example of what this enables them we only have to look at Woolwich and Ashburton, it’s achived none of its marketed benefits.




Not entirely but it has a massive bearing and the correlation between silverware and resources- notably payroll is there to see. As for player motivation, well money is a huge factor but as is honours and status. Players have a limited career and they will look to maximise this in all aspects. It’s why I will never begrudge any of our players moving to the likes of Madrid or Barca. They can command consistent silverware, the highest wages and the prestige of playing for the biggest clubs in the game. The real question should be why wouldn’t any of our players not want that? With regards to Aubermenrang, I think he is solely at Woolwich for the money. It’s no secret that they pay substantially higher salaries than Dortmund.




The club has been obsessed by the CL since 2004 and became largely defined by this throughout this period. This isn’t a relevation Levy has spoken countless times of his desire for us to be CL club. And if finishing 4th becomes the central priority then is it any wonder that we do not win anything. Just look at our conduct in the Europa League during that time, despite us being one of the wealthiest clubs in this tournament we have consistently fielded weakened teams and had 2 managers openely state this is a distraction. When the club is consistently underachieving in the so called lesser tournaments but consistently over archiving in the league ( relative to its resources) it’s abundantly clear where it’s priorities lie.





The FA Cup has absolutely saved Wenger you only have to listen to the Woolwich fans to know that. It also completely killed the decade with no silverware argument that was levelled at them which is also being levelled at us now. The UEFA Cup is their last hope now and if he wins that then he will clearly continue at the club.

What a load of shit. I can’t believe what you’re saying. And please answer my questions about Sevilla and Woolwich you shifty cunt
.

 

[Boltonspur]

ok what should we do then?

you've told us we cant compete with United financially
you've said we aren't doing things the right way - even though we are building a bigger stadium and getting extra-football revenue streams in

do we follow Nottingham Forest philosophy? after all they won the league then 2 x European cups
do we follow Leicester citys philosophy? they won the league
do we follow Arsenals philosophy? they won 3 cups as you have mentioned - hey maybe we can get arsene wenger at spurs as I'm sure he will be available in the summer and hes won more than the existing manager with his loser philosophy......

Was about to ask the same.
We can prioritise the cups but we could still end up getting eg City (an elite club) in the final & a drubbing.
And if we aren’t in the CL, then elite level players won’t come to us unless it’s for a fucking huge payday (Aubameyang) - do we want a team full of cunts like that? I don’t.
Players want to play in Europe’s premier competition. A cup or two would be great, but we stand a better chance of winning them if we have a strong squad, which we can only maintain with expansion & continued consistency as a top 4 club.
Oh for fucks sake. I promised myself I wouldn’t get into this nonsense again tonight.
:lennon:

 

[Mensa]

The FA Cup has absolutely saved Wenger you only have to listen to the Woolwich fans to know that. It also completely killed the decade with no silverware argument that was levelled at them which is also being levelled at us now. The UEFA Cup is their last hope now and if he wins that then he will clearly continue at the club.

I will just deal with this completely wrong point

3/4 years ago Wenger IN and OUT amongst Woolwich fans was pretty even and the "IN's" were maybe in majority

3 FA cups later they miss out on the champions league once and the OUT's are by far the majority

So its the exact opposite of what you are saying, the FA cup has not saved him, missing that CL spot has turned up the heat on him everywhere, the board and in the stands and the only reason the UEFA cup will save him.... is because you get CL football - thats the only reason

 

[BernardMatthews]

 

[Sunglasses Ron]

The point is being completely missed. Listen let’s take Spurs out of this because having a mature conversation about the power structure of the game and our standing in this is clearly too much for some. It really shouldn’t be but blatantly is.

Quite simply an elite club is a club that can purchase an elite side. If anyone can accept the statement that Chelsea or City bought the title then they can accept and understand the concept of this, so I really do not understand why many are being deliberately obtuse about it. These clubs purchase world class talents, they pay the highest premiums to build their teams. And their revenue base ensures that they can consistently do this.

A non Elite club is one that cannot buy an elite side, they have to construct this through youth, clever purchases and good coaching. They also have to contend with the elite clubs poaching their talents because they do not have to cultivate talent in the same way.

The contrast is that it’s far easier to purchase an elite side that it is that it is to build one. It’s even more difficult for non elite sides to maintain this when they do build this - as the likes A Madrid, Dortmund and Monaco attest. Not only do these teams not have the resources to retain their best players they do not have the resources to replace them like for like which is they never attempt to- the fees are used to bring a number of players in.

Take A. Madrid for example a couple of years ago they had an elite side, they won La Liga got to a CL final beating a number of elite clubs along the line. Did that make them an elite club? No it didn’t. Did they maintain this success? No. Did the additional revenues and new stadium reposition the club as a premier club? No. So it doesn’t matter that they beat a number of elite sides along the way because it doesn’t alter the fact that the likes of Real and Barca maintain the ability to achieve consistent success whereas A. Madrid do not.

Now say this to A. Madrid supporter and this will be met with venom and vitriol but that doesn’t make it any less true. This isn’t a radical statement and it is blatantly obvious to anyone who follows the financial side of the game but clearly very few actually do.

This Atletico chatter would probably hold more weight if they weren't second in La Liga and currently above the elite Real Madrid.

 

[For better or worse]

i'm sure we all want the same, there are however more bragging rights to saying you are playing in the top league in Europe over the FA cup - fact.

If Woolwich won the FA Cup and we got a CL spot which fans would want their manager gone?

Looking back at those mid-table seasons when we were a joke saying "but we are a big team, honest" seems like a distant memory.

I worry that the nature of sport expects a better season year after year but when you've climbed as high as we have with the resources at hand it's very difficult to make that last step.

The whole player transfer thing is a pissing contest anyway, why do you think Naymar went to PSG? It was only so they could say "look we're the richest club in the World". They could have spent their money more wisely if they were thinking about results. Look how unsettled they are now... All because of bragging rights!

We are never going to be in a position to piss money away showing off, some of our top players will leave but less than before. We will find replacements, sometimes they will work, sometimes they wont.

We are but a lava lamp gracefully climbing, dropping and climbing once more.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

This is the problem with your argument, it's not to make us United, Real or Barca, it's to make sure we are in a better financial place than we were before. The argument cannot be that the new ground will suddenly make us bigger than well established super clubs, that isn't happening. The financial argument is that it makes the club stronger and more likely to remain as a Premier League club, more likely to retain players and harder to extract players away from than we already are. You can't expect to make us the world's biggest sporting franchise, to expect that is delusional. Be careful here my argument is not that the new stadium will allow us to buy players for £200m that's not happening because that kind of money comes from an Oil Well or state aid.



That is an opinion, it's not one that is entirely proven, how a team finds and retains their players is not predicated entirely on money. You can see this by the squad we currently have, they have not cost us necessarily high transfer fees and they are not the best paid players in the league, yet here we are. Not every player is soley motivated by money and we have advantages beyond just the money, we have a respected manager, we have a base in London (which is attractive to most non english players), we have a bonus structure. Our players aren't pleading poverty and it is inevitable that we will not keep all our talent but we'll also buy well and develop our players, those players in our development squad will see that if they're good enough they will play, unlike some of those languishing or being loaned out by Chelsea & City, it's not delusional to believe we can't retain more of our talent as time goes on. As for honours, do you think that's what attracted Aubemayang to the Emirates? Also we might lose Alderweireld, you know what? If we do, horrible as it will be to lose him, we'll replace him, that's life.



The qualification culture? Seriously! They have been 17 years, do you think we had a qualification culture in 2001? Were we winning things? Had we been pretty much shocking for the decade leading up to that point, barely qualifying for Europe, barely surviving in the Premier League? If someone spoke to you back then and said, 'this lot are going to give us a team that can challenge for the league, they're going to build a new training centre that looks world class, a new stadium and guess what, you're even going to finish above Woolwich.. Would you be arguing about a 'qualification culture'?? I don't get it..

The horrible truth is we may not win a thing and you have to ask yourself is it better that we've had a bloody good go at it with a quality squad or do we have to regard it as another failure? You say that Woolwich have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, that isn't saving Wenger, do you not see? Once you win the FA Cup that will never be enough, you might say it's a nice problem to have, I am not so sure.

 

[ArtyB]

Came in for news on the stadium naming rights....somehow fell into a symposium on finance structures in modern football...

 

[coughymachine]

So its the exact opposite of what you are saying, the FA cup has not saved him, missing that CL spot has turned up the heat on him everywhere, the board and in the stands and the only reason the UEFA cup will save him.... is because you get CL football - thats the only reason

There was a lovely quote from a Telegraph article Guido 🇺🇦 posted after our game against Juventus which, whilst not saying exactly the same thing, certainly adds weight to this argument.

Huddled away in a corner of the ground, Tottenham's supporters wildly celebrated a breathtakingly brave and authoritative performance that had brought the Champions League quarter-finals tantalisingly into reach.

One thought that almost certainly didn't cross the mind of anyone associated with Tottenham in Turin was: "Man, I wish we were in the Carabao Cup final next Sunday.

 

[jimmyriggle]

They've been getting a bit of stick following the recent TV pick announcement and their statement on it. Whilst I really appreciate all the amazing work they do (for free!) I do think that Kat and Martin need to stop being so triggered and airing their dirty laundry on twitter. I understand it must be incredibly down-heartening to work so hard and still get abuse from people, but the whole martyr schtick is a bit unnecessary

 

[Steed_Train]

They've been getting a bit of stick following the recent TV pick announcement and their statement on it. Whilst I really appreciate all the amazing work they do (for free!) I do think that Kat and Martin need to stop being so triggered and airing their dirty laundry on twitter. I understand it must be incredibly down-heartening to work so hard and still get abuse from people, but the whole martyr schtick is a bit unnecessary

What they said for the non-twitter folk?