If you sell a ticket to a fellow Spurs fan at above face value then your a bit of a prick
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Just throwing this out there...
I know a guy with severe mental health issues, who will never be able to work. He's had a season ticket for years. With the recession and the tories cutting down on benefits, and season ticket prices going up, he now struggles to pay for it. Sometimes he sells his ticket for a couple of games (e.g. Woolwich and Chelsea), makes up half the price of the season ticket, and that way is able to renew next season. Otherwise he would have to forfeit what is one of the only pleasures in his life.
He's Tottenham through and through, and is also the kind of guy who would give you his last fiver...not materialistic at all, a very generous person. He'd never do it if he was in a better financial situation.
I personally don't judge or blame him for selling his ticket sometimes. Though I agree with people's comments about Stub Hub, and I think that generally speaking you should never sell above FV to a fellow yid, and I never have done. Having said that I would blatantly be doing the same as my mate if I was in his position.
I know a guy with severe mental health issues, who will never be able to work. He's had a season ticket for years. With the recession and the tories cutting down on benefits, and season ticket prices going up, he now struggles to pay for it. Sometimes he sells his ticket for a couple of games (e.g. Woolwich and Chelsea), makes up half the price of the season ticket, and that way is able to renew next season. Otherwise he would have to forfeit what is one of the only pleasures in his life.
He's Tottenham through and through, and is also the kind of guy who would give you his last fiver...not materialistic at all, a very generous person. He'd never do it if he was in a better financial situation.
I personally don't judge or blame him for selling his ticket sometimes. Though I agree with people's comments about Stub Hub, and I think that generally speaking you should never sell above FV to a fellow yid, and I never have done. Having said that I would blatantly be doing the same as my mate if I was in his position.
Disagree, your a bit of a prick if you don't sell a ticket for as much as you can get for it. I would happily sell a ticket for 10 times the face value to my best mate if he was prepared to pay for it. We live in a capitalist society where the value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay for it, and long may it continue !!
If Levy put the price of an average ticket up to £300 per game would you be happy with that? Supply and demand and all that.
It's what has already happened. We have the 2nd highest average ticket prices in the world, yes, the world, and only that lot up the road are worse. Stubhub supply a good service, the buyer is happy because they get to watch game they would have not have seen otherwise, the seller retrieves his money (sometimes at a profit), Spurs get a cut, and Stubhub make some dosh. The only people who don't like the idea are those who simply think all tickets should be sold at face value, and why, I really don't know. What you must not think is that most people who sell their tickets on Stubhub make money. After selling fees it is very difficult to make a profit, unless we are playing a very big side and are in very good form. I wanted to go to the Chelsea game last year, but I rent out my season ticket. I went on Stubhub and paid £10 less than face value. I have sold my tickets through Stubhub about 6 times, and on only two occasions have been able to make a small profit. In other words, our tickets don't have the demand many people think they have.
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So you would be happy to pay £300 per ticket? Supply and demand and all that..........
Your missing the point. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to, but that's life. If Levy could get £300 now, he would, but he knows he can't. I believe the current prices are far to high for the average man, but as long as people pay it, Spurs will keep increasing the prices. Like I said, most matches you can get tickets on Stubhub for no more than face value, just leave it late.
Let me put it another way. Would you sell your car for £4k because you think that is what it is worth, or would you sell it to someone for £5k because that's what they are prepared to pay ?
But that is the point. Remove StubHub you remove "some" of the third party market. The old system you returned your ticket to the club and got your money back less admin. Now everyone is a dealer in a market has been created when there wasn't one before.
I doubt very much, that you would have a 'best mate.'
It didn't work like that. Spurs gave you about 65% of the ticket price back, against next years season ticket. If you didn't renew your ST you lost the money. The only party who benefited were Spurs. It was a complex and unsuccessful system that wasn't used much by ST holders, and that is why there are so many more tickets available on Stubhub. Like I said before, very few ST holders make money selling tickets this way
Gonna fess up and admit I use SH sometimes when I can't go to a game. There's no exchange any more and I don't see how Twitter works with a stadium access card. First of all I ask around the people I know who might want it but if there's none available then SH is the simple no-fuss solution given that the ticket exchange is gone. I sell for slightly above face value which some of you will claim means I am ripping off fans. But the way I see it is like this:
Let's say a ticket has a face value of £50 and let's make the buyer and seller percentage both 20% to make the maths easier (in reality they charge slightly more to the buyer than the seller).
If I put it on for £50 I am really putting it on for £40 cos of SH seller cut. In reality the seller is selling for £40, SH is adding £20 and the buyer is paying £60. That's the actual transaction. The fact the buyer has notionally placed an advert for £50 is just semantics, in reality they are offering it for £40 with a £20 markup.
I don't like to sell at a loss so i will sell a £50 ticket so I get back £50. In other words I offer it at about £62. SH sells for £74 and pays me £50.
To me its a face value sale just that all the percentage fee is on the buyer. SH is ripping them off not me. From the prices I see them offered for I am pretty sure that many ST holders work this way, in other words they pass the fee onto the buyer.
Thing is that a sale such as this goes in the roll up statistics that THST has seen as selling above face value. But it's not all ST holders selling at £300 per ticket. Whilst there are probably a few go for silly money, most are sold at face value plus a buyer-pays-whole-fee amount.
I think most ST holders don't want to rip fans off but don't want to be the muggins that shares the fee. I admire principled fans like Mrs P, and feel a bit soiled using SH but end of the day I can't really throw money away like that and SH is the only 100% secure safe way that the club lets me sell the ticket if I can't find a mate to take it.
Last of all I would add it's not always possible to make face value back. Some of the less desirable midweek fixtures are set by market forces at a low price.
TLDR I don't like SH but I have to use it sometimes and I don't like SH ripping me off.
Let's say a ticket has a face value of £50 and let's make the buyer and seller percentage both 20% to make the maths easier (in reality they charge slightly more to the buyer than the seller).
If I put it on for £50 I am really putting it on for £40 cos of SH seller cut. In reality the seller is selling for £40, SH is adding £20 and the buyer is paying £60. That's the actual transaction. The fact the buyer has notionally placed an advert for £50 is just semantics, in reality they are offering it for £40 with a £20 markup.
I don't like to sell at a loss so i will sell a £50 ticket so I get back £50. In other words I offer it at about £62. SH sells for £74 and pays me £50.
To me its a face value sale just that all the percentage fee is on the buyer. SH is ripping them off not me. From the prices I see them offered for I am pretty sure that many ST holders work this way, in other words they pass the fee onto the buyer.
Thing is that a sale such as this goes in the roll up statistics that THST has seen as selling above face value. But it's not all ST holders selling at £300 per ticket. Whilst there are probably a few go for silly money, most are sold at face value plus a buyer-pays-whole-fee amount.
I think most ST holders don't want to rip fans off but don't want to be the muggins that shares the fee. I admire principled fans like Mrs P, and feel a bit soiled using SH but end of the day I can't really throw money away like that and SH is the only 100% secure safe way that the club lets me sell the ticket if I can't find a mate to take it.
Last of all I would add it's not always possible to make face value back. Some of the less desirable midweek fixtures are set by market forces at a low price.
TLDR I don't like SH but I have to use it sometimes and I don't like SH ripping me off.
I think what makes it different from other transactions within a capitalist society, is that we are a community, so that's where the idea comes from that the bonds between us as supporters are worth something more than a monetary sum. I know you see us as a community and not just a corporation, because I remember you saying you were active against the Stratford move.
I guess it goes back to football playing into our tribal instincts. Just because we live in a capitalist society now does not mean that capitalism has to intrude into every domain of life...and in fact it would be fucking terrible if it did...nothing would have meaning.
You are effectively getting back the price you paid for the ticket so I would agree that you are selling it for face value.
Cheers for info, had an ST a while back but never used the clubs exchange feature. Still haven't changed my mind on SH, only thing that would is if you could use it to only sell at face value and only sell to members, even then being a member does mean they are genuine Spurs fans.
How could SH exist if you restricted sales to face value?
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and the idea that we live in a capitalist society and a ticket is and should be worth whatever someone is willing to pay - that's a pretty dangerous way of looking at it. All you have to do to see how bad that sentiment is is look at the American sports ticket market. In Memphis we have the lowest prices in the NBA and I can't get a decent seat for less than $100 most times. Face value is really only printed on NFL tickets to mock you, there's really no way to buy a ticket for anything less than 200%+ which is why I haven't been to a game in over a decade. Even tickets for college games can be pretty ridiculous. All of this probably influences my lack of hatred towards SH, as we're pretty conditioned to it here.
And the value on friendship means nothing to you? Or less than cash anyway?
Guys, I got 2 tickets for the Sunderland game. My plans have changed and we're not able to make it to WHL on the 18th Sept so PM me if you're interested! Seats in G