I'm gay. I'm having a ticket over you!

[eanN17]

I tend to differ between basic human rights (as in the equality of gender, antirasicm etc) and politics where laws still are shaped.

That the LGBT flag is being used shouldn't work as an excuse to get political messages across. That the flag was 'defined' as political flag has also something to do with when and in which circumstances the flag was created.

Not sure I get my message across here. I just don't think you can compare the flag to potentially tense political issues.

I think this is something we as fans should welcome and embrace instead of looking for pseudoreasons to why we shouldn't have the flag there.

 

[Paul THFC]

Although there are plenty on display at away games in England and abroad, are the St George and Union Jack flags also banned from the Lane nowadays?

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I tend to differ between basic human rights (as in the equality of gender, antirasicm etc) and politics where laws still are shaped.

That the LGBT flag is being used shouldn't work as an excuse to get political messages across. That the flag was 'defined' as political flag has also something to do with when and in which circumstances the flag was created.

Not sure I get my message across here. I just don't think you can compare the flag to potentially tense political issues.

I think this is something we as fans should welcome and embrace instead of looking for pseudoreasons to why we shouldn't have the flag there.

Agree with the bold part, and I don't think anyone is suggesting the flag shouldn't be there, only that the club should not be so strict on other flags.

 

[Éperons]

Very good post, which clears up the confusion. I agree, except, as mentioned previously, I would rather the club would just allow any flag (though perhaps you don't disagree with this).

Thanks.

I think that the club should explicitly say that it reserves the right to not allow a flag to be unfurled at the ground for any reason whatsoever. It's their ground; let them decide each flag on its own merits.

Any old flag, and then you'll end up with Pravyi Sektor flags like at Žalgiris matches here in Vilnius.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Thanks.

I think that the club should explicitly say that it reserves the right to not allow a flag to be unfurled at the ground for any reason whatsoever. It's their ground; let them decide each flag on its own merits.

Any old flag, and then you'll end up with Pravyi Sektor flags like at Žalgiris matches here in Vilnius.

I had to look up what Pravyi Sektor was, but I doubt you'd get that at Spurs. If you did it would only be the odd one. Personally, I hate how everything has to be okayed by the club. And in my view, it's our ground not theirs.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

I know there is a underlying flag issue, but the Proud Lilywhite flag is different in what it represents. Many gay people still feel alienated by football, and this is a start in changing that.

There are some issues where we as a fan-base should be united. I want Spurs to make a stand against homophobia and racism and applaud the introduction of the flag for one. These are not political issues, it is common sense to make sure people feel they can belong. Claiming that the Proud Lilywhite flag is political is making a problem where there is none. It's much more a symbol that tells you that everyone is welcomed here. There is a lot of homophobia still left in football, and we have got a long way to go. I want White Hart Lane to be a place where only one thing counts; if you love Spurs you belong there.

If football wants to change, it must start from the top. Staff/ players should be allowed to come out. This would change attitudes drastically . Supporters would become insignificant in the fight. Thinking supporters alone can change things is wrong. Supporters getting agro because of their sexual prefferance by morons. Morons will need to be educated outside football. I not sure what a flag would achive.

 

[eanN17]

If football wants to change, it must start from the top. Staff/ players should be allowed to come out. This would change attitudes drastically . Supporters would become insignificant in the fight. Thinking supporters alone can change things is wrong. Supporters getting agro because of their sexual prefferance by morons. Morons will need to be educated outside football. I not sure what a flag would achive.

You say it must come from the top - and to be frank this is what is happening. Clubs like Spurs and WW officially supporting gay supporters groups is a very good start and the flag is a visible symbol of the club's support. It's a process and I think more developments will come.

 

[LarryCatt]

I had to look up what Pravyi Sektor was, but I doubt you'd get that at Spurs. If you did it would only be the odd one. Personally, I hate how everything has to be okayed by the club. And in my view, it's our ground not theirs.

Kind of agree with that, and the sentiments, but it's not, so we swallow it

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Kind of agree with that, and the sentiments, but it's not, so we swallow it

I think I know what you mean. The ground both is and isn't ours.

 

[Joe Clash]

I think I know what you mean. The ground both is and isn't ours.

Like the park when we were kids. *No Ball Games*

 

[Mr S Pippo]

You say it must come from the top - and to be frank this is what is happening. Clubs like Spurs and WW officially supporting gay supporters groups is a very good start and the flag is a visible symbol of the club's support. It's a process and I think more developments will come.

players should be allowed to openly show they are gay. The club would only say whats expected and PC about supporters. There are many gay players in the PL . They are repressed by the club / the sport and this should be where change is made. Supporting supporters is nothing short than what's expected.

 

[Joe Clash]

players should be allowed to openly show they are gay. The club would only say whats expected and PC about supporters. There are many gay players in the PL . They are repressed by the club / the sport and this should be where change is made. Supporting supporters is nothing short than what's expected.

I think they are 'allowed', it's just sad that gay players feel it would be harmful to their career, and they're probably right.

 

[Astro]

I think they are 'allowed', it's just sad that gay players feel it would be harmful to their career, and they're probably right.

Shared showers mate

I'm just joking there, yeah it's a shame

 

[LarryCatt]

Like the park when we were kids. *No Ball Games*

That's exactly it!

 

[Yorkshire_Spurs]

Arguing about a flag, pathetic

Flags are the cause of all major wars in history.

Fact.

Probably.

Spoiler

No research was done

 

[Benny]

players should be allowed to openly show they are gay. The club would only say whats expected and PC about supporters. There are many gay players in the PL . They are repressed by the club / the sport and this should be where change is made. Supporting supporters is nothing short than what's expected.

I know you mean statistically there 'should be' many gay players, but the chances are that isn't true.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I know you mean statistically there 'should be' many gay players, but the chances are that isn't true.

Why not?
I reckon there's a lot of gay players, but that a lot less than 10% of fans are gay. I think that the perception and (to a lesser extent) the reality of football fans being a load of straight males with some homophobic attitudes would put off gay people from being fans. But I think a lot of people don't know their gay until they're 10-12 years old. These days you need to already be an excellent footballer at that age if you want to go on to have a career in the game. If you are an excellent footballer aged 10-12, that is likely to be a major source of self-esteem in your life, and I think you'd be very likely to carry on playing and trying your best regardless of your sexuality. Thoughts of homophobia within the football world would barely occur to such a youngster, in my opinion.
If 10% of the population are gay...my guess would be 10% of footballers are too...but I would guess only 1% of fans are gay- though I'd guess many more are bi or have some same sex attraction.

 

[Benny]

palmers_green_yid

The odds of a player becoming a Premiership footballer are so low already that when you add in the 'dressing room' culture that will have put off many gay players, I struggle to see how there could be '10%' within the Premiership.

I agree with the basis that the player will have needed to be excellent by 10-12 years old (typically around the time sexuality starts coming into your life), but from then until you're 16 being gay will definitely be a reason to be mocked at this moment in time. Perhaps in the near future as children grow up in an environment that doesn't care whether you're gay or straight, we'll see more players open about their homosexuality.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

palmers_green_yid

The odds of a player becoming a Premiership footballer are so low already that when you add in the 'dressing room' culture that will have put off many gay players, I struggle to see how there could be '10%' within the Premiership.

I agree with the basis that the player will have needed to be excellent by 10-12 years old (typically around the time sexuality starts coming into your life), but from then until you're 16 being gay will definitely be a reason to be mocked at this moment in time. Perhaps in the near future as children grow up in an environment that doesn't care whether you're gay or straight, we'll see more players open about their homosexuality.

IMO such a player would just keep quiet about their sexuality, and therefore would not be mocked. If they had coaches, parents, friends etc telling them "you could be the next Gareth Bale" and all the social benefits that come with being an excellent footballer at that age, they are very likely to keep their sexuality a private thing and concentrate on the football. It is hard enough for a young gay person to come out anyway- football would provide the perfect excuse simply to avoid doing so. If you're football mad and you've got the thing which is probably most valued at the age of 10-14 i.e. real footballing talent, I think any concerns about dressing room culture would be relegated to the back of your mind. Trust me, for young people with serious aspirations to be a footballer, football becomes the most important thing in their life and everything else will always come a poor second; this is why so many footballers have breakdowns when they have to retire, they've never really worked out who they are off the pitch...they are frozen in time as a 10 year old child who is valued by most people for one thing and one thing only.

My opinion is based partly on my best friend when growing up. He was an excellent swimmer, with a good chance of going very far, Olympics etc. His family and friends- including me- had no idea he was gay until he got an injury aged 16, and could no longer swim. Only then did he confront the issue of his sexuality. In a way the injury was a blessing, he said himself he may not have come out or even really acknowledged his feelings until years later otherwise.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

I know you mean statistically there 'should be' many gay players, but the chances are that isn't true.

Statistically there 'should be' many gay players in the PL. The fact is, there are gay players in the PL - no official census has been done but at a guess, there are many. We could all name some or maybe many gay footballers past and present and all be surprise with some names that are mentioned?