We could have pulled Palace apart in the first half if we were quicker with our thoughts, passes and runs.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
We could have pulled Palace apart in the first half if we were quicker with our thoughts, passes and runs.
Thomas Tuchel on Expected Goals, unexpected goals and how to stop individual errors costing Chelsea
Its very untypical for any team who fights for top three to do these kind of mistakes. Thomas Tuchel talks to Sky Sports about searching for answers to Chelseas sudden defensive fragility. Watch Chelsea vs West Ham live on Sky Sports Premier League from 1pm on Sunday; kick-off 2pm.
On the other hand, we create a lot of chances, in the “expected goals” we are still second behind Man City in the Premier League, but far from them in the ones we actually scored. This problem has been going on throughout the season.” - Klopp.
Never mind Jeff Stelling’s derision, expected goals – xG – is here to stay | Football | The Guardian
Real football men vs the nerdy analytics crowd … opinion is wildly divided over the new metric cited by Arsène Wenger but hated by Jeff Stelling and his Soccer Saturday old pros
amp.theguardian.com
It all sounded good but my takes would be
Setting up with 3/5 at the back actually gave them the best chance to get something out of the game
Villa were tired. Not just because of the Ajax Thursday away tie but because they've played lots of games this season. I make it 42 to our 30 (?). 9 El Thursday Nightio with 5 away.
We've got a bigger and better squad, we should be fresher.
They've got injuries now, almost all of ours are back now.
If they'd set up with a high line v Son and Johnson (and we could also have started with Werner) they could have been 2 down in 10 minutes.
Looks like Emery was playing for Villa getting a goal against our high line before we'd had a decent chance on goal. And actually they had a couple of breaks against us in the first half, and we didn't against them.
But by the end of the first half it sounded like they were tiring. They hadn't got that breakaway goal. We got stronger as they tired and 2 quick goals left them a mountain to climb. The red card meant that as long as we kept 11 on the pitch then game over.
Emery is a good tactician. He's won Europa cups which you don't do unless your tactics in the main aren't good.
With better finishing they might have got a lead. That gives them a chance to win, and a decent chance of getting a point and staying 5 pts ahead.
In the end it looks terrible for them, a 0-4, and losing their captain for 3 very losable games now. But I'd say it didn't make Emery wrong to try that. We are better than them and in the end the better team won. Not because Emery is a mug or screwed up.
And Emery is possibly a better tactician than Ange. He's got way more experience in the PL, he's got way more experience in Europe. Ange is still learning, I'd say he's getting better, but it's not his key strength.
Dead on. Pretty much the entire post.
I dare anyone to watch the Villa-Luton game a week before (they then had a tough mid-week game!) and tell me Emery wasn’t fully justified in altering his setup for a fully fresh, fully fit Spurs side.
Villa aren’t the side they were when they beat City. They’re crawling to the finish line.
Carragher’s analysis isn’t bad but I think it ignores context. It ignores that Emery knows more about the state of his team than anyone. He didn’t change it for a laugh, he did it because he knew where they were at.
Laptop coaches and stat fans make no sense to me. Use your eyes. On Sunday anyone watching that game (if they are not stupid)will know we dominated and were in control of the game.
If a stat wants to say otherwise then it’s wrong.
Yeah.
If Carragher was actually working at Villa under Emery rather than as a pundit, then I reckon he'd have gone 100% with Emery's game plan.
Just really clinical more like
I thought so, same thing happened against Man Utd at the start of the season.
Really clinical and decisive. Son especially just picking the correct pass or finish every single time. His decision making is so underrated, he’s the reason Jose/Conteball functioned to any sort of level even for a bit.
Meanwhile Villa had a break in the first half where picking a pass a second earlier sends Watkins clean through .. and even then when through Watkins decided to pass sideways stupidly.
Are you a serial killer?
Just the lack of ability to pick up on a joke. Makes me think you are hiding some deeply held psychopathic tendencies.
How Tottenham's aggressive press shut down Aston Villa's attacking threat
Tottenham's proactive approach on and off the ball isn't only easy on the eye, it's effective too…
theathletic.com
Since Ange Postecoglou took charge, the change of tactical scenery for Tottenham Hotspur fans has been hugely refreshing.
A proactive approach on the ball has been easier on the eye — a contrast to last season’s rigid attacking football under Antonio Conte. That’s also been the case off the ball.
Spurs’ high offside line looks risky, but it has been of great benefit this season. Improved counter-pressing has helped Tottenham defend against transitions while allowing them to break into the other direction, and the high press has made them tougher to play through.
When Spurs can’t break down an opponent, it’s their improved out-of-possession phase that helps them stay in the game. That was the case in Sunday’s 4-0 victory against Aston Villa, when Unai Emery’s 5-3-2 complicated things for Tottenham’s attack.
In the first half, Villa had the better chances, but they were mainly from set pieces or on the counter. In possession, Tottenham’s pressing stifled them and gave Postecoglou’s side control of the ball.
Against Villa’s back five, Tottenham’s front three pressed narrowly with Son Heung-min leading the charge. Behind them, James Maddison, Yves Bissoumaand Pape Matar Sarr (out of shot) man-marked Douglas Luiz, John McGinn and Youri Tielemans.
The idea was to split Villa’s build-up and force them down one side, where the player on the ball has no passing options and can’t pass it back to reset the attack. Starting the press, Son wouldn’t run directly towards Emiliano Martinez, but first move vertically…
… before bending his run to block the passing lane into Clement Lenglet and force Martinez to play to the other side. The narrow positioning of Dejan Kulusevski and Brennan Johnson positions them closer to Villa’s wide centre-backs…
… and this allows the Wales forward to press Ezri Konsa whose options on the ball are limited: Son is blocking the back pass to Martinez, while Bissouma and Maddison are marking McGinn and Douglas Luiz near the edge of the penalty box.
Konsa’s only viable option is to play the ball to Matty Cash, who is free because Destiny Udogie is late. Here, Villa’s right centre-back finds Cash, but Johnson’s pressure stops the attack after he fouls the right wing-back.
From the reset, it’s the same pressing situation: Maddison and Bissouma are marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn in midfield, Johnson and Kulusevski are in narrow positions to press Villa’s wide centre-backs at the right time, and Son is bending his run towards the ball to block the passing lane into Lenglet while pressing Martinez.
Son’s pressing angle forces Martinez to play the ball to Konsa, which is the trigger for Johnson to move towards Konsa…
… who once again has limited passing options: Son’s positioning is blocking the backpass to Martinez, Bissouma and Maddison are marking McGinn and Douglas Luiz and, this time, Udogie is ready to press Cash. Konsa tries to curl the ball into the right wing-back, but it falls closer to Udogie, who regains possession for Tottenham.
Against this Villa side, an aggressive press is risky because of Ollie Watkins’ pace and ability to attack the space after collecting a long pass. However, the profiles of Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven mean that Tottenham could match Watkins and Leon Bailey’s speed in a two-versus-two scenario.
This factors into the pressing, as it allows Postecoglou to use Pedro Porro and Udogie to press Villa’s wing-backs, which means that Tottenham’s front three can focus on Villa’s centre-backs.
In this example, Tottenham’s players are in their pressing positions and Son starts his movement vertically again…
… before once again bending his run to press Villa’s goalkeeper while blocking the passing lane to Lenglet. Meanwhile, Johnson is ready to press Konsa if Martinez plays the ball into him…
… and Maddison and Bissouma are marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn, forcing Martinez to play a long ball…
… which is easily headed away by Van de Ven.
In another example, Martinez’s central passing options are marked and Son moves towards Lenglet before arcing his run to press the Villa goalkeeper while blocking the pass into the centre-back…
With Johnson in position to press Konsa, and Maddison and Bissouma tightly marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn, Martinez goes long…
… but Romero intercepts the ball and plays it quickly to Son, who fails to find Johnson’s run behind the defence.
Tottenham’s pressing didn’t just stop Villa’s threat in the possession phase, it also created transitional situations that Spurs should have used better. Here, Tottenham start the press with Johnson, Kulusevski and Son moving towards Villa’s centre-backs.
A proactive approach on the ball has been easier on the eye — a contrast to last season’s rigid attacking football under Antonio Conte. That’s also been the case off the ball.
Spurs’ high offside line looks risky, but it has been of great benefit this season. Improved counter-pressing has helped Tottenham defend against transitions while allowing them to break into the other direction, and the high press has made them tougher to play through.
When Spurs can’t break down an opponent, it’s their improved out-of-possession phase that helps them stay in the game. That was the case in Sunday’s 4-0 victory against Aston Villa, when Unai Emery’s 5-3-2 complicated things for Tottenham’s attack.
In the first half, Villa had the better chances, but they were mainly from set pieces or on the counter. In possession, Tottenham’s pressing stifled them and gave Postecoglou’s side control of the ball.
Against Villa’s back five, Tottenham’s front three pressed narrowly with Son Heung-min leading the charge. Behind them, James Maddison, Yves Bissoumaand Pape Matar Sarr (out of shot) man-marked Douglas Luiz, John McGinn and Youri Tielemans.
The idea was to split Villa’s build-up and force them down one side, where the player on the ball has no passing options and can’t pass it back to reset the attack. Starting the press, Son wouldn’t run directly towards Emiliano Martinez, but first move vertically…
… before bending his run to block the passing lane into Clement Lenglet and force Martinez to play to the other side. The narrow positioning of Dejan Kulusevski and Brennan Johnson positions them closer to Villa’s wide centre-backs…
… and this allows the Wales forward to press Ezri Konsa whose options on the ball are limited: Son is blocking the back pass to Martinez, while Bissouma and Maddison are marking McGinn and Douglas Luiz near the edge of the penalty box.
Konsa’s only viable option is to play the ball to Matty Cash, who is free because Destiny Udogie is late. Here, Villa’s right centre-back finds Cash, but Johnson’s pressure stops the attack after he fouls the right wing-back.
From the reset, it’s the same pressing situation: Maddison and Bissouma are marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn in midfield, Johnson and Kulusevski are in narrow positions to press Villa’s wide centre-backs at the right time, and Son is bending his run towards the ball to block the passing lane into Lenglet while pressing Martinez.
Son’s pressing angle forces Martinez to play the ball to Konsa, which is the trigger for Johnson to move towards Konsa…
… who once again has limited passing options: Son’s positioning is blocking the backpass to Martinez, Bissouma and Maddison are marking McGinn and Douglas Luiz and, this time, Udogie is ready to press Cash. Konsa tries to curl the ball into the right wing-back, but it falls closer to Udogie, who regains possession for Tottenham.
Against this Villa side, an aggressive press is risky because of Ollie Watkins’ pace and ability to attack the space after collecting a long pass. However, the profiles of Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven mean that Tottenham could match Watkins and Leon Bailey’s speed in a two-versus-two scenario.
This factors into the pressing, as it allows Postecoglou to use Pedro Porro and Udogie to press Villa’s wing-backs, which means that Tottenham’s front three can focus on Villa’s centre-backs.
In this example, Tottenham’s players are in their pressing positions and Son starts his movement vertically again…
… before once again bending his run to press Villa’s goalkeeper while blocking the passing lane to Lenglet. Meanwhile, Johnson is ready to press Konsa if Martinez plays the ball into him…
… and Maddison and Bissouma are marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn, forcing Martinez to play a long ball…
… which is easily headed away by Van de Ven.
In another example, Martinez’s central passing options are marked and Son moves towards Lenglet before arcing his run to press the Villa goalkeeper while blocking the pass into the centre-back…
With Johnson in position to press Konsa, and Maddison and Bissouma tightly marking Douglas Luiz and McGinn, Martinez goes long…
… but Romero intercepts the ball and plays it quickly to Son, who fails to find Johnson’s run behind the defence.
Tottenham’s pressing didn’t just stop Villa’s threat in the possession phase, it also created transitional situations that Spurs should have used better. Here, Tottenham start the press with Johnson, Kulusevski and Son moving towards Villa’s centre-backs.
Under pressure — and with his nearest passing options being pressed by Kuluseveski and Sarr — Lenglet goes all the way back to his goalkeeper…
… and again, Son arcs his movement when pressing Martinez to block the pass to Lenglet, while Johnson moves closer to Konsa.
Son’s pressing angle forces Martinez to play the pass to Konsa, which is the trigger for Johnson to push forward…
… and press the right centre-back who can’t play the ball back to his goalkeeper because of the positioning of Son. Konsa tries to find McGinn, but Bissouma is marking him and Tottenham regain possession high up the field.
From this regain and the following one, Postecoglou’s side failed to strike on the transition, but when they did, it led to their second goal. After opening the scoring through Maddison, Tottenham’s intensity didn’t drop and their pressing paid dividends.
In the build-up to Johnson’s goal, the Wales forward presses Konsa as Kuluseveski moves closer to Pau Torres and Son adjusts his positioning to block the passing lane into Lenglet.
Behind them, Bissouma, Maddison and Sarr are marking McGinn, Douglas Luiz and Tielemans, which limits Konsa’s passing options. Under pressure from Johnson and unable to play the pass to Lenglet (out of shot) or Torres because of the positioning of Son and Kuluseveski, Konsa dribbles inside the pitch…
… and Johnson follows him, while Son adjusts his position to block the backpass to Martinez or Lenglet. This leaves Konsa with only two options in Tielemans and Torres (out of shot), who have Sarr and Kulusevski ready to press them. Konsa’s pass doesn’t find either, and Kulusevski intercepts the ball…
… to start the transition that ends with Johnson scoring to make it 2-0.
McGinn’s red card 12 minutes later made things easier for Spurs, who added two more goals towards the end of the game — but it was their pressing that limited Villa’s threat in possession and allowed them control of the ball when the match was even.
Tottenham’s proactive approach on and off the ball isn’t only easy on the eye, it’s effective too.
… and again, Son arcs his movement when pressing Martinez to block the pass to Lenglet, while Johnson moves closer to Konsa.
Son’s pressing angle forces Martinez to play the pass to Konsa, which is the trigger for Johnson to push forward…
… and press the right centre-back who can’t play the ball back to his goalkeeper because of the positioning of Son. Konsa tries to find McGinn, but Bissouma is marking him and Tottenham regain possession high up the field.
From this regain and the following one, Postecoglou’s side failed to strike on the transition, but when they did, it led to their second goal. After opening the scoring through Maddison, Tottenham’s intensity didn’t drop and their pressing paid dividends.
In the build-up to Johnson’s goal, the Wales forward presses Konsa as Kuluseveski moves closer to Pau Torres and Son adjusts his positioning to block the passing lane into Lenglet.
Behind them, Bissouma, Maddison and Sarr are marking McGinn, Douglas Luiz and Tielemans, which limits Konsa’s passing options. Under pressure from Johnson and unable to play the pass to Lenglet (out of shot) or Torres because of the positioning of Son and Kuluseveski, Konsa dribbles inside the pitch…
… and Johnson follows him, while Son adjusts his position to block the backpass to Martinez or Lenglet. This leaves Konsa with only two options in Tielemans and Torres (out of shot), who have Sarr and Kulusevski ready to press them. Konsa’s pass doesn’t find either, and Kulusevski intercepts the ball…
… to start the transition that ends with Johnson scoring to make it 2-0.
McGinn’s red card 12 minutes later made things easier for Spurs, who added two more goals towards the end of the game — but it was their pressing that limited Villa’s threat in possession and allowed them control of the ball when the match was even.
Tottenham’s proactive approach on and off the ball isn’t only easy on the eye, it’s effective too.
As I posted to Deuterz yesterday, there's a few that use the forum as a vehicle to have a pop at other posters. They're only a small minority though.
I understand that the forum is used as a place to vent frustrations, but
All plausible and absolutely cool as a counterargument. As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I'd not disagree that Emery is possibly a better tactician than AP, but it's one of those where I feel the jury is out. Personally, I don't hold with the idea that tactics are all about starting lineups and how a team is set up to play. There's a lot more nuance to that with in game adjustments or tweaks. So far, AP has only implemented one particular style of playing, because it is successful most of the time. However, I do think he has shown tactical acumen with the adjustments he's made as the game progresses.
Too little time really to make that call IMO.
As I posted to Deuterz yesterday, there's a few that use the forum as a vehicle to have a pop at other posters. They're only a small minority though.
I understand that the forum is used as a place to vent frustrations, but is it really that much to ask that these people keep their powder dry until the game is done? Plenty of time to sound off then, rather than losing the plot after 45 minutes. We don't get extra points for winning 2 halves, so why get so frustrated before the end game?
To be honest, it's not even the melting that irks, it's the fact that it becomes an attack on others that does my head in, whether it be the 'melters' doing the attacking, or those attacking the 'melts.'
Fair comment, and I can see his reasoning following the debate.
I still feel it was a mistake on his part but, conversely, it may have been an even bigger cock up had he not changed it.
Easy to pick a manager apart after the fact, when you have no idea what would have happened had he done it another way.
I just feel that having had decent showings against apparently better teams than us by trying to go toe to toe he shoulkd have stayed that way. The team have obviously been pretty well drilled in that style of play this year and apparently not much else. I think the learned behaviour would have stood them in better stead.
But like you say, impossible to know as there's only one chance at it. I'm just glad he chose the soak up and punt long option. Because turns out it was a shit o[ption.
Can't stop smiling, what a showing that was..
Crazy how a game have effect in days afterwards
Crazy how a game have effect in days afterwards