Woolwich @ Wembley - 2nd March - 1230KO

[r-u-s-x]

If it’s a shot on target or a ball into the box for a clear goal chance, and it’s stopped with the arm, it shouldn’t have to be deliberate.

In fact, no handballs are deliberate otherwise in would be a mandatory yellow card for every free kick awarded.

New advice on handball from next year says that's wrong, as long as arms are in a natural 'silhouette' not handball.... Although any attacker gets an advantage or goal using hands in the area and it will be handball regardless .

 

[Shades]

All makes the draw even more sweeter.. What Woolwich needed was a really soft Penalty awarded very late into the game to even up the "dubious" Penalty we got.. Oh wait.....

 

[r-u-s-x]

Which is why it’s a stupid rule imo.
You can still handball it deliberately with your arms by your side, or accidentally with your arm outstretched.
It’s the same offence.

The deliberate thing is a fallacy, because if it has to be deliberate then handballs given should all be a yellow.

I don't agree, footballers are shits they would be aiming or flicking towards hands if the rules changed

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I don't agree, footballers are shits they would be aiming or flicking towards hands if the rules changed

Soldado can't be accurate from a yard out! If an attacking player is that skilful he deserves a pen.

 

[sammyspurs]

For me I think it should be all in or all out law for handball, remove the interpretation, the preference being if it's hit your arm it's handball (remove the intention aspect) at least this way there is no doubt of the outcome.

They have just made some changes to it, but not enough IMO as it still has the officials having to make a judgement if the players "silhouette" is as it should be.

Well this is the thing...some rules are unwavable. We have Var delaying the game and ruling out goals because someones shoelace was in front the line, but stopping a goal on the line with your arm is not a penalty because he was a "silhoette" and "didnt mean it".

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Of course it does - on Saturday with VAR Kane would have been flagged offside - it was 200% obvious

:avbfacepalm:
You are as thick as pigshit! Have you not read the last 20 pages of this thread? Half the reffing fraternity have said it was absolutely spot on, the other half have said it wasn't a pen!

 

[mikes01666]

It is laughable to blame Kane for conceding the goal. Nuts.

No-one's blaming him (well not me anyway).

He lost the ball cheaply instead of getting a shot off. Five seconds later Ramasy is 1 on 1 with Lloris.

Poor cover and defending.

 

[mikes01666]

"silhouette"

Heard it all now. Doesn't this disadvantage Shaw, Higuain, Crouch, Shaquiri?

Referees to judge silhouettes? Have any of these rulemakers played (or at very least reffed?)

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

It was 100% a penalty and ultimately given by the ref, not VAR.

It was alerted by VAR, without VAR being present it would have been a corner kick. Even Ruiz who hit the volley thought it wasn't a pen as he rushed over to the corner to take a quick corner.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Heard it all now. Doesn't this disadvantage Shaw, Higuain, Crouch, Shaquiri?

Referees to judge silhouettes? Have any of these rulemakers played (or at very least reffed?)

It means hands by their sides not making yourself big... Hands where they should be

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Heard it all now. Doesn't this disadvantage Shaw, Higuain, Crouch, Shaquiri?

Referees to judge silhouettes? Have any of these rulemakers played (or at very least reffed?)

I haven't read the new rule in detail but think it's still got to do with whether a hand/arm is in a natural position or not, but they have removed this phrasing and replaced it with "silhouette". I really should find the time to read them but to be honest I'd rather poke cocktail sticks in my eyes first.

 

[sammyspurs]

No-one's blaming him (well not me anyway).

He lost the ball cheaply instead of getting a shot off. Five seconds later Ramasy is 1 on 1 with Lloris.

Poor cover and defending.

Kane definitely shares some of the blame for dilldallying. Our biggest issue up top, is that everyone seems to want the absolute perfect place to shoot. Son, Dele and Eriksen all do it too.
When was the last snap shot, or long range effort?

Shoot and its either 1-0 to us or a goal kick, but not 1-0 to them.

Shooting long range is underatted....well look at the goals in the Utd v Southampton game....De Gea beaten twice from 30yrds, while we tried to walk the ball in past him and played to his strengths

 

[r-u-s-x]

And whats to stop players players deliberately blocking a shot with his arms by his side.

He can still lean into the ball sideways

That's what the current rule does but people are unhappy with refs having to make the interpretation of intentional / deliberate.

The new rule allows blocking with arms by his side but also does not penalize when a ball is hit at you from a yard with no chance of moving. They cant think of a way (other than the current rules which people are unhappy with ) of resolving both and they have decided that they would rather have instances where players can block with hands by side (not a great deal of advantage gained as you cant make yourself bit) and not peanalise instances where they cant get out of the way. Its a decision I agree with.

 

[sammyspurs]

My approach would be to simplify rather than add nonsense like "silhouettes".

If you 'make yourself big' (not a 'natural' position) and it hits your hand it's an easy decision.

This is also a sillhoette

 

[mikes01666]

That's what the current rule does but people are unhappy with refs having to make the interpretation of intentional / deliberate.

The new rule allows blocking with arms by his side but also does not penalize when a ball is hit at you from a yard with no chance of moving. They cant think of a way (other than the current rules which people are unhappy with ) of resolving both and they have decided that they would rather have instances where players can block with hands by side (not a great deal of advantage gained as you cant make yourself bit) and not peanalise instances where they cant get out of the way. Its a decision I agree with.

Leave the law as it is (at least refs are used to it). Add VAR - see what happens. If it doesn't work, amend the law.

Otherwise if it improves next sesaon no-one will know whether it's the law change or VAR that has brought about the improvement.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Leave the law as it is (at least refs are used to it). Add VAR - see what happens. If it doesn't work, amend the law.

Otherwise if it improves next sesaon no-one will know whether it's the law change or VAR that has brought about the improvement.

A few laws (IMO) are already being changed to help VAR make decisions, which seems a bit backwards as VAR was meant to help enforce the rules.

Getting rid of intent is a way that makes it easier for VAR, the change for defenders has moved advice in interpretation into the actual law.

*Deliberate handball is still an offence even if the hands are by the side so it deals with the previous point.

 

[sammyspurs]

Best thing is how far inside the box Vertonghen was during the pen miss. Mate of mine is still fuming about it not being retaken. If we finish 3rd above Woolwich by 1 pt, it's going to be delicious for years to come. :vert:

If we had to draw, then I couldnt have picked a better way to do it

 

[ArcspacE]

It was alerted by VAR, without VAR being present it would have been a corner kick.

And that's exactly why VAR is there

 

[ArcspacE]

:avbfacepalm:
You are as thick as pigshit! Have you not read the last 20 pages of this thread? Half the reffing fraternity have said it was absolutely spot on, the other half have said it wasn't a pen!

Oh dear, grumpy old man in rant against technology shocker resorts to petty child calling

 

[ArcspacE]

Best thing is how far inside the box Vertonghen was during the pen miss.

I wonder if next season VAR calls that?