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You look at Grealish now. He’s a robot but he used to be this free spirit who’d thrive at running at players and was a joy to watch. I know he’s in a different position and playing against teams with everyone behind the ball but the joy has been coached out of him. He’s not better on the eye than Werner and that’s sad to say because he’s on another level talent wise. The modern day game is stifling players with real ability.
No one forced Grealish to go to Man City. If he's unhappy there, he can ask for a transfer.
 
TBH, I was a big fan of Kulu for a while.
But he's really gone backwards in a way.
His goals per game stats are up this season, but he's become awful to watch at times.

Ginola was criticised for his fitness levels by Graham and pushed out for that. Also his lack of tactical discipline.
Maybe that was around about the time that flair and expression started to be hammered out of the sport.
Then again, imagine telling Messi he needs to track back more, cover more miles, only pass into certain area's etc.
Doesn't bare thinking about really.
George Graham was ahead of his time...

:moursmall:
 
Managers like Pep and tactics like tikka taka have fucked the beautiful game up!
There is definitely an element of over coaching going on. I wonder how the likes of Zidane or Seedorf, Ronaldinho would have been if they grew up in this era, the very thing that made them great would probably be coached out of them
 
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A lot of the posts across the forum are really poisonous. We drew a difficult game away from home, the sky hasn't fallen for god's sake.

Time to take a break from here, it's no fun at the minute.

A few have been saying the same about other threads

Same old rhetoric and nonsense
 
Players that excel in 1on1 play and can play in tight spaces, wingers for example who can do this will take us up levels.
The 1vs1 dribblers can only take you so far you have to play to create a 1vs1 situation.

What happens if your opponent doubles up on this essential 1vs1 player?

We aren't isolating the opposition fullback with our wingers enough.
 
It’s hard to understand our fans sometimes…
We are 3/4’s of a season in to a rebuild form top to bottom,
Lost our record goal scorer.. scored more league goals than any season he was at the club…
Are set to finish higher than last season with more points….
We aren’t the finished article yet so we cannot expect them to go out and win every game.
Wham aren’t the worse team out there, two places below us and in a qf of a European competition.
Only negative last night was the timing of the subs sometimes a point is a point.
 
The 1vs1 dribblers can only take you so far you have to play to create a 1vs1 situation.

What happens if your opponent doubles up on this essential 1vs1 player?

We aren't isolating the opposition fullback with our wingers enough.

Our wide players get into plenty of 1v1 opportunities, what happens in our formation is that the full back drag the oppo's wide men into the middle of the pitch and leave our wingers 1v1 with their full backs, literally constantly happens in every attack, at the moment our wingers just don't have the capability to take their full backs on and they end up either losing the ball or pass backwards.

If they double up on our wide men then fine, that gives our midfielders a boat load of space to run free.
 
It’s hard to understand our fans sometimes…
We are 3/4’s of a season in to a rebuild form top to bottom,
Lost our record goal scorer.. scored more league goals than any season he was at the club…
Are set to finish higher than last season with more points….
We aren’t the finished article yet so we cannot expect them to go out and win every game.
Wham aren’t the worse team out there, two places below us and in a qf of a European competition.
Only negative last night was the timing of the subs sometimes a point is a point.
I agree on all points.
The probelm is,we got off to a flyer,so expection went sky high.
If we had started crap, people would be quite pleased where we are at the moment.
I am quitely confident we are going to be a decent side next season.
 
No one forced Grealish to go to Man City. If he's unhappy there, he can ask for a transfer.
That’s true but I bet he didn’t think he’d end up a left wing robot who comes back inside all game and pass the ball 10 yards max.
I think he knows that mate but maybe he’s happy being a bit part players because so many do nowadays. Status seems to be a bigger thing than playing as many games as possible as a footballer nowadays.
 
I agree on all points.
The probelm is,we got off to a flyer,so expection went sky high.
If we had started crap, people would be quite pleased where we are at the moment.
I am quitely confident we are going to be a decent side next season.

Not only the early goal but for the first 15-20 mins we were all over them and then it slackened off but yes we go on!
 
Our wide players get into plenty of 1v1 opportunities, what happens in our formation is that the full back drag the oppo's wide men into the middle of the pitch and leave our wingers 1v1 with their full backs, literally constantly happens in every attack, at the moment our wingers just don't have the capability to take their full backs on and they end up either losing the ball or pass backwards.

If they double up on our wide men then fine, that gives our midfielders a boat load of space to run free.
That's what supposed to happen but it didn't yesterday or against Fulham until late(game was already done)or against wolves.

It can get predictable and we get easily turned over because of it when we give the ball away especially due sloppy passing.

An excellent dribbling winger won't solve these issues in isolation. You still need to create the situation for them.

The winger to winger goals we see comes from good work beforehand was evident in the goal we scored yesterday, where we created a on rushing6 Vs 4 against them.it didn't happen again if I remember correctly (need to watch again to be sure)
 
That's what supposed to happen but it didn't yesterday or against Fulham until late(game was already done)or against wolves.

It can get predictable and we get easily turned over because of it when we give the ball away especially due sloppy passing.

An excellent dribbling winger won't solve these issues in isolation. You still need to create the situation for them.

The winger to winger goals we see comes from good work beforehand was evident in the goal we scored yesterday, where we created a on rushing6 Vs 4 against them.it didn't happen again if I remember correctly (need to watch again to be sure)

It did, watch how many times Werner passed back instead of initiating the full back for especially, Johnson was guilty of it a couple of times as well.

2nd half especially when we were camped up in their half, I lost count the amount of times we isolated players, a specialist in those situations would have taken a split second opportunity to go past past a defender.

We have been creating those situations all seasons, there's so much space in the wide areas of the pitch but our players just aren't natural at attacking the space.
 
There you go, mitigating...

How many months until it is acceptable to be critical then? Before we are allowed to moan about labouring to a 2-1 at home to a depleted Luton without having "3 points! 3 Points! It's all about the points at this stage of the season!*" thrown back at you?

Why does time in the job matter at all in this respect? If I look at the two squads I don't think there is much difference talent wise now, with my Spurs tinted specs I'd probably claim us better in many departments. So why should we accept grinding out points against sides that they are sweeping aside with ease? Because Arteta's been there longer? So? Football isn't some linear trajectory where if you just wait long enough everything just improves consistently, Arteta having 3 years behind him whilst Ange has not had a full one yet has no impact on the comparable squad strength as it stands today.

The "only 8 months in" mantra only really works as a defence whilst things can be seen to be improving, but right now we seem to be regressing. I'm starting to wonder whether things at the beginning of the season were actually only exciting because the players didn't know exactly what they were doing in the new system, leading to some exciting chaos ball at times.

What we are seeing now is just as boring as the boring football under Conte/Mourinho, it just seems a bit more palatable because we have the ball, so we can just whinge and moan that it's the other side's fault for being defensive.

You want to know why it's been a slog? Go and look back over the season's results, how many of those matches have you enjoyed watching? I'm not talking about being happy with the result at the final whistle, I mean actually enjoyed the 90 minutes?

It's subjective I guess, but I'll go back a little way from the present with my views:

West Ham - did not enjoy
Luton - did not enjoy
Fulham - did not enjoy
Villa - enjoyed
Palace - Could only follow on the BBC website, did not enjoy following the predictable 0-0 for ages and going a goal down though tbh...
Wolves - did not enjoy
Brighton - did not enjoy
Everton - did not enjoy
Brentford - did not enjoy
City (FA Cup) - did not enjoy
Man Utd - meh, seeing their results either side of this fixture it's difficult to come away from this without feeling disappointed. If we are where we think we are then we should have been schooling them and ultimately we didn't.
Burnley (FA Cup) - did not enjoy
Bournemouth - Another meh, there was more to enjoy than not iirc but at the end we gave up a goal, and then another which was chalked off for a dubious offside. About 2/3s of this game I would say it was really good but the end was more nervy than it should have been. I'll say enjoyed but there's a big asterisk, it probably wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that this winning by the skin of our teeth habit has been so prevalent throughout the rest of the season.
Brighton - did not enjoy
Everton - Similar to the Bournemouth one above, we were looking decent for a bit but then instead of keeping at them we just lost the initiative, but for a much bigger portion of the game in this case. Outside of a pretty fast start this was not an enjoyable watch.
Forest - Enjoyed, not exactly free flowing but a good solid away win.
Newcastle - Enjoyed, actually had forgotten about this one tbf, minor gripe is that I wish we'd kept going and smashed them by more because I can't stand them...
West Ham - did not enjoy.
City - Enjoyed, perhaps swayed by lack of expectation and last minute scenes...
Villa - Enjoyed, despite the result we played really well and should have been out of sight
Chelsea - Can't really grade it, came away feeling positive in a way, but also we lost 4-1 and a bunch of players from a position of being 1-0 up and in total control, feel like we lost this more than they won it.

I'll stop there because I think I've illustrated my point, the losses have been as annoying as a loss is ever going to be obviously, but the wins have been irritatingly tight for the most part. There have been things to enjoy throughout obviously, but not consistently enough, and mostly I've come away feeling relieved rather than pleased.



*It's amazing how this is apparently valid at every stage of the season btw...
That has to be one of the most entitled whinges I've ever read on here, and that is saying something on this site.

Well done sir, sterling effort.

Oh My God Wow GIF by 9Now
 
It did, watch how many times Werner passed back instead of initiating the full back for especially, Johnson was guilty of it a couple of times as well.

2nd half especially when we were camped up in their half, I lost count the amount of times we isolated players, a specialist in those situations would have taken a split second opportunity to go past past a defender.

We have been creating those situations all seasons, there's so much space in the wide areas of the pitch but our players just aren't natural at attacking the space.
Werner wasn't good yesterday apart from his work for Johnson goal but it felt like it was too late or the moment had already passed a lot of the time and we was trying to force the issue.

There was a good 5-10 minute period before Ange made his first couple of changes that we looked like we were going to create an opening

like I said I haven't seen it again but definitely felt like we was taking to long and they were getting it all men behind the ball.

I'm gonna have to put myself through it again now to see.
 
It did, watch how many times Werner passed back instead of initiating the full back for especially, Johnson was guilty of it a couple of times as well.

2nd half especially when we were camped up in their half, I lost count the amount of times we isolated players, a specialist in those situations would have taken a split second opportunity to go past past a defender.

We have been creating those situations all seasons, there's so much space in the wide areas of the pitch but our players just aren't natural at attacking the space.
I agree, it will be a big help.

I also noticed yesterday the lack of bodies in the box when we did cross it. We don’t have any presence in there. I’d love to see 3 or even 4 players darting in to the box to get on the end of a cross. That way, we could mix it up more too, have someone arriving on the penalty spot for that cutback, as well as across the 6 yard line.
 
But this is the thing...

We try to draw these sides out by playing it around at the back. This would give us the space to then quickly play through the opposition. This gets called boring.

If the team won't come out, then we have to engage them higher up the field. Fans then complain that the pitch is compressed.
Yup, so we do what we've been doing this season, move them around, keep them under pressure and, when the pressure becomes too much, we score in the main.

It doesn't, and won't, work every time, but it works far more often than it doesn't against a deep block.

Last season, we were the team using a low block and we detested it. Now we have teams doing it to us because they fear what we can do if they open up, and we're still beating the majority.

The problem here is that we're seeing the filth doing it, and expecting us to do the same in less than a quarter of the time.

It's entitled bollox.
 
A lot of the posts across the forum are really poisonous. We drew a difficult game away from home, the sky hasn't fallen for god's sake.

Time to take a break from here, it's no fun at the minute.
There are a couple of shit/embarrassing fans on this forum.. They spend all day everyday knocking one out to how great Woolwich are, then reach peak excitement if we don't win and jump on here to show their excitement and tell us again how great Woolwich are..if we win you of course dont see them....

john Thomas and that tool Deurtz are the worst fans I have ever seen from any club...Neither are spurs fans but some seem to fall for it.

No doubt this will get the odd little x, but that will be by the shit/embarrassing fans that I speak of/
 
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