Tottenham Hotspur v Chelsea (3rd December)

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Did we really expect anything better? The midfield was always likely to be a disaster from the start. Bentaleb and Mason v. Matic and Fabregas? Knock Soldado down again for the tough-tackling and terrier-like tracking back of Lamela? Despite that, if we had a proper goal scorer we would have been 2 up in the first 15 minutes, but young Harry still actually needs to add taking chances to his (very good otherwise) game. But Chel$ki are a very good team, absolutely the best that money can buy.

We WANT to win against the Sky four, but actually we don't NEED to in order to have a very good season. We do though need to stop losing to the likes of Stoke, WBA and Newcastle. That is why the next 4 games will define our season so much more than tonight.
 
This has probably already been posted but I can't be arsed to wade through this thread.


At the end of the day we can pretend like Bale, Modric, VDV and King are still around and we shouldn't be content with losing to Chelsea or whatever. But ultimately we're miles away from where we were a couple of years ago. That is depressing but we have some really young and exciting talent and you can see a way back towards those heights. It will take development, good coaching, smart buys, and some luck but I can still see a way back considering the young talent we have. It's frustrating that we are where we are but it really could be a lot worse considering the players we lost the last few years.
 
JDK said:
This has probably already been posted but I can't be arsed to wade through this thread.


At the end of the day we can pretend like Bale, Modric, VDV and King are still around and we shouldn't be content with losing to Chelsea or whatever. But ultimately we're miles away from where we were a couple of years ago. That is depressing but we have some really young and exciting talent and you can see a way back towards those heights. It will take development, good coaching, smart buys, and some luck but I can still see a way back considering the young talent we have. It's frustrating that we are where we are but it really could be a lot worse considering the players we lost the last few years.
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We didn't win at Stamford Bridge with those in the team, let alone without them.
 
JDK said:
This has probably already been posted but I can't be arsed to wade through this thread.


At the end of the day we can pretend like Bale, Modric, VDV and King are still around and we shouldn't be content with losing to Chelsea or whatever. But ultimately we're miles away from where we were a couple of years ago. That is depressing but we have some really young and exciting talent and you can see a way back towards those heights. It will take development, good coaching, smart buys, and some luck but I can still see a way back considering the young talent we have. It's frustrating that we are where we are but it really could be a lot worse considering the players we lost the last few years.
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I know what you are saying but I would like to point out, Modric was in the team and a far better player than Mason is at the same age. Bale was our best player at 23/24, its all very well putting young players in the team but if they aren't better than the players around them and more importantly the players they are playing against, you aren't going to get very far are you?
I guess what I'm saying is, to challenge the top 4 (assuming thats what we are aiming for) we need fair few TOP CLASS players, its not just as simple as throwing in some youngsters and expecting them to come good. If they are good enough they are old enough.
Again, not slagging off anyone, just pointing out we are well short when it comes to top quality (talk about obvious post of the year).
 
A good performance considering our limitations. The result was fair and we could have played for a year and never look like scoring after their first went in.
We seem to resemble a good African team at the World Cup. Can look good one day , awful the next but
when ever we are up against a real quality team we are found out. The small difference of that extra
level of quality is missing . We create little and lack the finesse to put our chances away against the best.
Results constantly prove this .
I think we are light years away of catching the best as buying outstanding proven quality is out of our reach .
We can build a team based on a core of academy players , which seems the "new project" as all other
Directions have failed , which will be rewarding morally if not successful , as the best will always buy the best. Still we can all live in hope .
 
at the end of the day that's the hardest match we'll play all season

the result is a shame as we got at them well from the off but a couple of stupid mistakes and you're 2 down away to this chav team, game over
 
Dru said:
I know what you are saying but I would like to point out, Modric was in the team and a far better player than Mason is at the same age. Bale was our best player at 23/24, its all very well putting young players in the team but if they aren't better than the players around them and more importantly the players they are playing against, you aren't going to get very far are you?
I guess what I'm saying is, to challenge the top 4 (assuming thats what we are aiming for) we need fair few TOP CLASS players, its not just as simple as throwing in some youngsters and expecting them to come good. If they are good enough they are old enough.
Again, not slagging off anyone, just pointing out we are well short when it comes to top quality (talk about obvious post of the year).
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Lamela and Mason are young and were paid to come in and be top end talent. Mason and Kane may not be ultra young but they are pretty inexperienced and for me you develop more depending on how much you play, not simply your age. Comparing them like for like to Bale and Modric doesn't make much sense. There aren't two players or people in the entire world who follow the exact same development path.

Sure, we still need add a decent amount of talent. But we trotted out an extremely young team (didn't even include Walker, Dier and a few others) and are going to continue to play a young side for the rest of the season. With more and more experience they could end up being substantially better than they are now. Modric and Bale weren't anywhere near what they eventually became in their first and second years playing for our first team which the vast majority of out squad is doing. It is extraordinarily doubtful they will ever be as good as those two but with the number of young players we have we could have some real quality in a couple of seasons.
 
JDK said:
Lamela and Mason are young and were paid to come in and be top end talent. Mason and Kane may not be ultra young but they are pretty inexperienced and for me you develop more depending on how much you play, not simply your age. Comparing them like for like to Bale and Modric doesn't make much sense. There aren't two players or people in the entire world who follow the exact same development path.

Sure, we still need add a decent amount of talent. But we trotted out an extremely young team (didn't even include Walker, Dier and a few others) and are going to continue to play a young side for the rest of the season. With more and more experience they could end up being substantially better than they are now. Modric and Bale weren't anywhere near what they eventually became in their first and second years playing for our first team which the vast majority of out squad is doing. It is extraordinarily doubtful they will ever be as good as those two but with the number of young players we have we could have some real quality in a couple of seasons.
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You are right Modric and Bale weren't as good as they have become (some of the best in the world), for me, Modric was way ahead of the likes of Mason, Bentaleb, Livermore and anyone else that has come through our academy since, I just have a slight problem with the pinning of hopes on these young shoulders. For me they aren't good enough to be starting in a team with top 4 aspirations and thats the crux of it.
Like I said, not slagging them off at all - I just find it grating when people talk about our team and top 4 in the same breath - we are miles away in my opinion and the only way to get back to challenging is by having some serious top level/world class talent in our starting 11.....and that isn't going to happen any time soon.
 
A decent display tonight. Looked sharp in first 20 mins and deserved to be ahead. Granted, we lacked a bit of invention and craft but up against superior opposition. Proud of the fact that we didn't capitulate after the second goal too.

Just happy to see a few signs of improvement and a bit of cohesion developing.
 
We went out with good intentions but the reality is that Chelsea are better than us in every position and in every contest on the pitch. Off it, they still remain a peculiar mixture of inbred white trash racists and nouveau international fans - probably the worst of any team in the UK. Our support was very good today, despite the escort - which was quite brilliant to watch (locals were fascinated) - keeping many of ours out at the start. I also saw a scuffle between our stewards and theirs afterwards, which was very weird, mainly due to Chelsea stewards assaulting a couple of our fans for no clear reason.
 
Not too disappointed about losing it's just how we lost. Started off so well, unlucky to hit the bar and then our player of the season (so far) decided to finally have a bad game and within 5 mins it's game over.
 
The thing that frustrates me and I'm pretty sure frustrates most of you is that we can see the ability out there but it just doesn't click or remain consistent from week to week. For me I think the only explanation is this is what you get when your transfer policy is built around signing mostly players with potential in their early 20s.

Part of the problem is the FIFA/FM lens of looking at things that we've all become accustomed to. When we get linked to a player that is like 25 or 26, I immediately think they guy is pretty old. Well no he's fucking not, that isn't old in the real footballing world. But playing video game football it's all about wonderkids and potential, we talk about it like this all the time jokingly but it has colored a lot of our thinking, including my own.

It's simple, it's really difficult to throw out the likes of Lamela, Kane, Mason, Eriksen, Bentaleb, Dier, Townsend Davies etc. and expect them to thrive immediately because they have bright futures ahead of them. Kane, Mason, Dier, and Bentaleb don't even have two seasons worth of appearances combined. Lamela barely played last season and really only had one full season at Roma. Eriksen basically has more experience than all of them combined. Even though I'd argue Lennon is a less talented than all of them, you can see he has a comfort, poise, and influence that the others lack just because he's been around the block.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball: when Terry made his Chelsea debut Ryan Mason was 8, Bentaleb was three! Branislav Ivanovic who came to England in 2008 has more Prem appearances than Eriksen, Vertonghen, Fazio, Chiriches, Mason, Bentaleb, Kane, and Lamela combined. 6 of Chelsea's 11 starters have played in a Champion's League final.

Ultimately, we talk about transitional seasons due to having a new manager but for me it is a transitional period because of the young players. Our transfer policy has been based around buying young talent, we've promoted four academy prospects in the last two seasons and it seems like more is on the way, and our supposed veteran leaders seem like the trouble makers. Fundamentally we are a team based around inexperienced talent. We need to stop thinking about them as fifa ratings and potential and remember a lot of them are young talents learning their craft. The trick or treat nature of this side will continue until our young talent reaches emotional and footballing maturity, that's the harsh reality.

As with all things we have to wait for time to work it's magic. It sucks but that is how it is. Chelsea are the perfect example of the value of experience and how development works in fits and starts (Matic for example). If we continue to rely on our young talent I'm certain we can end up with in the future.

Up the Spurs.
 
3-0 is disapointing. It should never be acceptable to be losing by such margins.

We played better away @ Woolwich so have to use that as the Bench marker for tonight.

Lamela is woeful. I personally do not understand how he started above Soldado and Chadli. For 30 million he is extremely poor value & surrenders possession too easily.

While some aspects of the play disappointed a great deal i felt the second half was not too bad. Good possession & game control. A little shy of confidence which was a shame to see, but understandable.

There were too big negatives tonight for me; Vertonghen. He got bullied by Dogpoo & the fall to the ground for the Remy goal was simply embarrassing, he only put his hand out on his chest !

Lloris. As good as he is he now has some serious "form"in these "bigger" games. Being beaten at the near post was not good enough tonight. His kicking....well sadly we have been here before, he is prone to some woeful kicking, that's probably why he is @ Spurs and not Madrid.

25 years and not even 1 fluke win. That is just astounding. I can see us getting this mob in the semi final or final of league cup ( should we make it ) at least we have beat them in the cups...although never @ their crap hole !

PS. Thank Fuck Kaboul was nowhere to be seen.
 
Dru said:
You are right Modric and Bale weren't as good as they have become (some of the best in the world), for me, Modric was way ahead of the likes of Mason, Bentaleb, Livermore and anyone else that has come through our academy since, I just have a slight problem with the pinning of hopes on these young shoulders. For me they aren't good enough to be starting in a team with top 4 aspirations and thats the crux of it.
Like I said, not slagging them off at all - I just find it grating when people talk about our team and top 4 in the same breath - we are miles away in my opinion and the only way to get back to challenging is by having some serious top level/world class talent in our starting 11.....and that isn't going to happen any time soon.
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It's not just the academy. It's our whole transfer policy that has been based around buying young players. If you aren't willing to pin hope on young shoulders like Eriksen, Lamela, Walker, Mason, Bentaleb, Dier, Davies, Rose, Kane, etc. then the club has no hope at all IMO. This is the club now, gambling that these youngster we've collected will fulfill some of their promise.

If not them then who? Kaboul, Fazio, Lennon, Soldado, Capoue, Adebayor? All decent players don't get me wrong but hardly hope for the future? Hope that the club will invest big or effectively? Not likely.

Our hope lies in our under 25 contingent and maybe 2 or 3 additions that will likely also be young. We need to hope the lottery tickets we have hit.
 
JDK said:
It's not just the academy. It's our whole transfer policy that has been based around buying young players. If you aren't willing to pin hope on young shoulders like Eriksen, Lamela, Walker, Mason, Bentaleb, Dier, Davies, Rose, Kane, etc. then the club has no hope at all IMO. This is the club now, gambling that these youngster we've collected will fulfill some of their promise.

If not them then who? Kaboul, Fazio, Lennon, Soldado, Capoue, Adebayor? All decent players don't get me wrong but hardly hope for the future? Hope that the club will invest big or effectively? Not likely.

Our hope lies in our under 25 contingent and maybe 2 or 3 additions that will likely also be young. We need to hope the lottery tickets we have hit.
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the problem is when one of these young talents do develop into top quality players they get sold to the highest bidder

then levy buys more youth, fires the gaffer and the transition starts again

it's a vicious fucking cycle

psg have already started the tapping up process for Eriksen and they've alot more money than sense
 
LeeMcl said:
3-0 is disapointing. It should never be acceptable to be losing by such margins.

We played better away @ Woolwich so have to use that as the Bench marker for tonight.
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Woolwich are one player away from being absolutely dreadful this season. If it weren't for Sanchez I'm not even sure they would be top half of the table. We drew against a shit side and got thumped by a team that's arguably in the top 3 or 4 in all of Europe. Pretty sure that if you're using Woolwich as a bench marker you should be much more concerned about the other matches we lost and not this one.
 
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