Ndombele - £55m
Clarke - £10m
Sessegnon - £25m
Lo Celso - £15m loan fee, rising to to c. £45m
= £105m - £135m
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Ndombele - £55m
Clarke - £10m
Sessegnon - £25m
Lo Celso - £15m loan fee, rising to to c. £45m
= £105m - £135m
We signed Sessegnon too. You know less than fuck all.
What decrease in revenue? please explain your confused thinking ....
Hardly confusing is it? This year we have CL and just got to a CL final. Next year we won’t even be in the competition (almost certainly now imho).
forgot sess admittedly, but that is not how accounting works. Add ons and Possible permanent fees can’t be booked against last year’s financials.
OK so as I said a few posts ago if that happens in 2020/2021 it impacts are ability to spend in 2021/22 by as much as 80 million if we miss out on Europe altogether ... which is why growing our commercial revenue currently at 134m to closer to Chelsea's 185m or Liverpool's 186m is so important ....
Kopspur
you also forget that whilst we may miss out on a Champions League revenue next year we still have a huge untapped market that will generate funds. The stadium and shirt sleeve sponsorship we have been holding back on. Add to that a continued brand development via the NFL in the states, any possible agreement that particular relationship could bring and we have clearly got abilities to grow our revenue streams in other areas should we miss out on top 4 which seems likely.520m in revenue is a huge step for a team that constantly manages its finances and in particular it's wages well. We have always heard that we won't spend beyond our means and it's for safeguard moments like the one we may have coming up, where previous Champions League earnings has remained untapped.
A year or two out of the top 4 doesn't batter us like (and I hate to say it but I'm going to
it did Leeds).We're in top financial shape, we'll probably break the record for profits for a second straight year so we have surplus we can rely on if we need to take gambles and none of that will come from avenues that we haven't organically developed ourselves.
In my opinion, with Levy being the ‘smart business man’ he is will plan for that and treat us as if we already have that revenue so we won’t ‘act like a big club’ (I’m sure this is what Poch was getting at) we will still act small time and not exceed some % of worst case revenue as our playing squad allocation.
After 20 years I feel confident in predicting that behaviour, would love to believe your prediction but it would mark a huge change in strategy and we’ve been told that was going to happen before and it never does, one summer of slightly increased spending after posting world record profits does not instil any faith in me at all that dan will suddenly do what it takes.
agree we need to up our commercials of course.
Wrote a bit to another thread but it should be mainly here I assume -
I think we can all agree that Levy is quite an astute businessman. He knows what he is doing.
If you take a look at the Football Money league figures, you'd see that as recently as 2015 our total revenue was 258 mil EUR.
Last season our broadcast revenue alone was 277 milEUR and total revenue 521 mil. During this period we have more than doubled our revenues and significant part in it has been down to our results.
During the same period where were our close competitors -Chelsea revenue was 420 mEUR; Woolwich 436 mEUR; Dortmund was ahead of us with 281 mEUR. Now we have surpassed all them based on last season figures.
Growth from 2015 to 2019 -
Tottenham - 263 million
Dortmund - 96 million
Chelsea - 93 million
Woolwich - 10 million
So our 3 close competitors grew their revenue by 199 mil COMBINED while we alone have added 263 million to the revenue.
We were in different ball-park than Woolwich back then, but within 4 years we have doubled our revenue, they have been standing still and we have surpassed them financially.
Now you can make an assumption that sensible businessman just shrugs his shoulders and accepts that "fuck it, we had it good but now we are going to see falling revenues and there is nothing we can do here"... OR alternative is that for the future growth to invest, and keep the success story going. You surely can assume that he is actually bad at business side of things and let's us fall down again. I don't think it's gonna happen.
P.S - while we are unlikely to replicate our CL run to final, there are at least 2 significant additional revenue factors for next year -
1) First full season in new stadium (larger amount of tickets sold including more VIP places making the impact proportionally bigger; and on top of that all the additional events that will influence the cashflow - NFL games, concerts etc)
2) Naming rights of the stadium still not in place.
3) EDIT - and there is 3rd, though small factor - our run to final last year increased our UEFA coefficent significantly, part of UCL price money will be divided by that coefficent. I don't have time to dig into fine details, but as rough estimation we could get additional 5 mil EUR from there. Additionally this year we earned 9 mil from group stage results (3 win x 2,7m + 1 draw 0,9m) - last year it was 7,2 mil (2 wins x 2,8 m + 2 draws x 0,9 mil) - another 1,8 mil gained. So we recoup already ~ 7 mil from those things. Small amounts add up.
Our broadcasting revenue with regular CL seasons was ~223 m EUR; with final 277 m EUR - so difference was ~55 mil EUR. This season we already are in playoffs, so this roughly 225 mil we should get anyway. And you know what? Those 2 positive factors absolutely can bump our revenue by around 55 mil EUR.
So, I would not say that optimism in our situation would be "unfounded". I think we are in quite strong position.
And I see a business case to significantly invest into our team.
I think we can all agree that Levy is quite an astute businessman. He knows what he is doing.
If you take a look at the Football Money league figures, you'd see that as recently as 2015 our total revenue was 258 mil EUR.
Last season our broadcast revenue alone was 277 milEUR and total revenue 521 mil. During this period we have more than doubled our revenues and significant part in it has been down to our results.
During the same period where were our close competitors -Chelsea revenue was 420 mEUR; Woolwich 436 mEUR; Dortmund was ahead of us with 281 mEUR. Now we have surpassed all them based on last season figures.
Growth from 2015 to 2019 -
Tottenham - 263 million
Dortmund - 96 million
Chelsea - 93 million
Woolwich - 10 million
So our 3 close competitors grew their revenue by 199 mil COMBINED while we alone have added 263 million to the revenue.
We were in different ball-park than Woolwich back then, but within 4 years we have doubled our revenue, they have been standing still and we have surpassed them financially.
Now you can make an assumption that sensible businessman just shrugs his shoulders and accepts that "fuck it, we had it good but now we are going to see falling revenues and there is nothing we can do here"... OR alternative is that for the future growth to invest, and keep the success story going. You surely can assume that he is actually bad at business side of things and let's us fall down again. I don't think it's gonna happen.
P.S - while we are unlikely to replicate our CL run to final, there are at least 2 significant additional revenue factors for next year -
1) First full season in new stadium (larger amount of tickets sold including more VIP places making the impact proportionally bigger; and on top of that all the additional events that will influence the cashflow - NFL games, concerts etc)
2) Naming rights of the stadium still not in place.
3) EDIT - and there is 3rd, though small factor - our run to final last year increased our UEFA coefficent significantly, part of UCL price money will be divided by that coefficent. I don't have time to dig into fine details, but as rough estimation we could get additional 5 mil EUR from there. Additionally this year we earned 9 mil from group stage results (3 win x 2,7m + 1 draw 0,9m) - last year it was 7,2 mil (2 wins x 2,8 m + 2 draws x 0,9 mil) - another 1,8 mil gained. So we recoup already ~ 7 mil from those things. Small amounts add up.
Our broadcasting revenue with regular CL seasons was ~223 m EUR; with final 277 m EUR - so difference was ~55 mil EUR. This season we already are in playoffs, so this roughly 225 mil we should get anyway. And you know what? Those 2 positive factors absolutely can bump our revenue by around 55 mil EUR.
So, I would not say that optimism in our situation would be "unfounded". I think we are in quite strong position.
And I see a business case to significantly invest into our team.
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We have always spent between 45% and 50% of revenue on salaries throughout the entire Levy period, taking your confidence in continuing the same behaviour as accurate then Mourinho will have almost 100m more in salary budget than Poch did three years ago ... let's hope your prediction that our strategy won't change is a correct one ... and you called me optimistic!
520m in revenue is a huge step for a team that constantly manages its finances and in particular it's wages well. We have always heard that we won't spend beyond our means and it's for safeguard moments like the one we may have coming up, where previous Champions League earnings has remained untapped.
A year or two out of the top 4 doesn't batter us like (and I hate to say it but I'm going to
We're in top financial shape, we'll probably break the record for profits for a second straight year so we have surplus we can rely on if we need to take gambles and none of that will come from avenues that we haven't organically developed ourselves.
completely agree with the logic, we are clearly in the best financial shape we’ve been in for many years, although the sponsorship stuff is pure speculation and Levy looks to be holding out for some crazy sum probably based on city’s money laundering-level bar. We are clearly struggling in that area and underperforming or returning to par performance and falling out of CL will do nothing for us in that regard whatsoever.
The problem is Levy and his outlook imho. All this optimism is completely unfounded, although logical dictates and yes you or I would spend and we’d go on to be a force, I don’t believe that is Levy’s nature or approach at all so is largely irrelevant.
Please, see my previous post.
420 mil for next year is extremely unlikely.
I don't see us falling lower than 500 mil by any strech of imagination.
Our Profit numbers for the last 5 years alone are as follows:
2018 - £113m
2017 - £36m
2016 - £33m
2015 - £9m
2014 - £65m
Total just from the last 5 years alone - £256m
If we look at the revenue of £521.1m released today (in 2018 our revenue was £380m so we have absolutely battered that) I think it's safe to assume that we'll be looking at an overall profit of maybe £150m or so (always hard to guess but with player sales/ purchases I'm pretty sure £150m is a good guess.
Even without the added revenue of top 4 next season the club will be sitting on about £406m. We've safeguarded that should it be required and as
BangkokSpud
has mentioned if we don't spend we fall backwards. Can anyone genuinely see Levy being satisfied with the brand taking a hit as we try and launch over revenue streams via the NFL and Stadium etc?
We'll spend, the idea that we are looking at a £45m or so option in Gedson Fernandes, a kid who's played twice this season it seems points towards doing so also.
2018 - £113m
2017 - £36m
2016 - £33m
2015 - £9m
2014 - £65m
Total just from the last 5 years alone - £256m
If we look at the revenue of £521.1m released today (in 2018 our revenue was £380m so we have absolutely battered that) I think it's safe to assume that we'll be looking at an overall profit of maybe £150m or so (always hard to guess but with player sales/ purchases I'm pretty sure £150m is a good guess.
Even without the added revenue of top 4 next season the club will be sitting on about £406m. We've safeguarded that should it be required and as
BangkokSpud
has mentioned if we don't spend we fall backwards. Can anyone genuinely see Levy being satisfied with the brand taking a hit as we try and launch over revenue streams via the NFL and Stadium etc?We'll spend, the idea that we are looking at a £45m or so option in Gedson Fernandes, a kid who's played twice this season it seems points towards doing so also.
tv revenue will reduce with our lower performance and we seem to be asking way too much for the sponsorhip deals or they would have been in place when we were full of momentum and positivity. Now we are a much less certain looking investment (performance wise), so the crazy money will be even harder to come by.
Given we have no evidence extra sponsorship will magically appear your maths would agree we’ll be at a deficit vs this year
I don’t mean unfounded vs the actual figures but vs what Levy will do. Obviously we are generating more than we ever have before and that won’t suddenly disappear next season, though it will decline.
we have monumentally failed to capitalise on the momentum of the new stadium, consecutive CL campaigns and a CL final, a hugely pivotal time in our history and we fluffed the big opportunity, I see nothing to suggest we’ll suddenly pull it round.
Our Profit numbers for the last 5 years alone are as follows:
2018 - £113m
2017 - £36m
2016 - £33m
2015 - £9m
2014 - £65m
Total just from the last 5 years alone - £256m
If we look at the revenue of £521.1m released today (in 2018 our revenue was £380m so we have absolutely battered that) I think it's safe to assume that we'll be looking at an overall profit of maybe £150m or so (always hard to guess but with player sales/ purchases I'm pretty sure £150m is a good guess.
Even without the added revenue of top 4 next season the club will be sitting on about £406m. We've safeguarded that should it be required and as
We'll spend, the idea that we are looking at a £45m or so option in Gedson Fernandes, a kid who's played twice this season it seems points towards doing so also.
Levy won’t be happy but it will be Mourinho’s fault or these clubs that are ‘obsessed with spending’
So Nottingham Forest if by some miracle got there again would get more? What a load of bollocks, talk about protecting the status quo!
It is hard to argue when I quote numbers and sources and you are talking about belief. I admit, I am not able to give you 100% precise numbers. Yet those are stances that professionals who analyse if for living support (did you even open the Football Money league publication?) - both potential sources were added there as well.
As I pointed out - last year CL run gave us around 55 mil more revenue than in 2 previous years.
I already pointed out (in later edit) how we already have recouped 7 mil from this in current season, leaving gap to 48 mil EUR.
Analysts believe that full season in new stadium will push our matchday revenue over 100 mil barrier. This will mean 21,5 mil increase from current year figures. That leaves 26,5 mil to make up for. If we as much as surpass Leipzig RB (not impossible, not granted) to get to QF of CL this would mean additional 10,5mi. Leaving our deficit to 16 mEUR...
So no, we ain't gonna fall off the cliff. No our revenue will not decrease currently so much.
Yes, there would be implications if we miss out next year CL though, I admit that. Also that is why I am saying that it would make sense from business view to invest into squad in Jan to try to push for retaining CL spot.
yeah I appreciate that, but the reason I’m not using figures is because my argument is not based on the figures but behaviour.
Anyway thanks for running the numbers and coming to the same conclusion. There will be a deficit. I was talking about the following year too with no CL. So the deficit will be larger then. Still big numbers for our club though, giving us the potential to invest... certainly, however I believe Levy will base the investment on the more certain elements of our income, probably discounting CL revenues completely for instance, so we are not left in a position where failure to qualify will leave us in trouble. He’s probably already patting himself on the back regarding not investing more in the current squad for the same reasoning, only to be proven right in a self fulfilling prophecy.
investing in the squad this window makes perfect sense, I agree. However there have been numerous occasions in the past where it made perfect sense and didn’t materialise.
Based on past history, we are far more likely to do nothing than make the necessary investment.
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How can we have monumentally failed to capitalise on the momentum of the new stadium when we haven't even been in it for a full season ... talk about jumping the gun.
If you even slightly followed Spurs business activities you will know that 2018 represented the end of a five year cycle and 2019 represents the first year in the new five year cycle ... despite having broken our transfer record in the first window of that new cycle you've already written us off ... ouch
To correct you for the third time, this season our income will increase probably by another 50m so not a deficit ... if you can't work it out I'm not going to bother explaining why again ... read this piece just posted in the FL and educate yourself, facts over wild opinions every time
Tottenham overtake Woolwich as the richest club in London
Yes, as I said in my post, I was actually referring to the drop off in the following year with no CL and reduced PL revenue (from reduced games on tv) apologies for the confusion.
mans yes monumentally failed - we should have had the best squad we’ve ever had going into the new stadium looking to build on our on field progression of previous seasons with a big new sponsor and hopes of winning the title, instead we have no sponsor, a squad and team going backwards and all the good momentum and feeling that could have helped carry the club forward have evaporated.