Toby Alderweireld

[sammyspurs]

Why are you okay with the owners earning insane amounts? If they accepted more modest wages we could easily fund new stadium and training complex.
Explain to me why Levy/Lewis are working hard and justify their income moreso than footballers.

That's like saying why is a cab driver earning less than the owner of the taxi company.

The Chairman and owners of every company on the planet earn more than their employees. Is this news to people? Why is this confusing?

Our players are being paid millions of pounds a year. Onomah earns 20 grand a week.
Do you think our squad is under paid? We are not in debt by hundreds of millions and we were not donated a stadium at the tax payers expense.

What, you think Abramovich would have built us a ground? After what Levy went through with the authorities for nearly 15 years to get this far.
No wage cap, debts and not self sufficient equals no new stadium.

Choose because you seem to want it all.

 

[sammyspurs]

It's not just about Liverpool though. If we look at wages across all the big clubs you can find a sort of average for players of a certain calibre and currently we are way underneath that for our best players, and when the new stadium comes it's something we should address.

And how have Liverpool done compared to Spurs over the last decade?
We have overtaken Woolwich too, and been finishing above Chelsea, Utd and City in recent years.

Did we smash our wage cap those seasons? Or is our policy proving to be one of steady and consistent improvement?

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

And how have Liverpool done compared to Spurs over the last decade?
We have overtaken Woolwich too, and been finishing above Chelsea, Utd and City in recent years.

Did we smash our wage cap those seasons? Or is our policy proving to be one of steady and consistent improvement?

Kick has a point tho.

Like you said, we have been outperforming some of the bigger/better paying clubs for a while now. Eventually that means that players will start wondering "I play better than these guys, how come they are getting paid more".

Eventually the pay structure has to be addressed and modified. That is inevitable. And it is going to happen in the next couple of years.

The structure in itself will not be abandoned, just amped up. And unlike the oil clubs it will be with money earned

 

[sammyspurs]

Kick has a point tho.

Like you said, we have been outperforming some of the bigger/better paying clubs for a while now. Eventually that means that players will start wondering "I play better than these guys, how come they are getting paid more".

Eventually the pay structure has to be addressed and modified. That is inevitable. And it is going to happen in the next couple of years.

The structure in itself will not be abandoned, just amped up. And unlike the oil clubs it will be with money earned

And like Walker, when those players start to have their heads turned by money, they will be shown the door and replacements found.

Toby will never ever earn here what he can at City, Pool, Utd, Chelsea, Real, PSG, Barca etc etc etc.

So, if he gets 100k a week here so what? He can still triple that elsewhere anyway and the risk remains.

Maybe we appease him this time. Then what in a year if City come knocking? Pay him half a million a week to keep him?

We have a structure that benefits the future of the club as has been proven over the last 15 years.

Our policy is not to pander to players wage demands.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

And like Walker, when those players start to have their heads turned by money, they will be shown the door and replacements found.

Toby will never ever earn here what he can at City, Pool, Utd, Chelsea, Real, PSG, Barca etc etc etc.

So, if he gets 100k a week here so what? He can still triple that elsewhere anyway and the risk remains.

Maybe we appease him this time. Then what in a year if City come knocking? Pay him half a million a week to keep him?

We have a structure that benefits the future of the club as has been proven over the last 15 years.

Our policy is not to pander to players wage demands.

I don't think you realize what we are saying.

The entire structure is going to be upgraded.

Do you seriously believe that Tottenham Hotspur FC are not going to revise how and what they pay their players (and staff) in the future?

This is something that happens in the regular workplace once a year FFS

 

[sammyspurs]

I don't think you realize what we are saying.

The entire structure is going to be upgraded.

Do you seriously believe that Tottenham Hotspur FC are not going to revise how and what they pay their players (and staff) in the future?

This is something that happens in the regular workplace once a year FFS

The regular workplace doesn't have an £800M project to fund and an annual £100M wage bill. Incidentally the 6th highest in the PL.

Players salaries will increase within our structure. But as I said they will NEVER touch the likes of City, or Liverpool.

So if people want to argue that "Lovren or Stones earn more" it really doesn't matter if we increase Toby's wages.

What, you think that Chelsea and Utds wages will stand still while we catch up with them?

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

The regular workplace doesn't have an £800M project to fund and an annual £100M wage bill. Incidentally the 6th highest in the PL.[/spoiler]
...... He says in a world containing the likes of Coca Cola, McDonalds, Ford, Apple, Microsoft and the like.

Players salaries will increase within our structure. But as I said they will NEVER touch the likes of City, or Liverpool.

So if people want to argue that "Lovren or Stones earn more" it really doesn't matter if we increase Toby's wages.

What, you think that Chelsea and Utds wages will stand still while we catch up with them?

And you seem to assume that Toby wants some ridiculous amount. If Toby is happy with his football and life with us (which all sources point towards, including his and our managers own words). Then he and his agent will negotiate a deal with the club that benefits both.

 

[The Dane]

What's your point

 

[sammyspurs]

ShutUpPatrik

You said the "regular workplace" and then list off 5 multi billion dollar companies.

And I haven't assumed a single thing about how much Toby wants. I've argued against the mantra that we should pay him whatever he wants or that lesser players earning more is some kind of sign that he deserves more.

The point is, if he was at Liverpool he would earn more than Lovren. But he isn't, so the comparison is pointless because our financial structure is not theirs.

If he negotiates a deal the club is happy with then that deal will be within our means and one the club has decided he's worth. He won't get a penny more than THFC can pay him though, regardless of what Lovren or anyone else earns.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

You said the "regular workplace" and then list off 5 multi billion dollar companies.

And I haven't assumed a single thing about how much Toby wants. I've argued against the mantra that we should pay him whatever he wants or that lesser players earning more is some kind of sign that he deserves more.

The point is, if he was at Liverpool he would earn more than Lovren. But he isn't, so the comparison is pointless because our financial structure is not theirs.

If he negotiates a deal the club is happy with then that deal will be within our means and one the club has decided he's worth. He won't get a penny more than THFC can pay him though, regardless of what Lovren or anyone else earns.

All those places are regular workplaces tho. They are literally employing thosuands if not billions of people worldwide. Them being massive companies doesn't make them irregular workplaces.

Also. I struggle to think most players just "get what they want" from the clubs. It all comes down to negotiation until both parts find a sum they are happy with.

You might not have outright said it, but your general tone seems to imply that you think Toby is sitting around going "pay me 100 gazillion dollars or I leave rawr".

 

[sammyspurs]

All those places are regular workplaces tho. They are literally employing thosuands if not billions of people worldwide. Them being massive companies doesn't make them irregular workplaces.

Also. I struggle to think most players just "get what they want" from the clubs. It all comes down to negotiation until both parts find a sum they are happy with.

You might not have outright said it, but your general tone seems to imply that you think Toby is sitting around going "pay me 100 gazillion dollars or I leave rawr".

And I'm sure you have detailed knowledge of the pay rises they are dishing out and the demands of those asking for new contracts?

You are bringing up a comparison you have zero knowledge in.

If you want to argue against my "tone" and not what I have said, then go ahead.
You don't need me for that.

 

[For better or worse]

I imagine as our revenue increases, wages will follow, it has in the past no reason to assume it wont in the future. What's clear is the long-term stability of the club wont be put at risk by player demands. If they want more money and it's on the table at another club then not a lot we can do. It will be a house of cards once we cave for one.

I believe the in the next ten years several clubs who are either in the top flight now, or recently will disappear into obscurity. Broadcast is near saturation and as the World's economies shrink people wont want to fork out the money for sport, subscription numbers will drop and so will the money bid for the games. Some clubs will be so reliant on these revenue streams they will be fucked not being able to cover their running costs.

or

Players will be earning £1m a week

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

And I'm sure you have detailed knowledge of the pay rises they are dishing out and the demands of those asking for new contracts?

I'm not going to claim to know how big the pay rises for employess at said companies are. But I've done pay rise negotations at my old workplace through my role as union rep so yeah, I kinda know what I am talking about when it comes to the actual process.

 

[eanN17]

See the last 2 lines of what you quoted mate

That's what 24 hours shifts do to you! Apologies!

 

[sammyspurs]

I'm not going to claim to know how big the pay rises for employess at said companies are. But I've done pay rise negotations at my old workplace through my role as union rep so yeah, I kinda know what I am talking about when it comes to the actual process.

So then you will be well aware that no company pays what it feels it can't afford without going into debt. Which Spurs won't do for any player.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

So then you will be well aware that no company pays what it feels it can't afford without going into debt. Which Spurs won't do for any player.

And I've never said that they will.

I've said that the club and Toby will sit down and negotiate a new deal that benefits both parts.

But I'm also a realist and realize that our current salary cap/structure is going to get reworked in the next 2-3 years. Daniel Levy himself has admitted that. LEvy is smart and it's going to be reworked smartly so we don't go into debt by paying salaries. But it will be reworked.

 

[sammyspurs]

I've said that the club and Toby will sit down and negotiate a new deal that benefits both parts.

Why is that news? Thats what happens. If they dont come to a conclusion, I guess he will leave the end of his current contract.

But I'm also a realist and realize that our current salary cap/structure is going to get reworked in the next 2-3 years. Daniel Levy himself has admitted that. LEvy is smart and it's going to be reworked smartly so we don't go into debt by paying salaries. But it will be reworked.

Which means we will still be operating within our policy, means and wage structure.

People are happy to criticise our wages as if its the same as what it was 10 years ago, but are then very quick to say we will amend it over the next few years.
So, we have a policy that works and has been working and evolving then.

You have backed a point made about players achieving under the current structure and then saying "oh look why is he paid more over there..."

Then you say we will amend or wages. Whats the issue then?

 

[The Dane]

And I've never said that they will.

I've said that the club and Toby will sit down and negotiate a new deal that benefits both parts.

But I'm also a realist and realize that our current salary cap/structure is going to get reworked in the next 2-3 years. Daniel Levy himself has admitted that. LEvy is smart and it's going to be reworked smartly so we don't go into debt by paying salaries. But it will be reworked.

Na mate we don't need to rework our wage structure, don't you know. We'll just buy players from the lower leagues and pay them minimum wage, the propah way

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

You have backed a point made about players achieving under the current structure and then saying "oh look why is he paid more over there..."

Because the wage structure has nothing to do with how well the players work on the pitch. I think most people can agree that there are players out there earning ludicrous money who are actually quite shite.

But that in itself causes a conundrum. I don't blame Tottenham players for looking at the results they achieve contra the money they make and going "wonder why I make less than X over at club Y despite doing a better job at the end of the day? Gotta talk with the boss about that".

Most players are mature human beings and handle such things like adults, by talking with their managers, or the managing staff themselves see that players a performing well and reward them with new improved deals. Just look at how many we dished out last season.

I won't throw shit at Alderweireld for wanting to set up the best possible new deal he can get with Tottenham. He has a long term contract so as long as he and the club handles this professionally I have no problem with negotiations taking a while.

What I have a problem with is people seemingly throwing him under the bus for apparently wanting an improved deal when he signs one.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Regardless what you may believe most professional footballers love playing football and they would still be playing even if they were being paid a modest amount. The fact is there is money in the game and it is the players and the success they generate that people are paying to watch so they have power and will be able to take a share of the money.

In just the same way we shouldn't feel sorry for Toby as he is on 4M a year, we shouldn't expect him to feel sorry for us as we can only pay him half of what others can. He has not been moaning about earning relatively less but this is a consideration when deciding to resign a new contract along with how settled his family are, his belief in short term success and also his feelings for the club and fans (possibly low down but this will be a bigger consideration when deciding where to move to).

We should not break the bank for him but we shouldn't expect him to undersell himself either, just as long as he puts the effort in while he is a player is all I think should be expected.