Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

[todd1882]

Rebuilds can't happen all at once

I dislike conventional wisdom and it usually leads me to the question of "why not?"...and it usually leads to someone uncritically and tautologically restating the conventional wisdom But let's leave that for now as it's separate from the point at hand, the point I was thanking you for posting.

I personally think that Poch lost sight of the incremental rebuild requirements for such a huge outlay.

Allowing for the fact that this is your opinion and you're completely entitled to hold it, for discussion's sake, can you explain why you feel this way? I ask because according to AG's article you posted it says Poch was calling for these moves 'almost 2 years ago' which would be the 2nd half of the 17/18 season...the spring preceding the Sammy-summer. Who is to say that he didn't want half of the squad that summer (2018), integrate them and move on those that were expecting/expected to leave (ie Dembele, Eriksen, toby, etc), and do the other half the next summer (2019)?

I would argue that unless you have evidence to suggest he wanted it any other way, and he is on record supporting the conventional wisdom, then to think otherwise is uncharitable. And by not getting anyone in 2018 summer TW it would stand to reason anyone would expect more the next summer window as the need would be greater. If you go grocery shopping in February but skip March then you are going to have to double up in April. Just would like your thoughts.

When Poch spoke of the rebuild being painful and that he would have left the club if we had won the Champions League in all honesty do you think that screamed long term to the chairman and the players?

I have my quibbles with your interpretation here but I will leave it for now so we can focus on 1 point at a time.

A further £100m-£150m worth probably required to be a force, that's a hell of a lot of money to let someone making noises about getting out to be given. It's a shame but ultimately I think the club was right. I think it needed new hands on it, a new set of eyes managerially.

Again, this is moving away from the initial point/reporting of Poch wanting this rebuild 'almost 2 seasons' ago. Once we hammer out that point then these other points will come into focus.

You seem to be 'debating' but that was not my intention in my initial post. I was just saying 'thank you' for posting a definitive reference to something. But as I am always up for an honest debate I'll bite...especially if we can keep it focused on 1 point at a time.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

I dislike conventional wisdom and it usually leads me to the question of "why not?". But let's leave that as it's separate from the point at hand.


Allowing for the fact that this is your opinion and you're completely entitled to hold it, for discussion's sake can you explain why you feel this way? I ask because according to AG's article you posted it says Poch was calling for these moves 'almost 2 years ago' which would be the 2nd half of the 17/18 season...the spring leading to the Sammy-summer. Who is to say that he didn't want half of the squad that summer (2018), integrate them and move on those that were expecting to leave (ie Dembele, Eriksen, toby, etc), and do the other half the next summer (2019)?

I would argue that unless you have evidence to suggest he wanted it any other way, and he is on record supporting the conventional wisdom, then to think otherwise is uncharitable. And by not getting anyone in 2018 it would stand to reason anyone would expect more the next window as the need would be greater. If you go grocery shopping in February but skip March then you are going to have to double up in April. Just would like your thoughts.


I have my quibbles with your interpretation here but I will leave it for now so we can focus on 1 point at a time.


Again, this is moving away from the initial point/reporting of Poch wanting this rebuild 'almost 2 seasons' ago. Once we hammer out that point then these other points will come into focus.

You seem to be 'debating' but that was not my intention in my initial post. I was just saying 'thank you' for posting a definitive reference to something. But as I am always up for an honest debate I'll bite.

Pochettino wanted a rebuild yes so why was it only Grealish we targeted that summer? I ain't sure what went on or goes on behind the scenes but really the squad of players we had last year, before extensive rebuilds were going on were more than capable of doing more than they did towards the tail end of the season.

With a first XI at the start of the 2018 season revolving around Lloris, Trippier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Winks, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane I personally think that team still had legs in it, I think they have underperformed since that famous summer of 2018, even if the money men failed him at the time. It was after all just one player, not massive for a revamp.

Looking at our starting XI that season, do we honestly think any of our new signings would have been starters back in 2018/19 season? Two (Ndombele and Lo Celso) would have been big outlays for what would ultimately be subs. Lo Celso would have been a smart buy back then regardless as he was half the price but if we were after Grealish at £25m why not pull the trigger on Lo Celso before his move to Real Betis at £22m? Or Maddison for that matter? Maybe Poch didn't fancy them, know he's always been somewhat picky about incomings.

Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Clarke, Bergwijn, Gedson, and the rumoured desire for a CB, RB, DM, AM & FWD that's a solid 11 signings. Impossible to balance that financially as well as culturally in a 25 man squad in just one season. Should we have done something a year earlier? It's hard to say without knowing the outcome of that season with hindsight. After all we did get top 4 still and did make the final with an apparently knackered squad.

It's a massive rebuild, a year later than it should have been? Maybe but its so tricky when you have 4-6 coming to the end like we did/ do (Rose, Trippier, Vertonghen, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen) like we did all roughly at the same time. 11 new players potentially required over a 12-15 month period at probably around a £350m-£400m cost. Too much risk to do all at once it needs to be strung out for rational reasons.

Lessons to be learnt absolutely but I think the biggest lesson we could take with us is to ensure we don't require 7-8 players at the same time again due to age or contract expiry. It's too much and it rips the guts out of what's been built. We really should be only needing to add 2-3 each season, I see that ultimately as a shortcoming from the club be it via the manager or chairman, it's hard to know the guilt one as money was there in 2018 but somebody, whoever that was opted not to spend it on certain players attainable at the time.

 

[todd1882]

Pochettino wanted a rebuild yes so why was it only Grealish we targeted that summer? I ain't sure what went on or goes on behind the scenes but really the squad of players we had last year, before extensive rebuilds were going on were more than capable of doing more than they did towards the tail end of the season.

With a first XI at the start of the 2018 season revolving around Lloris, Trippier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Winks, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane I personally think that team still had legs in it, I think they have underperformed since that famous summer of 2018, even if the money men failed him at the time. It was after all just one player, not massive for a revamp.

Looking at our starting XI that season, do we honestly think any of our new signings would have been starters back in 2018/19 season? Two (Ndombele and Lo Celso) would have been big outlays for what would ultimately be subs. Lo Celso would have been a smart buy back then regardless as he was half the price but if we were after Grealish at £25m why not pull the trigger on Lo Celso before his move to Real Betis at £22m? Or Maddison for that matter? Maybe Poch didn't fancy them, know he's always been somewhat picky about incomings.

Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Clarke, Bergwijn, Gedson, and the rumoured desire for a CB, RB, DM, AM & FWD that's a solid 11 signings. Impossible to balance that financially as well as culturally in a 25 man squad in just one season. Should we have done something a year earlier? It's hard to say without knowing the outcome of that season with hindsight. After all we did get top 4 still and did make the final with an apparently knackered squad.

It's a massive rebuild, a year later than it should have been? Maybe but its so tricky when you have 4-6 coming to the end like we did/ do (Rose, Trippier, Vertonghen, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen) like we did all roughly at the same time. 11 new players potentially required over a 12-15 month period at probably around a £350m-£400m cost. Too much risk to do all at once it needs to be strung out for rational reasons.

Lessons to be learnt absolutely but I think the biggest lesson we could take with us is to ensure we don't require 7-8 players at the same time again due to age or contract expiry. It's too much and it rips the guts out of what's been built. We really should be only needing to add 2-3 each season, I see that ultimately as a shortcoming from the club be it via the manager or chairman, it's hard to know the guilt one as money was there in 2018 but somebody, whoever that was opted not to spend it on certain players attainable at the time.

PLMT that is a lot of words to answer why you feel this:

I personally think that Poch lost sight of the incremental rebuild requirements for such a huge outlay.

And after reading it I am no more clear on your justification for holding such an opinion. You think he lost sight of the necessity to 'stage' a rebuild both financially and sportingly I assume. But AG's post says he wanted it 2 seasons ago...that's 2 summer and 2 Jan TW's to stage a rebuild. I am just asking for your justification for holding such an opinion and I'm not asking to have all the intervening things restated.

I'm aware of what happened in the intervening time but what I'm not aware of is your justification for believing Poch 'lost sight'...almost 2 years ago. I can't imagine why the answer would take you more than 20 words let alone 500. And when we hammer out that point we can move on to the others.

See, I don't think Poch wanted it all in 1 fell swoop and I have both AG's new post and past interviews/articles of him saying you can't bring too many players in at once. That italicized part is 22-23 words.

 

[TommyD123]

A press resistant 6 is the obvious priority. But I think a LB is a massive priority after that. Aurier's a bit bonkers but at least he's dynamic, gets up and down with intent - yes an upgrade would be great but our LB situation is much more concerning - we haven't had a serviceable one all season. Lately reduced to playing a rookie RCB as LB, we've been so imbalanced. Injury issues with Davies aside, he's always done an OK job, but we need more than OK in such a pivotal position, especially if Mou doesn't last long and we get a coach that needs a more proactive and dynamic LB - like most modern coaches and system's do.

Would that not be Sessegnon? And with Cirkin already making the bench at 18, he’s seemingly highly rated as a future option there.

Whereas RB we have the much improved but still erratic Aurier and.....
KWP likely to be gone.
Foyth not trusted there.
Tanganga looked excellent against Boro but has played more CB and even left back for us.

Definitely feel a RB is more pressing than a left back!

 

[Ahab]

Opinion: Ten players Spurs should offload in the summer and what they should charge - The Spurs Web - Tottenham Hotspur Football News

Tottenham Hotspur will likely have a busy summer transfer window, but I believe that Daniel Levy will want to sell a fair few players in...

www.spurs-web.com

Jan Vertonghen – FREE – Unfortunately his days are numbered and his contract should be allowed to run down.

Michel Vorm – FREE – Only joined to plug a gap and will likely be let go again this summer.

Kyle Walker-Peters – £10m – Not quite good enough for a top-four side.


Danny Rose – £10m – Not long left on his contract and can’t see him getting back in the side now.

Victor Wanyama – £8m – Hasn’t played consistently in years and doesn’t have long left on his contract.

Juan Foyth – £15m – Hasn’t made the progress Spurs would have liked and Tanganga has pushed him further down in the pecking order.

Eric Dier – £20m – No longer good enough and not long left on his contract, but has enough pedigree still to fetch a decent price.

Cameron Carter-Vickers – £4m – Doesn’t look like he will make the step up and hasn’t for a while now.

Anthony Georgiou – £3m – Same problem as Carter-Vickers. Time to move him on.

Serge Aurier – £20m – Can fetch a good price after an impressive season. However, I think Spurs will splash out on a new right-back and Aurier won’t want to play second fiddle.


TOTAL – £90m

Bloody optimistic price tags for some of them players....

 

[Johnboy40]

Thought the window was closed????

In this case, they've agreed the deal and the transfer takes place soon as the window opens...I assume there are caveats if his legs fall off meaning the deal gets cancelled.
And you can sign players outside of the window. You just cant play them unless they were unattached. It's really more about the transfer of registration rather than actual transfers

 

[Herclueless]

Thanks for posting this. This 'new' info/reporting goes against some of the narratives that have popped up and supports many of the echoes from previous TWs about needing new players. It's good to see Poch wanted/saw it as well. Too bad we didn't get it when it could have been best utilized to prevent things like this season. Makes one wonder why it never occurred.

Bookmarked!

There's a big difference between a new manager coming in and wanting to overhaul a squad, and one building a squad for 6 years then deciding he wants to chuck it all and start again IMO, not sure why Poch gets so much praise for that sentiment, I doubt it did much for morale...

 

[Johnboy40]

Theres no way we will get Aarons, Soumare, Eze, Upamecano and Osimhen. When have we every bought all our top targets?

Who said they are our top targets?

 

[Clynelish]

 

[Clynelish]

 

[JohnnyS]

This is an interesting one. Manure definitely wouldn't want to sell to us, but he wouldn't be able to get into the first team either because of De Gea. Looks like a decent keeper.

 

[Totti]

Henderson would be great.

Would cost sooooo much money though in a position that isn't near the top of importance for what needs to be upgraded.

 

[ArcspacE]

This transfer window should be about clearing deadwood as much as signing new players

Wanyama
Rose
Verts
Lamela
Foyth
Vorm (a given)
Gazza (need a better Lloris understudy - he's nowhere near good enough)

All should be moved on

Keep Dier and Davies as squad options

 

[Clynelish]

This transfer window should be about clearing deadwood as much as signing new players

Wanyama
Rose
Lamela
Foyth
Vorm (a given)
Gazza (need a better Lloris understudy - he's nowhere near good enough)

All should be moved on

Keep Dier and Davies as squad options

Vertonghen is probably gone in the summer as well.

 

[ArcspacE]

Vertonghen is probably gone in the summer as well.

Yes - sorry forgot to add

 

[Spursidol]

This transfer window should be about clearing deadwood as much as signing new players

Wanyama
Rose
Verts
Lamela
Foyth
Vorm (a given)
Gazza (need a better Lloris understudy - he's nowhere near good enough)

All should be moved on

Keep Dier and Davies as squad options

Agreed - but its because we have a large squad right now and have maxed out on our maximum Overseas Trained players (on CL definitions), so we have no option other than to sell or let go players in order to sign and register new Overseas Trained players.

A good chance all of those on your list will have gone by start of next season, other than maybe Gazza who is an 'ok' no 2 GK and I suspect we will focus on looking to strengthen 5 or 6 positions before we get round to him.

 

[The Swellhead Spur]

Ben Godfrey has been linked, he's a defensive mid by trade, been playing at centre back a while

 

[MVP]

This transfer window should be about clearing deadwood as much as signing new players

Wanyama
Rose
Verts
Lamela
Foyth
Vorm (a given)
Gazza (need a better Lloris understudy - he's nowhere near good enough)

All should be moved on

Keep Dier and Davies as squad options

It seems like every window is about clearing deadwood.

 

[stevee]

Jude Bellingham

I know he was mentioned in the January transfer thread but what are our chances of getting him ?
Apparently Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Woolwich, Juve and Bayern are all interested in him.

Jude Bellingham transfer battle intensifies for Man United

Manchester United are facing increasing opposition in their attempts to sign Birmingham…

thepeoplesperson.com

 

[SchmoodSpur]

This transfer window should be about clearing deadwood as much as signing new players

Wanyama
Rose
Verts
Lamela
Foyth
Vorm (a given)
Gazza (need a better Lloris understudy - he's nowhere near good enough)

All should be moved on

Keep Dier and Davies as squad options

Maybe get Chochev in, that guy you said was better than Modric?

Wonder where he's at now?

Oh...Serie B's Palermo.

Awkward.