Summer 2018 transfer window

[tbonepremier]

Totti already shown why this argument is dumb. You're saying that Alonso is one of the GOATs with this stat based logic.

It's too simplistic. There's not a stat for how many opportunities we miss from Davies not attacking his man, for how much width we lose out on which affects the ENTIRE attack from back to front, for how much momentum is not capitalised on by having no threat from anywhere other down the middle which can easily be packed etc.

He's posting a question bringing up a point, so no, he's not saying anything about Alonso.

However, it is not unreasonable to say that Alonso is a great wing back for his club based on his stats, despite the fact that he at times doesn't look like much of a footballer. In football it is more important to produce the goods than to look good, which is one of the reason Kane is about a million times better than Wellbeck, why Crouch was a decent attacker and Long is shit, why Alli is such a fantastic player, why Townsend never made it with us.

Townsend was flashy as fuck, had a monster of a shot, but never hit the target and didn't learn how to efficiently use the ball.

Davies and Trippier may not look flashy running down the wings, but they more often than most fullbacks have a thought an aim and/or an ability to hit an attacking player with a cross, whereas Rose and Walker more often than not just rushed towards the line and knocked the ball in with little control or aim to it.

 

[tbonepremier]

Can Oblak be our 'marquee signing' ?

No. Too highly valued, too high profile, we already have a great goalkeeper.

 

[tbonepremier]

All I know is a defenders key job is defending. I don't really give a damn how much a defender provides offensively as long as they do their job in defence

Yeah, no. Those ideas belong in the stoneage of football. Defending and attacking are done as a team. Wing backs/full backs are very important for attacking for any ambitious team. Hell, even Businho in United allows his full backs to attack.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

He's posting a question bringing up a point, so no, he's not saying anything about Alonso.

However, it is not unreasonable to say that Alonso is a great wing back for his club based on his stats, despite the fact that he at times doesn't look like much of a footballer. In football it is more important to produce the goods than to look good, which is one of the reason Kane is about a million times better than Wellbeck, why Crouch was a decent attacker and Long is shit, why Alli is such a fantastic player, why Townsend never made it with us.

Townsend was flashy as fuck, had a monster of a shot, but never hit the target and didn't learn how to efficiently use the ball.

Davies and Trippier may not look flashy running down the wings, but they more often than most fullbacks have a thought an aim and/or an ability to hit an attacking player with a cross, whereas Rose and Walker more often than not just rushed towards the line and knocked the ball in with little control or aim to it.

The way I look at it, Rose and Walker are more likely to try and break the defensive line with their raw power. Ben and Tripps are more likely to look to circumvent it/work around it. Different styles of players

 

[tbonepremier]

Yeah, if this is true, we're talking about a pretty radical rebuild, not a little tweaking to improve the squad.

Not that radical, really. Three of the four has barely played this season. Replacing Dembele though...I fear that will be next to impossible. He is arguably our best and most important player when in form.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Not that radical, really. Three of the four has barely played this season. Replacing Dembele though...I fear that will be next to impossible. He is arguably our best and most important player when in form.

It's impossible to replace Dembele with a similar player. There are none. But other good CMs do exist.

 

[Super Jan Fan]

I think Dembele getting older is one of the reasons why we will change our style of play next season. I love Demebele but I feel like our style of play sometimes reflects him, is built around him, and that means we get the positives and the negatives there. I think next season will see us transition to a more quick, attacking team, closer to what City and Liverpool have currently. We have Moura who I expect to play more, and I think we'll sign another pacey winger in the summer. Sessegnon, Malcolm, Zaha, or another similar player.
And in midfield I think we'll see a Dembele replacement who will be more of a passer of the ball rather that what we have now. Not sure who exactly though. I think that will suit us better in terms of where we want to go.

 

[TheJockmur]

I agree for the most part, but our best defender has been consistently playing. Vertonghen. In parts of his first season, Toby was extraordinary but apart from that Jan has been our best. Would've deserved to be our PotY this season and the last.

I'd say Toby is definitely the better of the two in my personal opinion, and they are better when played together. Jan has been fantastic this season though, I fully agree.

 

[RocketRonny]

I think Dembele getting older is one of the reasons why we will change our style of play next season. I love Demebele but I feel like our style of play sometimes reflects him, is built around him, and that means we get the positives and the negatives there. I think next season will see us transition to a more quick, attacking team, closer to what City and Liverpool have currently. We have Moura who I expect to play more, and I think we'll sign another pacey winger in the summer. Sessegnon, Malcolm, Zaha, or another similar player.
And in midfield I think we'll see a Dembele replacement who will be more of a passer of the ball rather that what we have now. Not sure who exactly though. I think that will suit us better in terms of where we want to go.

I've been dreaming of our own dynamic 4-3-3 for a while

Hugo
Aurier Sanchz Jan Davies
Winks Dembele Eriksen
Son Kane Dele

 

[TheSpurEst]

No ones debating whether or not Davies has been better than Rose this season, of course he has been, he's played what seems like 20 games more and had a hand in assists and goals - but Rose the last two years, especially 2015/2016 was arguably the best left back in Europe. Davies isn't even the best left back in the country

Hahhahahahaha oh my. Got a HUGE laughter here.

I have NEVER (to emphasize my point - at NO POINT IN TIME) considered Rose not even top 5 left back in Europe. What the hell should one smoke to think he was? He had pace. Period. His deliveries have been freakin sh*tshow and his decision making questionable at best. For those who like to wank over fast runners I suggest to start watching track and field. This Bolt guy ran lot faster than Rose, given that this seems to be only priority evaluating a fullback. For fook sake, he has 16!!! senior caps for England side. He is almost 28 now. He was never picked to play before he was almost 26! What an exemptional ignorance from number of managers, ah? The truth is that only and exclusively Spurs fans could consider him anything near top 5 LBs in Europe.

Whoever said that "footballing brain is not the same thing as lacking pace" is just beyond clueless. I just cannot understand how anyone with two eyes can not see that Ben reads the game better. He understands better what is going on around him. He anticipates situations and can act accordingly. On the attacking side he can pick the optimal pass, unlike Rose who mostly closed eyes and whipped the ball in blindly and just relies on pace to get back.

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

Don’t see why would we sell dembele and wanyama in the same summer. We shouldn’t.

Toby, rose and dembele are gone I feel unfortunately.

We need three very very good replacements.

 

[Totti]

Don’t see why would we sell dembele and wanyama in the same summer. We shouldn’t.

Toby, rose and dembele are gone I feel unfortunately.

We need three very very good replacements.

De Ligt, Sessegnon and NDombele plz.

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

De Ligt, Sessegnon and NDombele plz.

De ligt yes and ndombele as well. I’m a bit iffy about sessegnon. Plus he’s a direct winger. Poch doesn’t fancy them a lot.
Ruben Neves to the dembele role would also excite me a lot. I would sign tierney from Celtic to the rose place.

 

[Totti]

De ligt yes and ndombele as well. I’m a bit iffy about sessegnon. Plus he’s a direct winger. Poch doesn’t fancy them a lot.
Ruben Neves to the dembele role would also excite me a lot. I would sign tierney from Celtic to the rose place.

True. I think Sessegnon is likely to just be competition for Son as he's far too good to be a left back.

Nice to see that we are scouting left backs though. Tierney would be good. I also like Mendy at Lyon too.

Anyone but Kurzawa

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Has Danny Rose ever crossed a ball?
Serious question

It's not about crosses, it's about stretching the oppo, pinning back their FB/WB's, it's about getting behind them and committing their defence, creating spaces. Both Walker and Rose did this better than any FB in the league.

Davies is actually excellent in the final third but only when he goes inside the oppo, he has created many chances this season by doing just this. But what he doesn't offer is stretching the play (drawing out the oppo wide) by going on the outside of his opposite number or getting behind the oppo, turning them, he does at least attempt to do this he's just not as effective as Rose (who isn't overly skilful, he just stream-rollers his way in/over the oppo). I've no issues whatsoever with Davies, I really like him.

Tripps doesn't go inside or outside and doesn't take-on and commit his opposite number, he crosses and crosses and crosses, this is easily dealt with by the goalkeeper and the 5 or 6 defenders in the box all waiting for the cross to come in. He also has no legs to get back and defend, he's out of the game so much in no-mans land.

Walker & Rose dominate the oppo, suffocated them, even if they played against a strong quick opponent as the game wares on their athleticism to get up and down the line destroys the legs of their opposite number who eventually just wilt. Neither Tripps or Davies dominates like this. (A bit unfair on Davies as he hasn't been rotated, so I think he has had to compensate as he will be asked to do it again in 3 or 5 days time, when both fit Rose would have the luxury to go all out and may be get rotated to gain recovery time).

Bottomline is we play differently, slower without Rose and Walker. I prefer watching us with Rose and Walker in the side.

 

[Nikesh]

It's not about crosses, it's about stretching the oppo, pinning back their FB/WB's, it's about getting behind them and committing their defence, creating spaces. Both Walker and Rose did this better than any FB in the league.

Davies is actually excellent in the final third but only when he goes inside the oppo, he has created many chances this season by doing just this. But what he doesn't offer is stretching the play (drawing out the oppo wide) by going on the outside of his opposite number or getting behind the oppo, turning them, he does at least attempt to do this he's just not as effective as Rose (who isn't overly skilful, he just stream-rollers his way in/over the oppo). I've no issues whatsoever with Davies, I really like him.

Tripps doesn't go inside or outside and doesn't take-on and commit his opposite number, he crosses and crosses and crosses, this is easily dealt with by the goalkeeper and the 5 or 6 defenders in the box all waiting for the cross to come in. He also has no legs to get back and defend, he's out of the game so much in no-mans land.

Walker & Rose dominate the oppo, suffocated them, even if they played against a strong quick opponent as the game wares on their athleticism to get up and down the line destroys the legs of their opposite number who eventually just wilt. Neither Tripps or Davies dominates like this. (A bit unfair on Davies as he hasn't been rotated, so I think he has had to compensate as he will be asked to do it again in 3 or 5 days time, when both fit Rose would have the luxury to go all out and may be get rotated to gain recovery time).

Bottomline is we play differently, slower without Rose and Walker. I prefer watching us with Rose and Walker in the side.

Yet we sold Walker and now selling Toby. So hardly helping ourselves

 

[TheSpurEst]

It's impossible for Davies to attack as effectively as Rose did because his attributes are completely different.

Rose would provide width and attack his full back. Davies would prefer to cross from deep and play it safely to keep possession.

What you are saying is that it is impossible to attack while running as fast as Rose.
Efficiency =/= pace ffs. Davies has been more efficient already with having hand in more goals than Rose ever has during one season.

And those who come out and say that our performances this year are down (well the fact that they are down is already strong assumption) due to fullback performance... well, I'll be damned. Seems extremely insightful to eliminate ALL the other factors such as -
- Toby being frozen out of the team since November (even though his long ball ability was quite an asset last year)
- Wanyama missing / being out of shape due to injury practically whole season
- Alli and Eriksen starting season slowly compared to their own standards

You've made it pretty clear you don't rate Danny.

Thing is, if your analaysis is anywhere near right, there is no fucking way a club as ambitious as Man Utd with a manager as succesful as Mourinho would be remotely interesting in signing the player this summer.

WHO SAID THEY ARE?!?!?
I have seen exatly 0 reputable sources linking Rose with ManU. Did they come for him in winter? I don't recall.

This is just fully random assumption.

 

[Thin Lilywhite Duke]

Can Oblak be our 'marquee signing' ?

He's fantastic.

But I'd put money on the goalkeeper carousel going:

> De Gea to Real Madrid
> Oblak to Machester United

 

[TheSpurEst]

Our central midfield options are not the best and need to be upgraded. At DM, we are strong with Dier and a now healthy Wanyama and have other options to play there. For whomever is going to play next to them, we need an upgrade. Dembele is brilliant, but he isn't the player he used to be and is a serious injury concern. Winks hasn't been healthy enough to improve on the glimpses he has shown. Sissoko is a good squad option, but he isn't the solution. Our priority should be to bring in a ball playing CM, with either Sissoko or Dembele leaving. As crazy as it sounds, I'd probably prefer Dembele to make way. He is brilliant, yet he cannot stay healthy. Sissoko offers multiple positions - CM, DM, AM, RWB - while Dembele offers CM and DM. Furthermore, Sissoko, for us at least, hasn't been an injury concern. I imagine both are on relatively similar wages and Dembele could extract a 10m fee from some club in Italy or China.

Out:
Dembele - 10m

Sorry, but that sounds outright stupid piece (though I agree with most other parts).
How in the world do we just swing from one extreme to another? I agree that Dembele was poor against ManU. But at the same time when we had a run of 8 wins and 2 draws out of 10 games (from rounds 23-33) that included games against ManU, Pool, Woolwich and City - he played 90 minutes 5 times and was subbed off in 85,82,79,80,77th minute mark meaning he only missed total of 47 minutes of this super impressive series... he done VERY WELL in each and every game in this series. What happened before and after this run - before he was on bench and we drew with West ham, after that he was on bench and we drew with Brighton (excluding the ManCity game into which I don't think we can read anything, given that we were outplayed in every aspect by them in both games we played this season).

So what the fook does it mean "not the player he used to be"? Sure, he has above average problems with injuries. Agreed. But at the same time he is an HUGE asset to the side. Technically excellent player who many of our own squad regard as "best player in team" even though we have ones like Kane and Veronghen and Eriksen....

How would someone in right mind say that they would sell such player rather then Sissoko? Please, I would like to hear explanation that would make any sense. What does it mean "he cannot stay healthy" in the light of numbers I just presented? Yea, I agree that he should not be the one and only player. And I also agree we have to add someone who can fill that space. But selling such a player for 10 million is beyond imbecillic move.

Only reason why he should leave would be his own wish. And this is the only one.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Yet we sold Walker and now selling Toby. So hardly helping ourselves

I loved Walker but we were 100% right to sell him because he didn't want to be here. I love Rose but if he doesn't want to be here we have to sell him. I love Toby but if he doesn't want to be here then we must sell him too.