So, why can't we cross the line?

[TottsAmazeballs]

This talk of 8 lost semis is bollocks. The only thing I'll credit it with is perhaps the media bias gets our players down. We lost the last 2 semis to great teams full of world class players. But those 6 previous matches were different players, different managers, different styles of football. Now, we've got a young team and a young coach* going in the right direction. We've got some world class players of our own and more are on the way (both emerging and probably a couple in the next window).

* a coach who's still learning at least.

Today sucked a fat one, but don't let's lose our heads.

COYS!

 

[The Multi]

 

[rusty]

we lack a leader on the pitch, someone who will go round and kick his own players if they don't pull their finger out,
Poch is not a ruthless manager, he wants to friends with his in favour players, those that upset him are pushed away (walker, Toby)
this myth about bring young players in ? who has got in this season ? yes in past season he has given young players their chance to in the first team, but this season he hasn't why ? Pressure ?
Poch is the best manager we have since I started watching Spurs in 1968, but he is not Jose or Pep, he can't chance in game play,

 

[Ossie Wembley]

This talk of 8 lost semis is bollocks. The only thing I'll credit it with is perhaps the media bias gets our players down. We lost the last 2 semis to great teams full of world class players. But those 6 previous matches were different players, different managers, different styles of football. Now, we've got a young team and a young coach going in the right direction. We've got some world class players of our own and more are on the way (both emerging and probably a couple in the next window).

Today sucked a fat one, but don't let's lose our heads.

COYS!

Poch is not a young manager he is 46, 1 year younger than Simeone and Guardiola and 2 years younger than Conte and no ever tries to claim they are younger managers. He has been a manager for close to a decade just how much more time and development does he need exactly?

 

[asterdroid]

Poch is not a young manager he is 46, 1 year younger than Simeone and Guardiola and 2 years younger than Conte and no ever tries to claim they are younger managers. He has been a manager for close to a decade just how much more time and development does he need exactly?

Exactly, mourinho was younger than this when he won CL with Porto - a better achievement than guardiola who inherited a super club

 

[Totti]

Pochettino is stubborn. That's the problem.

He has his favourites. He has his way of playing and that's the only way. Why he refuses to shut up shop when absolutely necessary is beyond me.

When it's needed to play a different way to beat teams (Liverpool at Anfield, Man City etc) why do we insist on playing our own brand of football which is relatively easy for a top team to counter?

It's either we don't have the players good enough to perform at his level in his style. Or he needs to evolve and change it up.

We've improved massively over the last 4 years he's been here but we now need to take it to the next level. Next season is his biggest. New stadium and fuck me we need new character.

 

[Eli]

Pochettino is stubborn. That's the problem.

He has his favourites. He has his way of playing and that's the only way. Why he refuses to shut up shop when absolutely necessary is beyond me.

When it's needed to play a different way to beat teams (Liverpool at Anfield, Man City etc) why do we insist on playing our own brand of football which is relatively easy for a top team to counter?

It's either we don't have the players good enough to perform at his level in his style. Or he needs to evolve and change it up.

We've improved massively over the last 4 years he's been here but we now need to take it to the next level. Next season is his biggest. New stadium and fuck me we need new character.

We have improved no doubt but we’ve stuck being nearly men,we keep saying next seseaon is make or break we said that about this season we can’t keep on saying it!

 

[iz futbal]

Because United were shite post Ferguson, Pellegrini couldn’t be arsed at City after the title win in 2014 and Liverpool required a rebuild after losing Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez.

In this period of ‘success’ Chelsea won the league with an inferior team, as Leicester did obviously too; now the Manc clubs have sorted themselves out we’re gradually drifting down the table, losing key players from that aforementioned positive period and just generally looking to be losing momentum.

And you’d rather now win the league and cups with Mourinho? (Which he would likely do with this team)

I wouldnt want to see us play boring football every week with Mourinho, but the feeling of winning a cup or the league would be worth it.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

I wouldnt want to see us play boring football every week with Mourinho, but the feeling of winning a cup or the league would be worth it.

You can play "defensive"/"Smart" football without being boring. That's the thing that grinds me the most about Mourinho. All the talent in that team and he still plays like it's a wake.

Schalke play very smart, defensive football and still play entertaining football at the same time for example. Granted as I say this they just went out in a semi final as well.

 

[Notabadsquad]

You can play "defensive"/"Smart" football without being boring. That's the thing that grinds me the most about Mourinho. All the talent in that team and he still plays like it's a wake.

Schalke play very smart, defensive football and still play entertaining football at the same time for example. Granted as I say this they just went out in a semi final as well.

Nothing too much wrong with playing to win however it comes within reason.

Options help. Proper options that is. Just to give us our best chance when it matters most.

Kane has been brilliant. Pochettino made him captain but he did very little yesterday. Where is the strength and willingness to take him off? Maybe therein lies the difference but that was yesterday only.

The 7 previous losses who can say. Finishing 3rd in a two horse race? How.

Mourinho talks only of winning, and then being 2nd, then nowhere.

It is maybe just for Pochettino to ensure his rhetoric is right and that he is able to react accordingly, whatever the circunstances.

Mourinho and those who win seem to be able to do that.

 

[Samisspurs]

I'd rather have Poch and no/limited success than Mourinho (dire football, cups every other season). That's why I'm a Spurs fan.

 

[pipes]

You can play "defensive"/"Smart" football without being boring. That's the thing that grinds me the most about Mourinho. All the talent in that team and he still plays like it's a wake.

Schalke play very smart, defensive football and still play entertaining football at the same time for example. Granted as I say this they just went out in a semi final as well.

Was looking forward to pointing out the massive flaw in your argument about the perennially unsuccessful Schalke until you did it yourself at the end. Did slightly spoil my fun, but I grudgingly accept you had to go for the self inflicted wound.

 

[Totti]

There's a difference between being "boring" and holding a lead.

Putting men behind the ball at home to the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc. and looking to keep possession for possession sake is boring and not needed. Luckily we don't do this.

Holding a lead when 3-2 up at home to Juventus in the Champions League, despite playing exciting football for 180 minutes is not "boring" - it's called game management.

If we played the same way every game with the personnel we have, we aren't going to get anywhere.

 

[Super Jan Fan]

we need to buy 2 winners, like we did in 1978,
ozzie made hoddle into a great player
our players lack the bottle to win,
if Jose was our manager today we would have won the match, jose knows what it takes to win, timewaste, long ball football, whatever it takes he will tell the players to do it, Poch won't,

The idea of Jose being our manager makes me want to vomit, but your point is correct. Poch must adapt the way we play against TACTICS-based teams. That why we lose these games and why the opposition win these comps.

 

[Eli]

I'd rather have Poch and no/limited success than Mourinho (dire football, cups every other season). That's why I'm a Spurs fan.

Totally agree far sooner enjoy the the ride with Tottenham Hotspur than any faceless plastic money obsessed cretins like Mourinho,Klopp,Guardiola.....that’s not being bitter it’s keeping it real! you expect plastic glory and it be comes the norm if I being a Tottenham fan won one trophy,just one based on how we are right now with squad,money etc I’d value that far far ahead of buying ten!

 

[Samisspurs]

Totally agree far sooner enjoy the the ride with Tottenham Hotspur than any faceless plastic money obsessed cretins like Mourinho,Klopp,Guardiola.....that’s not being bitter it’s keeping it real! you expect plastic glory and it be comes the norm if I being a Tottenham fan won one trophy,just one based on how we are right now with squad,money etc I’d value that far far ahead of buying ten!

And part of that is accepting that Poch may not be around much longer if we get a few more games like yesterday - not because I'd want him to go, but because of media pressure and spurs fans who actually care what plastic fans think of them. The key for me is to enjoy our style of football, and wonderful moments like Madrid this season, without the expectation that we're subsequently entitled to trophies.

 

[Notabadsquad]

There's a difference between being "boring" and holding a lead.

Putting men behind the ball at home to the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc. and looking to keep possession for possession sake is boring and not needed. Luckily we don't do this.

Holding a lead when 3-2 up at home to Juventus in the Champions League, despite playing exciting football for 180 minutes is not "boring" - it's called game management.

If we played the same way every game with the personnel we have, we aren't going to get anywhere.

Mostly good points. We are getting somewhere though.

The 8 losses are inexplicable. Not even worth pondering how we can't even luck it.

And yes, he does need to not see closing or shutting a game down as negative.

We are inching towards a dynasty of competitiveness if he stays.

 

[TottsAmazeballs]

Poch is not a young manager he is 46, 1 year younger than Simeone and Guardiola and 2 years younger than Conte and no ever tries to claim they are younger managers. He has been a manager for close to a decade just how much more time and development does he need exactly?

Fair point. I was thinking about his need to learn more pragmatic tactics, but it’s a surprise how young the others are, too.

 

[Scottwallace15]

There's a difference between being "boring" and holding a lead.

Putting men behind the ball at home to the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc. and looking to keep possession for possession sake is boring and not needed. Luckily we don't do this.

Holding a lead when 3-2 up at home to Juventus in the Champions League, despite playing exciting football for 180 minutes is not "boring" - it's called game management.

If we played the same way every game with the personnel we have, we aren't going to get anywhere.

couldn't have put it better myself, fluid attacking football doesn't work all the time and poch doesn't realise that, it's exactly the reason liverpool will not win that UCL, they don't know how to shut up shop either as klopp is similar to poch in his total focus on attacking football at all times

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I'm not sure I buy this "Poch lacks the capacity to win big games" narrative that is peddled by the media and becomes accepted. What exactly does Poch say to the players to stop Dembele from losing the ball to Pogba? What does he say to make sure Davies gets the right side of Sanchez? Again what does he say to make sure Dembele tracks Herrera for the second goal? Or to stop Sanchez from losing the aerial battle with Lukaku? Or to make sure Dier's deflected shot hits the post and goes in rather than hits the post and comes out?

It's easy to draw a narrative from three games, but at the end of the day it is only three games. We have won or got results against good teams and/or when the pressure has been on us. Getting a point at Anfield in difficult circumstances. Winning at Chelsea. The win at Palace last season to keep us in the title race. Getting back into the Juve game. Sure, there's examples of the opposite as well beyond the three games, but if you think that Poch's doing something wrong, what exactly is it? No one seems able to say other than words like "big game management" or saying he should tweak the tactics, to what exactly, and why?

I'd say that whilst some of the criticisms may have a grain of truth, for instance maybe a lack of experience on the part of some of the players, losing yesterday is probably more to do with factors like:

- Kane not being match fit
- Dembele's fitness also being a long-term struggle and issue, he wasn't quite at it, when he is, he is unplayable. Yesterday he was more like the Dembele of the first half of the season. I think all to do with his fitness.
- Continually losing our best players due to financial reasons. Walker and Rose of last season haven't been replaced, we miss what they offered. Toby is and will be the same. As good as Sanchez is, a fit, committed Toby with Jan or in a back three makes a huge difference.
- The fact we are playing these games against good sides with good players
- Simply...individual mistakes, bad luck, the usual stuff that makes up a football game.